Curse

Talin Verderben · Nov 21, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

/signed

I like this idea, and why should they implement an added reward? You will still get drops and gold as you go. Granted they are smaller than a higher level char might get in say SF or FoW but after selling the items you find, you can make a decent amount.

Yichi · Nov 21, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolver1ne

WTS Mentoring 10k -_-

Guild Wars does not require mentoring from other players in such a complex way. Besides, simple mentoring is already implemented in the game, in pre-searing to be exact, via those blue popups that tell you what you can do at a certain point. That's why there's pre-searing in the first place, to give beginners time to learn the basics.

pre searing is a joke. thsoe dont teach you jack crap that you cant learn from reading the box for the most part. They teach you nothing abotu how to use your char effecitvely, how to toggle things, how to organize your stuff to best suit you, how to salvage anything, that things salvaged are worth more mney, etc. so much needs to be changed........

Back on topic, your idea is good, but why would you need to drop down to thier level? i would rather stay at a higher level thus being able to bail them out if they get in too over their head or i occasionalyl make that wrong turn and lead them to death. (you cant say honestly youve never done it tryign to help someone) I would prefer my monk to have her max healing and skills to be able to help keep him alive.

Beqxter · Nov 21, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Personally, I don't really mind grouping with lower-level friends and guildies and overpowering the enemy through missions, but that's because they're almost always on their second or third chars through and we both just want to blast through as quickly as possible. I would feel a bit guilty providing such aid to someone on their first way through, though.

But in the meantime, if you're so concerned, why not just handicap yourself? There's no reason you HAVE to max out your attribute points, and now that you can reassign at will you can just lower your own points to your friend's level and leave the rest unassigned. Grab a weapon that drops from wherever they are. Limit yourself only to those skills available at that level. It's not exactly fighting at their level, but it's pretty damn close, and nobody's had to code anything.

I'd prefer to see some sort of mentoring/training system for PvP, which to my mind is far more complex and difficult than PvE (once you learn to pull, you're pretty much set for the game). Some means by which players can offer themselves as teachers or simply hired brawn to young, lower-ranked guilds for recompense, either in gold or in warm fuzzies.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 21, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by deolmstead

Personally, I don't really mind grouping with lower-level friends and guildies and overpowering the enemy through missions, but that's because they're almost always on their second or third chars through and we both just want to blast through as quickly as possible. I would feel a bit guilty providing such aid to someone on their first way through, though.

But in the meantime, if you're so concerned, why not just handicap yourself? There's no reason you HAVE to max out your attribute points, and now that you can reassign at will you can just lower your own points to your friend's level and leave the rest unassigned. Grab a weapon that drops from wherever they are. Limit yourself only to those skills available at that level. It's not exactly fighting at their level, but it's pretty damn close, and nobody's had to code anything.

I'd prefer to see some sort of mentoring/training system for PvP, which to my mind is far more complex and difficult than PvE (once you learn to pull, you're pretty much set for the game). Some means by which players can offer themselves as teachers or simply hired brawn to young, lower-ranked guilds for recompense, either in gold or in warm fuzzies.

While the IDEA of PVP mentoring wasn't mentioned, I'll agree there. It is alot harder to PVP good, then to PVE good for one reason: In PVP you really need to know what builds do what against who, and how to run your character more effectively against player characters..But still, my concept, "Not handicapping" yourself..you still have everything like you would, but lowering attributes wouldn't make it like you're playing through it again, helping people, which is my whole concept. Spreading the knowledge.

--The Shim

Yichi · Nov 21, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

not only that but pvp requires teamwork and communication. who knew?

..............

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 21, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

not only that but pvp requires teamwork and communication. who knew?

..............

Who knew, indeed.

--The Shim

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 21, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

pre searing is a joke. thsoe dont teach you jack crap that you cant learn from reading the box for the most part. They teach you nothing abotu how to use your char effecitvely, how to toggle things, how to organize your stuff to best suit you, how to salvage anything, that things salvaged are worth more mney, etc. so much needs to be changed........

