Curse

Racthoh · Nov 09, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Rank doesn't really show you have skill. Rank shows you were able to open up a fansite and read about which FoTM is working for people, then IWAY up to rank 3 and claim you are rank 5.

Great, so now we have a whole lot of players who only know how to use a shout and swing an axe. Quite frankly I'd prefer to stay a low rank and beat the snot out of the elitists who wouldn't take me because of a fancy number emote that I may or may not have. I've played with some damn good players, and their traits have shed off onto me, and while I may not be the best PvPer in the world, I can hold my own because of the environment I've been in.

To be honest, I wish that rank 3+ players were only allowed to play with players of their own rank. That way, all those IWAY bandwagon players would eventually come up against some real competition and have theirs handed to them time and time again. And best of all, their fame would never increase if they continue to rely on the same methods over and over again.

striderkaaru · Nov 09, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

That's a great dream, but in reality it is not practical at all to do so.

No one has time to take in 7 random strangers and then test them all out and drop them if they suck.

Rank helps to alleviate this problem in a practical way that people actually have enough time to do.

i would much rather have someone ask me for my build, give suggestions based on party needs, and talk to me about people's roles in the group rather than him asking me to type "/rank" or judging me based on a number next to my name.

communication > emote.

Pevil Lihatuh · Nov 10, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

lol true strider. After all if you ask someone their build and it sounds like rubbish, you have a fairly good idea they'll suck in pvp

Alternatively they could have copied a build guide if it sounds good. But y'know. "What skills/type of char are you" is surely a far better thing to ask than "Are you rank 3". maybe it should be separated so only ranks 1 - 3 in one arena, once you reach rank 4 you go to the next arena which is 4 - 6 etc etc. And if you wanna play against everyone just go to team arenas.

tomcruisejr · Nov 10, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

last time i checked, "good players" and "rank" are both different words / phrases.

face it, those who have the means to feel elite wanna be elite. /rank is helping them.

look at the posts of pvpers here. they love the rank system. but when some "noobish" groups using "noobish" builds beat them, whats the response?

"play real build", "noob", "FU"

our group using the noobish fotm build have mowed some guilds in the top 50, lambasted the r9+ groups and maligned those top quality ranger spikers. and yet a lil ggs.

elitism at its best

Digitalblast · Nov 10, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

/not signed.

I have a hard enough time being rank 0 and getting in a group. If they do anything like this i propose everyone starts from rank 0.

Vilaptca · Nov 10, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

i guarantee that most people who complain about not being able to get good groups due to lack of rank would not be able to give me a proper strategy for each and every map as well as detailed functions of each character and team build. and that is what rank helps you build up. trust me, if you just suck it up to rank 3 or 6, which is what i did along with many others, you will be able to play like you deserve that rank.

Of course people with no rank don't know the maps or every strategy. To expect them to is silly. But yes, if they just keep trying eventually they will get something. I think the best way to do it is to go with guildmates.

I myself having no rank, and very little want to play PvP would not like this. Eventually after I feel I have learned my characters well enough, I would like to try PvP.

Something like this would really keep the new players away. This happens in many games though, do we cater to the veterans or do we cater to the new players? I don't think this is something that would help either group.

I liked Racthoh's suggestion further up, that people of the same Rank should only be able to fight each other in groups.

romO · Nov 10, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

then there would be waiting times to proceed to maps like in gvg, as well as seperate hoh victories for each rank. i see a problem there ^^

scamPOR · Nov 10, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Rank is basically meaningless as is. Most Iway noobs are 3+ and cannot play anything else. Basically requiring new players to Iway to even get to r6. >.< fix plz Anet.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Nov 10, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

That's a great dream, but in reality it is not practical at all to do so.

No one has time to take in 7 random strangers and then test them all out and drop them if they suck.

Rank helps to alleviate this problem in a practical way that people actually have enough time to do.

Navaros, you specifically seem to be missing the point here. Having someone's rank next to their name will just cause more problems then it helps. All that will happen is anyone who has a good rank will completely ignore anyone who doesnt. No matter the reason. Whether they suck or not.

You were right originally, there are two camps here:

The people who play in the Tombs all the time, get a good ammount of Fame and get their rank up whether through real play time, or through Fame Farming builds.

And the people who havent PVP'd much outside the competition or team arena's, the people who havent even begun to even try to gain Rank and therefore have a big zero above their head.

