Curse

KuTeBaka · Sep 17, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

GEE, I guess being able to sit in a spot indefinately being hit by 4 lvl 20+ axates which hit for only 2 damage each was perfectly planned into the game.
/sacasm

Quote:

exercise restraint and employ imagination

...
By the way, Don't move, but move foward.
How can you exercise retraint and employ imagination at the same time?

huh · Sep 17, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

I don't get why people think they need oodles of money. In this game and in real life. I just don't get it. You don't.

Nobody needs anything really, aside from the basic necessities.
The keyword is "want".
People want anything and everything. Its just a human "flaw".
First rule of economics - using limited resources to satisfy unlimited wants as best as possible.

And to all those who say something along the lines of "soloing isn't the way the game is meant to be played", seriously, who's dictating how we should play the game?
Not me, not Anet, and most definitely not you.
If Anet was hell bent on people playing the way you reasoned (i.e. not solo), they could very simply implement a minimum party rule when you leave a town (this idea is not mine, read it somewhere before).

Soloing is part of the game. So is playing in a party. Its up to the player to decide how they want to play it.

huh · Sep 17, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

GEE, I guess being able to sit in a spot indefinately being hit by 4 lvl 20+ axates which hit for only 2 damage each was perfectly planned into the game.

Yes I would say it was.
Otherwise, why in the world would there a focus item that reduces health (50 for that matter, equivalent to 2 and a half levels)?
Who in their right mind would ever want to use something like that?
I guess Anet wanted to see if people were creative enough.
Perhaps what they didn't see was people exploiting, for lack of a better word, the invinci-monk build.
And really, I don't understand why they nerfed the build.
Everyone could do it. No wait, let me think. Yup. Everyone could do it.
Who's stopping you from doing it?
The high prices of items would drop once everybody realised that they could do it too, and prices would return to normal (i.e. nothing more than 100k, an assumption since thats the maximum amount you can carry with you).

The people who whine about prices and stuff are just too lazy to make the build but yet WANT the best stuff, the rarest stuff etc etc. Yeah I was too lazy too. Thats why I don't have a monk. I'd just prefer to buy stuff off them for cheap and resell.

Think about it. Pre-patch scenario:
Average price for sword pommel of fortitude +20 was about 500g or 1k at the most.
Average price for sword pommel of fortitude +30 was about 130k or so.
If you're lazy to farm and whine about the price, does +10 health really make that much of a difference?
If your health ever went down to 10, you'd probably be dead before you even saw it hit that low. Yes, there are exceptions, but very very seldom.
Get a collector's sword, slap in a +20 health pommel, and you're good to go. Sure, you're disadvantaged, but not to an extreme level.
Same goes for runes. Major Vigor cost like 2-3k (can't really remember) whereas Superior Vigor cost 32k or so. Thats a 9 health difference.

Whiners are probably the people who WANT, not need, the best but are too lazy to do it. Or maybe just too busy to do it. Either way, you don't NEED it.

I personally use green items, cos they're cheap, and they serve the purpose. Sure I could use gold stuff to feel good. Whether I want to is another story.
Same for armor, I could use collector's armor which is almost free, but I prefer to use Grotto armor. Do they give me any extra protection? No. I just like it.

/rant

P.S. I don't PvP, so all this refers to PvE only. And don't tell me this game is not about PvE and its only about PvP. Thats just dumb. A simple but very fitting word.

Wraith_ · Sep 19, 2005, 04:49 AM // 04:49

I think the problem lies in that they are focusing on what is messing up the PVP side by nerfing the PVE side. Why are they making lomar's pass harder? Because people run there at level 9, get drok armor, max damage weapons and run back to ascalon city arena and fight with it, owning everyone who's not stacked like they are.

This has nothing to do with being able to get run to Droks, grab some armor, (be it collectors, or getting all the way to grotto or citadel) and play through the rest of your game with some seriously kick ass armor. It has nothing to do with spending hours outside the arenas trying to unlock runes for your PVP characters.