Back on topic, your idea is good, but why would you need to drop down to thier level? i would rather stay at a higher level thus being able to bail them out if they get in too over their head or i occasionalyl make that wrong turn and lead them to death. (you cant say honestly youve never done it tryign to help someone) I would prefer my monk to have her max healing and skills to be able to help keep him alive.

The reason for dropping to their level with scaled skills/and whatnot is so that in effect, you're actually really playing with them, you aren't overpowered, and you don't kill everything in a couple hits :P So, in reality, you are dropping level down, and scaling skills accordingly, so it's like you just found each other in, say, Ascalon, and wanted to go adventuring =)

--The Shim

nine breaker · Nov 21, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Like many others in this thread, I think mentoring and helping each other is a great idea.

I'm curious about what can be done to approximate the same desire result, but without waiting for new feature to be added to the game.

Reading through this thread, there are a couple issues that were brought up,

1. How to effectly show the other player how do perform certain task?
Depends on the subject you are trying to share with the other player, "scale" to their level may or may not be required. And even in the case where that's desirable, one can probably get most of the effects with existing mechanisms (as mentioned by deolmstead).

2. How to keep people motivated?
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to go with financial rewards. It's either going to be insignificant or very difficult to keep it exploit free. Besides if a person's goal is to accumulate virtual gold, then there are many other more suitable in game activities they can spend their time on.

If I follow my own trend of thought

, I can see how individuals can mentor other players with the existing environment. What I don't see, however, are ways to scale up. What can be done to make this process easier and more fun so more people can and want to do it.

Experienced players are not necessarily good teachers. As a starting point, I think it would be very useful to have a collection of teaching material, methodology and best practice. For example, what are the missions that bring home the point of focus fire and target calling? What are the ones that stress energy management skill for casters? How about aggro control? How to be a low level but competent monk? The list can go on and on, but I will stop here

To the OP, thanks for starting an excellent topic. Not sure if you would consider my post OT from what you want to discuss here. Please let me know if you prefer me to create a separate thread.

Pevil Lihatuh · Nov 22, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Great idea. Dunno if its actually necessary to implement but nice one on the unselfish idea

if it weren't for the fact most people in gw are total morons/jerks then i'd do this anyway. I stick to doing this in games where people tend to have some manners though

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 22, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by nine breaker

Like many others in this thread, I think mentoring and helping each other is a great idea.

I'm curious about what can be done to approximate the same desire result, but without waiting for new feature to be added to the game.

Reading through this thread, there are a couple issues that were brought up,

1. How to effectly show the other player how do perform certain task?
Depends on the subject you are trying to share with the other player, "scale" to their level may or may not be required. And even in the case where that's desirable, one can probably get most of the effects with existing mechanisms (as mentioned by deolmstead).

2. How to keep people motivated?
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to go with financial rewards. It's either going to be insignificant or very difficult to keep it exploit free. Besides if a person's goal is to accumulate virtual gold, then there are many other more suitable in game activities they can spend their time on.

If I follow my own trend of thought

, I can see how individuals can mentor other players with the existing environment. What I don't see, however, are ways to scale up. What can be done to make this process easier and more fun so more people can and want to do it.

Experienced players are not necessarily good teachers. As a starting point, I think it would be very useful to have a collection of teaching material, methodology and best practice. For example, what are the missions that bring home the point of focus fire and target calling? What are the ones that stress energy management skill for casters? How about aggro control? How to be a low level but competent monk? The list can go on and on, but I will stop here

To the OP, thanks for starting an excellent topic. Not sure if you would consider my post OT from what you want to discuss here. Please let me know if you prefer me to create a separate thread.

1. Effectively? Remain level 20 and just senselessly beat on things. Adventurously? Scale down to their level so it acts as you just found them and want to help them <not the case, just an example>

2. Motivated? Maybe while mentoring, if your character you're mentoring does a set number of quests or something you get a reward like a skill point <yes, I know, it could be spammed specifically to gain skill points, but then again, isn't FOW repeatable quests kind of along the same track?> Or other ways, such as unlocking things for PVP that would act as faction over a long period of time, as not to be spam mentored.

