Curse

MSecorsky · Nov 22, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

And the underworld will beat a path to your door.

Seems to be an influx of trappers of questionable quality in ToA these days... so how about a trapper thread dedicated to pointing them the right way? I'll start with my personal build, we'll go from there...

Skills:

Barbed trap | Spike trap | Dust trap | Flame trap | Serpents Quickness | Whirling Defense | Slot reserved for spirit needed | Rebirth

Attributes, 15 expertise, 16 wilderness survival. Carrying a staff, no need for marksmanship, rest of the points are in Protection, solely for rebirth.

Equipped with an Insightful staff, giving +14 total energy.

With 15 exp, I don't run out of juice when QZ and EW are up. (Makes taking the necro along obsolete already)

Big Tip! NEVER launch serpents quickness until QZ is up! If you wait for QZ to be up, then at the same time Serpents is expiring it's recharged for instant spamming. Otherwise, there's a considerable delay between times you can have SQ up.

Thoughts, additions, insights?

Medion · Nov 22, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Barbed Trap| Spike Trap| Flame trap| Dust Trap| Any spirit which needs to be taken| Rez Signet| Throw Dirt| Ward Agains Melee(WAM)|

Although Throw Dirt And WAM don't make your traps better or quicker, I use them to save my teammates. In any trapper-team I have been it has saved the live of at least one person, many times it has saved more people.

When going in with a trapper-team, I would say you at least need:

R/Mo (2?) for rezzing
R/E for WAM
R/W for pulling if (s)he uses the right skills
Others can be used for pulling too but a R/W can be a little more effective

Then take some other R/##

Always, take one person extra than needed unless you know no-one will leave. Because with 3 trappers it is really difficult. (I would advise to take 5 as I like 4-man trapper groups better.)

Equipment:
Expertise and Wilderness at highest or at least at 15

(P.S. Is this the good forum for build-discussion?)

MSecorsky · Nov 22, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

(P.S. Is this the good forum for build-discussion?)

Ah crap. I think you're right and I got the forums wrong. Well, the powers that be will rectify if needed.

mortalis doleo · Nov 22, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

you guys are pointing those poor rangers in the wrong direction...

4 R/Me
2 monk healers
1 monk prot
1 either a warrior for relics, a warder or whatever... could be another trapper.

R/Me:
1. spike trap
2. barbed trap
3. flame trap
4. dust trap
5. dryder's defence
6. mantra of resolve
7. spirit that is needed (not that many spirits are needed) or serpent'd quickness
8. res sig

one of the trappers takes escape for relic runs, if a warrior isnt there to help.

the rangers use staffs that have +15 energy, not +14, and use druid's armor.
i hope the rest is self-explanatory...

Sol_Vie · Nov 22, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Woah woah there Mortalis. Different build entirely. The build the first two guys are talking about are for 4 man UW trapping- not 8 man runs.

The builds previous mentioned are right on, though you can get more than +14 energy. +19 I believe is the best, using a certain staff mentioned a couple weeks ago in a similar thread.

I use pretty much the exact same build as MSecrosky said... it works great.

MSecorsky · Nov 22, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

On the +14 staff... I've yet to find a PvE +5 Insightful staff head. The +4 I found is well worn, however. But yes, when I can find better I'll upgrade.

Sol is dead on too, I'm referring to your basic 3 - 5 man smite UW run trappers. I pack whirling, for example, because I like rounding up the smites for the awaiting barbeque, but someone that will definitely not be on round-up duties could easily pack a little something extra.

The main reason for the thread is due to the increase in 'young' rangers that seem to be constantly looking for info on how to do these runs. Hopefully, it helps someone.

Mahanaxar · Nov 22, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

my build:

qz
ew
rebirth
whirling defense
healing spring
flame trap
barbed trap
dust trap

ws 12+1+3
exp I don't remember, but is not maxed, because i put some points in beastmastery for ew. I always take both spirits because there are too many leavers and i wanna be sure.
Whirling defense to lure smites and pack them well together.

Druidic armor and a staff for 10 extra energy points.

With friends I usually go with 3.
Pugs 4 or 5 people.

M3lk0r · Nov 23, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

QZ + EW, the 3 non elite traps and an Evade skils. your set. I have a +15 energy green staff and dont really need it unless something goes wrong and I get DP.
Use to do LOADS of 3 man groups untill I didnt get even a single purple/gold/ecto for 15+ runs

lishi · Nov 23, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

you guys are pointing those poor rangers in the wrong direction...