Farming is about cash. Everyone says "Why do you need money? I've never needed money"
I'll tell you why I want money:

I have 4 characters, 3 are level 20 ascended, one is brand new, replacing a level 20 ascended that I grew tired of.

The new character will no doubt have armour, and hopfully good armour sooner than later.

This is Drok scar pattern armor, 60 armor, +6 bonus energy:

It's not that hot. Attrcia deservers better.

Fissure of Woe Armor. How nice? Very nice.
Cost? Right now about 1.6 million gold bought.

"Go do the missions in FOW and UW to get your ecto and shards" Says A-net.

That'd be nice, however I can't take hench, and you've made it so hard to do UW now that I'd die even if I could take them. I cannot rely on the general moronic PUG which I find less effective than henchmen.
Word to your mother: I worked my way through Ice caves of sorrow and Iron mines with my 11th level ranger with only henchmen, then to Grotto.

Why else would I need money? skills. All my skills now cost 1 plat. If I want a new build, it can cost me more than black dye, or one ecto: 8k.

So, let's work out my figures, and look to solutions:

1.6 million gold x4 characters (I don't do PVP)
400 odd skill at 1 platinum each x4
100 platinum x 4 for a good weapon for each character, or a few interations of green weapons for differnt builds...

That's 8,400,000 gold over 4 characters.

If I play with a group? 200g - 1 plat/ 2 hours. Without a black dye drop or an inevitable Sup Absorption, that's thousands of hours of play to get ONE character just where I want it. Hundreds I'd understand however, that's not the way it is.

How to beat farming:

Scaled drops{as said above} so that teaming up is better. Increase gold drop rate by 1.5% each member above 2. Run with the idea from the chests where each time a monster is killed, it drops something different for everyone. Maybe a little gold, or an item, however worth your while to go in groups rather than solo.

Financial encouragement for doing missions and quests.

Seperate PVP Characters and PVE Characters. Still let PVE characters do GVG and HOH, however eliminate the ascalon arena, or filter non low level armor. Don't punish the PVE characters for the abuse of the armor, but encourage the PVPers to complete the game and play it properly or simply play PVP only.

Put the priests of balthazar back into the towns, and allow them to trade faction for items and skills for PVE characters. This will encourage players who play only PVE to do this, and stablize the economy a little further. This will also fix the problem with farming for upgrade components and runes. Say my warrior needs Sup Absoprtion! 85k? That's a lot of cash. Instead of farming for 22 hours (I make 1k/15 mins farming roughly) Rather than do that, I can spend 4 hours in the PVP arena, get some faction and an item that I really want. -That would make me happy as a player-.

Of course put restrictions on this. Don't let level 10 characters use this to unlock things in droks. Only allow characters who beat the game to use the Priests in Droknars. This alone will add emphasis to the need and desire to beat the game, instead of getting to Ember light camp, skill capping and saying forget it.

Thank you for reading this far.

Good night.

Mashu · Sep 19, 2005, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Guys, please rate this thread 5, as it increases the chances of someone looking at it.

Thanks

aron searle · Sep 19, 2005, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Put the priests of balthazar back into the towns, and allow them to trade faction for items and skills for PVE characters. This will encourage players who play only PVE to do this, and stablize the economy a little further. This will also fix the problem with farming for upgrade components and runes. Say my warrior needs Sup Absoprtion! 85k? That's a lot of cash. Instead of farming for 22 hours (I make 1k/15 mins farming roughly) Rather than do that, I can spend 4 hours in the PVP arena, get some faction and an item that I really want. -That would make me happy as a player-.

Of course put restrictions on this. Don't let level 10 characters use this to unlock things in droks. Only allow characters who beat the game to use the Priests in Droknars. This alone will add emphasis to the need and desire to beat the game, instead of getting to Ember light camp, skill capping and saying forget it.