The problem with your view is that it completely excludes any PVP newbies from actually getting in any good groups. You have no idea if they're good or not, and Rank isnt going to tell you jack. All its going to tell you is that this person was in a group that was good enough when he/she was in it that they got alot of Fame. And when we talk IWAY groups, or back with the old Spirit Spammers, that's not hard.

A User Name · Nov 10, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

/notsigned lol

I basically dont want a number next to my name. I'm a rank 2 112 fame with really bad luck. I've been to the hall 5 times which is more than most rank 3's but in 4 of those times by sheer bad luck our groups lost 1-2 ppl leaving us (lag issues, kicked, ect) and so we lost those battles. im prolbaly more xp'd than some of the rank 3's but i find it hard to get into groups sometimes becuase of that bad luck and lack of emote. By putting that number next to my name could really damage new players trying to get into groups.

jonnybegood · Nov 10, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

they added the fame and rank into the game for exactly the reason the OP says it's therefor.so i agree with the OP
in that it is a undeveloped system. hopefully it is upgraded in a furure updat or in CHAP2

now im not saying that it the other side of the argument is wrong,because it's not , it's a opinion on the matter. and neither side is right or wrong. it's just the opinion i agree with.

SincorpDeath · Nov 10, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I think that some people take rank a little too seriously. I don't want to sound "noobzorish" or whatever the hell, but here's my 2 cents. I'm a HUGE fan of the PvE, and i actually enjoy farming to see what i get. But recently I've seen the deer head emote, and thought to myself, "I'd like that." Well, i asked around about it, and found out you need to do tombs and HOH to get it. I thought, meh, well, i'm pretty good at arena's with all sorts of characters, (in yaks i went 12 wins with 3 necs and a monk, me being a nec, none of which were above lvl 12), so i figured i could try some HoH. This is about 3 days ago, I go into dragon's lair and walk into Tombs, only to see this being spammed by 4 seperate groups "LOOKING FOR IWAY WARRIORS! OMGZORS, NEED 2 MORE FOR IWAY" well, i think, fark this, i'm not gonna make myself a w/r and change my entire build to fit some stupid mold. For 20 minutes, i couldn't find a group to take me, so i go "STARTING GROUP FOR FUN" and in about 3 minutes, we filled up with a decent variety of warriors, 2 monks, necs, mesmers, and eles. Turns out most of us were really new at this, so we went in and tried our best. We DID die after about the first group, but we had FUN. We put up a good fight for a random 2 minute PUG, and we all had a decent time. Looks like i've been rambling, but still, stop being rank --W-word--s <- didn't want GO RED ENGINE GO---like kids in CSS (CounterStrike Source), and play for fun, not rank. Just my 2 cents.

Almighty Zi · Nov 10, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

In my mind, the hall of heroes has always been a place where a guild or any party that groups together regularly strives to consistently win battles and hold the altar in the hall in order to gain recognition and also gain some satisfaction from creating a good build.

Rank does not fit in with this, in my opinion. Rank instead motivates players to gain recognition simply by playing more. This is why we have IWAY and other such FotM builds. There's no way the majority of IWAY builds can hold the hall and the only purpose of the build is to win as many matches as possible to farm fame and rank before being knocked out by a well put together group. Rinse and repeat until you have your deer, wolf, whatever.

OK, so rank shows that a person has invested a lot of time in PVP and for this reason they should be better players than newcomers, however, rank does not show how a player has invested their playing time, have they wisely been learning skills, builds and strategies or have they been blindly following proven fame farming builds? In my opinion, the best way to assess a player is to talk to them. Putting each player's rank next to his/her name is just going to validate the notion that rank is important and that it's a good indication of a player's ability - which it isn't.

Dralspire · Nov 10, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

... The game should not cater to those are incapable of getting a good rank. Rather, it should cater to those who are skilled and dedicated enough to have a good rank.

While I agree that length of time played is directly correlated to rank, I don't see why this game should not cater to the joy of all, newcomers and veterans alike. True experience does not manifest itself in "5how m3 ur RANK n00b", but rather in an ability to form successful teams by assigning roles on the basis of strengths and weaknesses.

Anyway, IWAY on ...