4 R/Me
2 monk healers
1 monk prot
1 either a warrior for relics, a warder or whatever... could be another trapper.

R/Me:
1. spike trap
2. barbed trap
3. flame trap
4. dust trap
5. dryder's defence
6. mantra of resolve
7. spirit that is needed (not that many spirits are needed) or serpent'd quickness
8. res sig

one of the trappers takes escape for relic runs, if a warrior isnt there to help.

the rangers use staffs that have +15 energy, not +14, and use druid's armor.
i hope the rest is self-explanatory...

this is HoH build , they was speaking of UW farm build

Garumn · Nov 23, 2005, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Here ye go a lot better vuild whcih is perfect for a trppaer

Oath Shot
BT
DT
FT
QZ
EW
Apply Poison
WD

and for +15 Energy use a Handsmasher(mesmer green staff)

MSecorsky · Nov 23, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garumn

Here ye go a lot better vuild whcih is perfect for a trppaer

Oath Shot
BT
DT
FT
QZ
EW
Apply Poison
WD

and for +15 Energy use a Handsmasher(mesmer green staff)

That's interesting... does apply poison also work on traps?

And where's your rez!

Garumn · Nov 23, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Lol y shud AP work on traps?It works witha bow.
ANd i never bring a rez....

MSecorsky · Nov 23, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garumn

Lol y shud AP work on traps?It works witha bow.
ANd i never bring a rez....

Apply Poison - Preparation For 24 seconds, enemies struck by your physical attacks become poisoned for 3-13 seconds.

Barbed and Spike do physical damage. Would be interesting. Note... it doesn't work only with a bow. Swords, axes, etc.

Not bringing a rez for smite runs immediately excludes you from any parties I'm forming. No desire to work as a part of a team, you're not needed.

Garumn · Nov 23, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

erm i dont work as a team, I solo them:PPPP thats waht i was trying to tell you all the way:P

Dmitri3 · Nov 23, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Apply Poison - Preparation For 24 seconds, enemies struck by your physical attacks become poisoned for 3-13 seconds.

Barbed and Spike do physical damage. Would be interesting. Note... it doesn't work only with a bow. Swords, axes, etc.

Not bringing a rez for smite runs immediately excludes you from any parties I'm forming. No desire to work as a part of a team, you're not needed.

Note that it says Attacks. Spells, signets etc. aren't attacks.

MSecorsky · Nov 23, 2005, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garumn

erm i dont work as a team, I solo them:PPPP thats waht i was trying to tell you all the way:P

Ah, gotcha. You need the solo thread (there is one). That explains the lack of rez, as well as the need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmitri3

Note that it says Attacks. Spells, signets etc. aren't attacks.

It could be argued that they're indirect physical attacks, but that's neither here nor there.

It would be interesting if apply poison would work on traps. But if it doesn't, well, nothing's changed.

striderkaaru · Nov 23, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

solo and team trapping are two completely different things. garumn, i believe that this thread is meant to help those new to uw trapping. considering that they are new, i doubt that they will be ready for solo trapping yet.

with that said, the build that msecorsky posted is good and is actually the same one i use. i would also like to give a few tips.

#1 - 16/15 ws/exp?
to put it simply, it's not necessary. it helps to have them that high, but it isn't absolutely necessary. i duo trap uw with a guildie, and we both have our stats only at 14/13.

#2 - how many trappers?
two skilled trappers can do it with extreme precision and are able to kill even the aatxe instantly with a full trap set. knowing that, 3 is the ideal number to have, as the 3rd trapper allows a little bit of room for error. 4-5 man groups are good for beginners and comfortable trapping. 6+ is just overkill.

regarding #1 and #2, anyone forming a 4-5 man trap group and absolutely requires you to have 16 ws is a noob or elitist trapper, and you most likely do not want to be in his group anyway. join someone else's group if you only have 12-14 ws.

#3 - spirits
the only spirits you will ever need are qz (quickening zephyr) and ew (energizing wind). eoe (edge of extinction) is sometimes good for laughs. all other spirits are unnnecessary. you have no idea how many times i have seen an "experienced" trapper put up winnowing WHILE we were trapping. what does winnowing do while you are trapping? absolutely nothing. qz and ew is all you need.

#4 - stack or spread?
this completely depends on how you pull. with a proper pull, stacking is infinitely better, because it allows all of the traps to hit all of the targets. by stacking traps and standing on top of them, you can instantly fry anything, including aatxe. this is especially true since the aoe update makes the aatxe run from traps.

MSecorsky · Nov 23, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

solo and team trapping are two completely different things. garumn, i believe that this thread is meant to help those new to uw trapping. considering that they are new, i doubt that they will be ready for solo trapping yet.

with that said, the build that msecorsky posted is good and is actually the same one i use. i would also like to give a few tips.

#1 - 16/15 ws/exp?
to put it simply, it's not necessary. it helps to have them that high, but it isn't absolutely necessary. i duo trap uw with a guildie, and we both have our stats only at 14/13.