/signed

^J^ · Sep 19, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by wraith_

Seperate PVP Characters and PVE Characters. Still let PVE characters do GVG and HOH, however eliminate the ascalon arena, or filter non low level armor. Don't punish the PVE characters for the abuse of the armor, but encourage the PVPers to complete the game and play it properly or simply play PVP only.

Put the priests of balthazar back into the towns, and allow them to trade faction for items and skills for PVE characters. This will encourage players who play only PVE to do this, and stablize the economy a little further. This will also fix the problem with farming for upgrade components and runes. Say my warrior needs Sup Absoprtion! 85k? That's a lot of cash. Instead of farming for 22 hours (I make 1k/15 mins farming roughly) Rather than do that, I can spend 4 hours in the PVP arena, get some faction and an item that I really want. -That would make me happy as a player-.

Of course put restrictions on this. Don't let level 10 characters use this to unlock things in droks. Only allow characters who beat the game to use the Priests in Droknars. This alone will add emphasis to the need and desire to beat the game, instead of getting to Ember light camp, skill capping and saying forget it.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

/signed

Khan · Sep 19, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

mm sure i don't really like soloing but i agree with the better drops for groups

Wraith_ · Sep 25, 2005, 10:18 AM // 10:18

*bump*

jinxtwitchyboo · Sep 27, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

/signed

Anet seems to be digging themselves in a hole here. Maybe they should take some of their economy equations and put them to work in the real world. They recently hit the 1 million mark of purchases world-wide. That's a lot of gamers that set up an account. There is no monthly fee. Let me say that again... There is NO monthly fee. So the only revenue comes from new purchases. Their only other way to make money is with the planned expansions. People need to be attatched to their accounts and characters long enough to have interest to purchase the expansions. Right now there is nothing attatching a player to his/her account when they get bored EXCEPTs the good weapons they are striving for or saving up to get the better looking armor. What would you do if you were them? Would you let the players accomplish these goals so they would get bored wondering "What else is there?" No, you start taking away the little things that make playing fun instead. That way they get bored quicker and finally just get fed up and buy WoW. Don't worry about the people that get bored after 600 hours of gameplay, two 14 year olds will buy the game the second the seasoned player quits. How much longer do you think that will provide revenue ANet? It's time to start thinking about us Guild Wars veterans who will be deciding whether or not to buy the expansion in the next 6 months. What are you going to do for US until then? Nerf the game some more? WAKE UP!

When we go farm, whether it be solo or with henchies it's like hitting a giant STFU button and it lets us REALLY enjoy the PvE section of the game. People just hang around towns complaining about pointless crap and bragging about being Godly when they can barely click a mouse button. The real reason people keep acting like smacktards in this game is that ANet KEEPS REWARDING THEM. I could give a crap about the "skill balancing" since nothing they've done to the skills has effected me (now I'm really getting into the complainers' mindset). But stop messing with the one thing in the game that I really truly enjoyed... farming. That's right, I like to farm. A LOT of people like to farm. The problem is that when a large group of people are happy with the way things are going, no one tends to speak out and demand changes... We can't be taken into account when they look at the big picture if we're not causing a fuss apparently.

There is one critical flaw in the way that suggestions are being taken. If you guys keep just skimming through other peoples' forums, you're going to see a lot of complaining going on. You're going to see A LOT of yelling and ranting. That's what people have been using forums for since the invention of BBS. All you end up seeing is an Extremely small section of gamers that have the free time to complain. The real players are too busy PLAYING the game for that. How about making a page on the Guild Wars Official website to post surveys for players to answer? Could you guys put down the nerf bat long enough to really make some contact with us and field us a few ideas once and a while? We would higly appreciate the chance to answer questions and make some suggestions when we don't have something to complain about.