PS: /notsigned

Santanus_Perro · Nov 10, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Yeah, it basically boils down into 2 camps:

1. Those incapable of getting a good rank, hate the rank system

2. Those who have a good rank, love the rank system

I think the devs should put more stock in the camp who loves the rank system. Everyone had to endure the "I can only get into crappy parties!" grind to get to rank 6 when they first started out. They they broke free from that with perservance and dedication which eventually led them to become rank 6. Those players shouldn't have their achievements lessened simply because less-dedicated, less-skilled players outnumber them.

The game should not cater to those are incapable of getting a good rank. Rather, it should cater to those who are skilled and dedicated enough to have a good rank.

"Those players shouldn't have their achievements lessened simply because less-dedicated, less-skilled players outnumber them."

You mean the same way all the PvPers were hating on the PvEers for dedicating themselves to the grind to get the good weapons and upgrades to compete with a pve made character against the custom made PvP characters?

PvEers felt like their dedication was lessened when the whole buying of unlocks with fame points was introduced. PvEers worked extremely hard to unlock elites, to get upgrades, etc. In essence, the PvPers were catered to. If you disagree with my assessment, then your argument doesn't hold water.

Akathrielah · Nov 10, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

To the OP : Great Idea, makes the process of finding a group overall a lot simpler.

To all of the people complaining about rank : Get.Over.It. Everyone had to start at rank 0, and unfortunately no, you aren't better than that rank 6/9/Top 50 guild player just because you beat the PvE game with your X/Y once. IWAY used to be good for faction farming oh, a month ago, if that. If you can't beat IWAY repeatedly then you shouldn't be whining about rank in the first place.

Best piece of advice would be to get a group of people you PvP regularly with and form a guild with them, or at the very least keep them on your friends list. That way you have a group of people that are relatively competant that you can play with, with whom you are familar(i.e. play style) with at the same time.
I've said this over and over again, get it through your heads folks.

Kool Pajamas · Nov 10, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

/NOT signed

Rank is for people that play too much. Or at very least only play PvP. I mostly play PvE but I know how to play PvP. I'm still rank 1 in 2 months since I started PvP; Not because I'm bad, but because I dont play often, plus on top of that dont play PvP everytime that I am on. Some kid that goes and plays IWAY 24/7 for a week, could probably be rank 3+ in no time. Thats not how I play and I shouldnt be punished for that.

Navaros · Nov 10, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

The problem with your view is that it completely excludes any PVP newbies from actually getting in any good groups. You have no idea if they're good or not, and Rank isnt going to tell you jack. All its going to tell you is that this person was in a group that was good enough when he/she was in it that they got alot of Fame. And when we talk IWAY groups, or back with the old Spirit Spammers, that's not hard.

You are quite incorrect on this point. Whilst Rank is by no means a foolproof indicator, it does indeed tell you things.

Looking at a R0, it is a logical assumption that most likely he would be a bad PVP player, a liability to the team, and not worth taking. I, as a higher ranked player who had put in the blood, sweat, and tears to claw my way up the ranking system, should have every right to make a decision based on that likelihood.

By the same token, if someone is R6+, then the likelihood will be that he is a good player and worth giving a chance to.

Getting R6 with IWAY isn't "hard" persay, but putting up with that sort of grind and losing again and again a few rounds in, every time, only to have to reform the party again as most people leave, certainly takes a lot of mental fortitude to put up with. On that basis, I would respect a player who got R6 with IWAY.

As for "it will tell you they got a lot of Fame" - exactly. That's the whole point. And it makes sense. For the most part, those who have got a lot of Fame were able to do so because they got into good parties on a consistent basis. If someone is a sucky player, then good parties are not to take him on their team consistently. Therefore it stands to reason that usually, only good players would have a lot of Fame.

Yes, you are right that Spirit Spammers are an exception to this. Why Spirit Spamming was not nerfed before Retail, well only the devs know that.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 10, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

why wouldn't u play iway if you didn't have much rank? Go and play orders necro with them for a while, that takes more skill than w/r. You get hunted first, so you are learning the ability to deal with being the prime target. You have to hold the orb on burial grounds so you'll again be a strong target. Controlling the door lever etc.
All these things need to be learn't and IWAY isn't such a bad start. Sure the build is basically hack n' slash for w/r, but for necros I would think it's a nice starting point for getting into PvP. Also for trapping skills it's not a bad way to learn PvP trapping as well.
Got to start somewhere, may as well start with the popular builds while your experience and confidence grows enough to branch into more complex builds and team work situations.