3. It's fine. I asked for constructive criticism and this falls into the category.
There are no quests like you mention, but there should be, with another character that allows him/her to explain it. If you're being mentored, you're already listening, so a problem with communication could be evident. Like I said, this isn't a PURE thread on the idea yet, rather fragments of what the IDEA can be =)

--The Shim

nine breaker · Nov 22, 2005, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimus DarkRaven

1. Effectively? Remain level 20 and just senselessly beat on things. Adventurously? Scale down to their level so it acts as you just found them and want to help them <not the case, just an example>

One could choose to just beat on things senslessly, but one could also choose to use that as a teaching aid. I imagine there might be use cases where you would want to remain full strength. For example, let's say you want to show someone how to deal with interrupts, and you know this nice spot with the perfect mob for that. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get to "the lab" quickly without worring about other "traffic" on the way there? Especially if the student didn't get it the first time and need to go back several times.

And in the case where you want to simulate what it's like at a particular level, the skill bar and attribute points can easily be adjusted. Armor and weapons are a little more hassle, but not much. Life and energy are the ones that are hard to adjust with the existing mechanisms. One could tweak life points with runes and off hands, but that feels more like a hack than a solution.

I guess my point is that it's a great idea to help others and I would like to learn how to do it effectively without waiting for new feature development from ANet. It would be cool if ANet implement something to facilitate this, I just don't want that to be a gating factor.

Guess patience is not one of my virtues

Feloriene Bluewolf · Nov 22, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

This sort of idea being implemented would be amazing. I know how daunted I was (and sometimes still am!! lol) when I first started playing GW with the number of Level 20s there were already kicking around. Guild Wars was always sold as a game that'd rely on teamwork to achieve goals, this'd just be pushing the community feel involving guilds to another level. I think it'd go down really well, especially in helping bridge the gap between players who prefer PVE and haven't strayed too far into PVP for whatever reason. Guilds wouldn't just be able to teach good pve progress in game, they'd also be able to shape and mould more kickass pvp players to push them up the ranks...not that this isn't already done in game, it'd just be kickass to see something in-game support it.

/signed happily

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 22, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Good suggestions, overall. While most people feel this is an extraneous feature, I believe it would take away the "noob" mentality, or at least help, if it were only implemented =/

--The Shim

Korg The Unfriendly · Nov 22, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

/singed

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 26, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Added Since: The ability to have a shared questlist to go along with mentoring so you can tell he/she <who you're mentoring> how do such and such a quest at the best way to tell them...By doing it with them.

I always liked a Shared Quest Journal..like Eq2 <It allowed you to see if they had the quest/what step they were on if they did>

It would really go hand in hand with my mentoring idea.

--The Shim

unamed player · Nov 27, 2005, 01:00 AM // 01:00

/signed

Great idea. However, there are plenty of other things that need to be "added" before this comes into play. There is another post somewhere about a training facility in the guild hall. I think that would be better for the community and raise "noob" awareness. PvE is a stepping stone to PvP no matter how you look at it. While this idea would be great for beginners, you could easily accomplish training a newbie in a guild hall within a controlled enviroment. Even if he/she could not actually fight a monster, he/she could learn how to effectively use skills while watching energy levels etc.

So, once again, you have a great idea (or copied from whatever game) but id like to see a training facility in the guild hall first. I think it would be easier to implement and that guilds will finally start to mean something.

I havent been in a guild for 2 months now and it hasnt changed my gameplay in the least. Thats a serious problem considering the name of this game.

If the latter is too much to ask for. Ill settle for your mentoring. Not that i play pve or that i would mentor anyone but i think it would be good for the community.