We like your game, we play it a lot, we ALL have an opinion, not just the pompous bastards that like to ruin other peoples' fun. If you wanna know how people will respond to something, just ask. Don't just listen to a couple of loudmouths, ask the REAL players.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Sep 27, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

I agree completely to the fact that A-net needs to stop nerfing builds just because people complain about them. There is no reason to nerf these solo builds, as their main purpose is to farm and acquire items. Yet, A-net said that this game was not going to be focused on items, rather, skill was more involved. So how do they justify nerfing everythig to disrupt the flow of items into the economy?

A-net has no clue how to keep a game runnng, and how to keep the playerbase happy. Reading complaints everywhere to base their nerfs on is a pitiful way to keep a game on track. Complaints grow, and a-net thinks that they should nerf something because people are able to accomplish something by themself.
Sure, this game is team based, but we should have the option to fight things by ourselves, and throw out some elbow grease by ourselves, can't we?

A-net nerfing solo builds is basically them telling us not to go it alone, and that we should only play this game with other persons. They may not admit it, but subconsciously they are with the actions they have taken thus far.
They need to stop basing all of their nerfs on 'flavor of the month' builds, with them waiting for someone to come up with some ingenious build; only to be reduced to the flare spamming elementalist in Ring of Fire-the build becomes that pathetic.

Come on A-net, play the game, understand it, and gain a different viepoint other than the ones who start these rants about how much a build sucks and why they should nerf it because the person is too lazy to counter it, or come up with something more effective.

/signed

Alone) · Sep 27, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

/unsigned.

I have this username for a reason. There are times when I can not stand other players. It's not just because they can't listen, don't agree, I just find it's too much hassle. However, nerfing solo builds is their descision. And I will still love to play the game.

I disagree with those bashing on ANet. They made the game. They have the right to do whatever they want to it. If people don't like it, stop playing it, or just live with it. Sorry, but it's true. And I'm sure they do hear people complaining about nerfing solo builds. But they have their reasons to do what they want to do.

Would be nice if they gave reasons.

MaglorD · Sep 27, 2005, 07:21 AM // 07:21

/unsigned

PB had to be nerfed. It made smiting monks far too powerful in UW, something totally out of balance, and hence exploitable. I agree with the changes made by Anet to restore balance. There is room for more improvements.

One and Two · Sep 27, 2005, 07:34 AM // 07:34

You guys bitch as if Anet is the worst company ever. I guess you've never played another MMO.

If you tell me I'm a fanboy cus this game is free, go f*ck yourself. Ever try the economy in Diablo 2? SOJ ftw!

WoW has a continually degenerating economy. They are much much worse than us...

Then you can go on Ebay and search Everquest. Or Lineage 2. WTF?

Sol_Vie · Sep 27, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

To a degree I have to agree with the original idea. However, most of my agreement comes from my opinion that the economy is total bunk. When I see someone selling an item for over 100k then see them sell another item that isn't max by one point and getting not even half for it... come on... that's the epitome of the title "Gold Wars". On the other hand, finding gold items all the time would reduce the specialness of it, which would suck. Eh I'm stuck in the middle on this.

Venus · Sep 27, 2005, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr3sH

Alot of you guys complain about noobs, and saying that my farming monk was soloed. You would not be complanining if you had the mind to make your own solo farming build. You all whine because they shutdown the most common form of solo farming, which was distrubuted all over forums, and people like you mooched off of it. Now when it's been nerfed, you braindead people have no idea what to do. Ever thought of using that head of yours and creating your own solo farm build? I created my own build after just half an hour of skill analyzation that can solo UW, and it doesnt require a monk.

The real noobs are people like you, who have played for quite a while, yet are unable to formulate new builds and come on forums to cry when the build you and every other monk stole from the net is nerfed.

Aye, I agree

EndobioticChaos · Sep 27, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaglorD

/unsigned

PB had to be nerfed. It made smiting monks far too powerful in UW, something totally out of balance, and hence exploitable. I agree with the changes made by Anet to restore balance. There is room for more improvements.