#2 - how many trappers?
two skilled trappers can do it with extreme precision and are able to kill even the aatxe instantly with a full trap set. knowing that, 3 is the ideal number to have, as the 3rd trapper allows a little bit of room for error. 4-5 man groups are good for beginners and comfortable trapping. 6+ is just overkill.

regarding #1 and #2, anyone forming a 4-5 man trap group and absolutely requires you to have 16 ws is a noob or elitist trapper, and you most likely do not want to be in his group anyway. join someone else's group if you only have 12-14 ws.

#3 - spirits
the only spirits you will ever need are qz (quickening zephyr) and ew (energizing wind). eoe (edge of extinction) is sometimes good for laughs. all other spirits are unnnecessary. you have no idea how many times i have seen an "experienced" trapper put up winnowing WHILE we were trapping. what does winnowing do while you are trapping? absolutely nothing. qz and ew is all you need.

#4 - stack or spread?
this completely depends on how you pull. with a proper pull, stacking is infinitely better, because it allows all of the traps to hit all of the targets. by stacking traps and standing on top of them, you can instantly fry anything, including aatxe. this is especially true since the aoe update makes the aatxe run from traps.

Let me bounce a couple questions off your noggin and see what sticks, if I may...

Unless you're the one carrying EW, where would you use the extra points if not in Exp/WS? The reason I go with 15 exp is that I've found that, with QZ, EW and SQ all running, that's the level I can trap like a madman without ever running out of juice. At 14, there are moments when I get the Chirp of No Energy. I'm sure less points in WS would still be effective for the traps, but the real reason for the 16 in WS (and this is a trade secret, tell everyone!) is that when QZ and EW go up, if you hit SQ, it will run out right about the exact time it's recharged, so your entire trap cycle will have SQ up the entire time. With less than 16 in WS, there's a downtime for SQ, unless you happen to hit it after QZ is up but before EW is (although in this case you lose a few seconds of time when both spirits are alive).

Agree on the three trapper groups. Effective, fun and profitable.

Winnowing... why not cast it while everyone else is casting spirits? Personally, I drop that bugger (when I'm the carrier) right on the trap spot. At 126 seconds of life, it'll be there when the pull occurs and serves not only as bait for the critters, but as a visual for the puller to run to, reducing the chance of missing the traps.

Stack, always. The new AI makes spreading detrimental... things running away before they hit them main body of traps is very not good.

Mahanaxar · Nov 23, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Imo, ideal group size is 3.
2 may be enough, but when something goes wrong you are in trouble.
4 and more are overkill.

3 rangers trapping on the same spot and waiting for enemies ON the traps instant vaporize everything.

5-6 is good for beginners.

striderkaaru · Nov 23, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Let me bounce a couple questions off your noggin and see what sticks, if I may...

Unless you're the one carrying EW, where would you use the extra points if not in Exp/WS? The reason I go with 15 exp is that I've found that, with QZ, EW and SQ all running, that's the level I can trap like a madman without ever running out of juice. At 14, there are moments when I get the Chirp of No Energy. I'm sure less points in WS would still be effective for the traps, but the real reason for the 16 in WS (and this is a trade secret, tell everyone!) is that when QZ and EW go up, if you hit SQ, it will run out right about the exact time it's recharged, so your entire trap cycle will have SQ up the entire time. With less than 16 in WS, there's a downtime for SQ, unless you happen to hit it after QZ is up but before EW is (although in this case you lose a few seconds of time when both spirits are alive).

Agree on the three trapper groups. Effective, fun and profitable.

Winnowing... why not cast it while everyone else is casting spirits? Personally, I drop that bugger (when I'm the carrier) right on the trap spot. At 126 seconds of life, it'll be there when the pull occurs and serves not only as bait for the critters, but as a visual for the puller to run to, reducing the chance of missing the traps.

Stack, always. The new AI makes spreading detrimental... things running away before they hit them main body of traps is very not good.

i'll bounce them right back.

i don't disagree that going 16/15 is a good idea. all i'm saying is that it's not absolutely necessary. and there aren't many attribute points left over. the difference between 16/15 and 14/13 is the runes, not the point spread. base is still maxed at 12/12. so yes, having 16/15 is a good idea, but repeated runs have shown that two trappers at 14/13 can do it as well. so, it's not absolutely necessary.

i have my own reasons for not getting superior runes. however, i'm saying it more as an encouragement to new trappers that if they get booted from a group because they don't have 16/15, then they most likely would not want to be in that group anyway.

with regards to winnowing and other spirits, i've heard the reasoning to use it as bait and as a place holder before. however, i still think it is unnecessary. when one trapper pulls, the other should still be trapping in the same spot. that should be enough of an indication of where the traps are. a good trap set kills things almost instantly, so you really don't need bait. the knockdown from spike is enough to get a few pulses of dust in and all of the pulses from flame. so, once again, if you want to use a spirit as bait/placeholder, then that is fine, but it is not absolutely necessary.