Roupe · Nov 27, 2005, 03:38 AM // 03:38

/signed

Orbberius · Nov 27, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I like the idea in principle, but I have one problem with it:

Just because you're level 20 doesn't mean you know how to play the game at all. I think this is incredibly clear right now. I've met few enough level20s who actually know how to play. This is largely because the game is so easy that you can piggyback on the efforts a few players in your group without spending any effort yourself. So would this end up being ineffective or even teaching people bad habits? Who knows. There should be some kind of reputation system where the good players are rewarded by other human players for being skilled at the game and then these good players can in turn teach the newbs.

Also, I agree with unnamed player that building this into the guild system might be a good idea to boost the usefulness of guilds. Imagine someone setting up a teaching guild? You could join the teaching guild and the guildmembers would teach how to PvE or PvP or how to do this well or that well. After your lessons are done, you could go and join other, actual guilds that do other things like PvP. Wouldn't that be just insanely cool for the community? It would be an actual guild, almost a professional order in the game itself. I think that's pretty exciting. I can just see it in Lion's Arch now: "So-and-so's guild of 'Guildwars de-noobification' offering Guildwars lessons for the nominal fee of xxx gold! Try a free lesson today!"

Of course, there's no reason why you can't do this at the present, but some sort of reputation system would give it more officiality, you could be more sure of how good the teaching is.

Undivine · Nov 27, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

First I want to clear something up. These days the word "noob" is derogatory, meaning the person is an idiot, while the word "newb" or "newbie" refers to someone who is simply new.

Anyway, this idea is a bit needless. As someone else mentioned, it's already possible to scale down. I can see this would make sense in a game such as EverQuest, but in guildwars the level system just isn't really built for this sort of thing. Half the game is spent at level 20 anyway.

As for PvP mentoring, that would be much better accomplished with guild practice arenas, which is already a highly suggested idea. Best way to teach someone PvP is to spar with them, just like how they do it in ninja movies. "You must interrupt my spells, young grasshopper."

Now let me tell you the cold hard truth, Mr. Idealist. I don't think teaching people how to play would signifigantly reduce the event of "noobs." It's not so much that they don't know how things work; it's that they're stupid. MMORPGs are great, except for the people. That is a fact. Sorry Mr. Idealist, but the problem is that some people are stupid, not ignorant. And the law of averages, given the size of the GW community, dictates you will meet stupid people.

Here's my analogy: Everyone who drives a car knows how to drive and knows the rules. Yet there is no shortage of people who for one reason or another do something stupid on the road once or twice... or often. Sending them back to driver's ed doesn't do anything except allow them to legally get their license back, which they lost for doing something stupid.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 27, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

First I want to clear something up. These days the word "noob" is derogatory, meaning the person is an idiot, while the word "newb" or "newbie" refers to someone who is simply new.

Anyway, this idea is a bit needless. As someone else mentioned, it's already possible to scale down. I can see this would make sense in a game such as EverQuest, but in guildwars the level system just isn't really built for this sort of thing. Half the game is spent at level 20 anyway.

As for PvP mentoring, that would be much better accomplished with guild practice arenas, which is already a highly suggested idea. Best way to teach someone PvP is to spar with them, just like how they do it in ninja movies. "You must interrupt my spells, young grasshopper."

Now let me tell you the cold hard truth, Mr. Idealist. I don't think teaching people how to play would signifigantly reduce the event of "noobs." It's not so much that they don't know how things work; it's that they're stupid. MMORPGs are great, except for the people. That is a fact. Sorry Mr. Idealist, but the problem is that some people are stupid, not ignorant. And the law of averages, given the size of the GW community, dictates you will meet stupid people.

Here's my analogy: Everyone who drives a car knows how to drive and knows the rules. Yet there is no shortage of people who for one reason or another do something stupid on the road once or twice... or often. Sending them back to driver's ed doesn't do anything except allow them to legally get their license back, which they lost for doing something stupid.

Instead of quoting me and how this is already possible, perhaps you can put in your own two cents about how to transform this idea into say, a more plausible one. I'm open to everything here people, thats why I posted the idea. If people don't like it how it's stated, CHANGE IT! =) Again, that's why I posted it. Maybe after modding this idea could be the next big one:

--The Shim