Yeah, that's one way of looking at it. A very narrow-minded, ignorant way of looking at it. No, protective bond did not have to be nerfed. It didn't even solve the percieved "problem". They still ended up having to put in enchantment removal monsters to keep people from solo-farming UW. So what did they gain by nerfing Protective Bond? Absolutely NOTHING. All they did was render a skill completely uselss. That's it. No ballancing, no fixing, nothing like that. And ballancing PvE is a totally different animal from PvP. In PvP, when things are out of ballance, the party on the underpowered side is directly affected by those who use the overpowered skills. The same is NOT true in PvE. If Mr. A makes a monk to solo-farm UW while Mr. B decides to use a more difficult Ranger build, Mr. A's monk does not make the farming any more difficult or less enjoyable for Mr. B.

I agree with the original poster, to some extent. I think they should have removed the need for farming, but my suggestion for how to do it is entirely different. In my opinion, all the best items (Fissure Armor, Runes, Weapons, etc.) should be rewards for quests, not random drops. This would make them rewards for skill rather than grinding or buying money off eBay.

Charcoal Ann · Sep 27, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

you expect ANet to nerf your Ego? that is the only cause of your need to farm. you don't need uber gear.

(i spent half an hour writing a massive post on this subject which i lost to the ether)

invinci-monks took no skill. oh sure you say NOW that it did. at the time people put in the thread 'why i love the invince-monk' thread that they could go AFK for hours and mobs attacking them had no effect. that they could read a book while farming. skill? concentration?
try some builds that DO require skill and concentration.

also why do you need to farm if you have 40k for equipment before you can start farming? 40k will but you all the equipment you need.

pyrohex · Sep 27, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Of course no one needs buttloads of gold to play effectively, but wanting something exerts far more pull. I admit, I'm a PvE'r. I want my characters to look good, I want them to be flashy. Showing off? That's exactly it. Contrary to most of your misbegotten stereotypes of WhammoN00bHarharIhavbestwepinansheeld, most players play to be able show off. Perhaps they may not show off actively, but passively.

Customization and personalization is one of the most effective ways to bring people into a gaming community.

If you really want farming to end, you can all suggest that ANet remove all parts of the game that include customization:
1) Make all armors look exactly the same, but keep the different attributes.
2) Make all weapons look the same.
3) Remove dyes from the game.
4) Give all weapons the same stats.

How many of you would still play? No farming, no screwed up markets. Oh wait, it would be screwed up - nevermind that. Whether you admit it or not, you will only spend your hard-earned gold (yes, hard-earned) on items that you like. Whether you like it because of its mods, or because of its looks, doesn't matter. Fact is, you spent money so you could customize.

So yes, if you want to get rid of farming, get rid of all incentive to farm. No customization! Hurray! You've gotten your wish, and a heck of a lot more baggage along with it.

Before any of you make any further replies, get this into your heads. Want is far more important than need. I would not play this game if my wants could not be met (either in a short amount of time, or after a great deal of time). Likewise, you would not play this game if your want of entertainment, or your wish to accomplish some goal in the game kept you going. No one needs to do anything, just want.

Charcoal Ann · Sep 27, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

if you were to get the wish of 'no need to farm'.
there would be compaints FROM THE FARMING crowd along the lines of:

all my time and effort wasted, spent weeks doing such and such for my fissure armor and now nubs can get it after a weekends play.

if you want to customise your character oh so much then there is an almost infinite number of ways to get the money. try to expunge thoughts of invinci-monks from your minds. think of a new way. a way that (god forbid) requires skill.

getting fantastic items from quests won't work well IMO. it is impossible to create a quest that will not be either impossible or easy. once one person of each class has done them everyone will be able to do them. everyone will have everything and everyone will be happy. yes? no.

everyone will be the same. is that what you want?

ANet should allow greater depth of character individuality. this would minimise the need for over expensive armor to set yourself apart.