Curse

The Acolyte · Nov 30, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Now, see, you had to go say "NO way" didn't you?

Stances, Aegis, Wards, etc. Suddenly N/W is popular. Targeting the MM would just replace the gear tank, and you could probably still raise a significant army. You could DEFINATELY raise an army between battles and that would work just as well. As long as you can get a Verata's Sacrifice off (that's the most important one) you'll be ok.

DOH...caught on that one. I owe an apology and correction. "No way" in the way that there is "no way" that mobs will stand under an AoE after the AoE patch.

Thanks for the correction...there should be ways to overcome this via intelligent thinking and playing

The Acolyte · Dec 01, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpe_116

Why i dislike this idea is. im an oldies guy :P. I really dislike the idea of constintly changing a game??? cant anyone just be happy with what they have???. Countinously changing the game is annoying lots of people, and satisfying lots of people?? now why is a-net narrow minded, and going with the group that enjoys it...granted. that i liked most of the updates... for example. Prot bond, when they nerfed that, i didnt care, made it harder for me *but still possible*. when they added nightmares to uw. GREAT, more challenge. but when the aoe update came............. o god..... they destroyed a portion of the elementilist... think about it... no one will ever use aoe spells again... they just ripped out around 10 spells from the game. not including all the monk smites. they just made the spells useless?? so can we please stop changing the game and enjoy the way it is

.

*sorry if u did not understand my originall post * ill try to be more clear

No worries, thanks for clarifying. This is similar to Damon's argument though, that the game shouldn't change (aka evolve) because people point out these "tricks" (aka exploits). That's what this forum is for.

Just curious, in what way does this exploit benefit the GW community, outside of creating a mindless way to farm SF or FoW?

Lord Oranos · Dec 01, 2005, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Ah screw it, dont feel like arguing.
I agree with removing the bug, but something else will replace it. Sad but true.

General Surena · Dec 01, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

/signed

That "trick" is more than retarded and doesn't really contribute to skillful playing rather than turning it into some slot-machine orgy.

- your friendly Wammo

The Acolyte · Dec 01, 2005, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Surena

/signed

That "trick" is more than retarded and doesn't really contribute to skillful playing rather than turning it into some slot-machine orgy.

- your friendly Wammo

lmao...yeah, good point. The most difficult part about these runs is getting enough "luck" to get the item you're hoping for...

Sharpe_116 · Dec 01, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

i agree with the point that the exploit makes it easy for people to numbly farm sf infinitly, without any skill... but what can you do?? if thats the way they do it, then let them make the money and boost it into the economy

striderkaaru · Dec 01, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpe_116

i agree with the point that the exploit makes it easy for people to numbly farm sf infinitly, without any skill... but what can you do?? if thats the way they do it, then let them make the money and boost it into the economy

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

Damon Windwalker · Dec 01, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

Converseley though - I've seen plenty of people screw up UW and FoW rund because of other moments of stupidity as well....

Undivine · Dec 01, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

Or won't play without it. It's hard for me to get a group that isn't going to do that stuff, which is a shame since that trick makes it boring.

The Acolyte · Dec 01, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Converseley though - I've seen plenty of people screw up UW and FoW rund because of other moments of stupidity as well....

hahaha....so true. Hell, you have to have a halfway decent group just to GET to the book in FoW, and many days that's tough enough (unfortunately).

Gotta agree though, it would be nice to have it be a regular occurance to get passed that point because everyone is used to questing/farming in FoW without the book. But getting rid of book trick definitely won't eliminate stupidity...

The Acolyte · Dec 01, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Or won't play without it. It's hard for me to get a group that isn't going to do that stuff, which is a shame since that trick makes it boring.

Yup, as stated before the problem here is that people will only farm with book. I JUST tried to find a group of people who would be willing to farm SF without the keg/gear for 2 hours, and guess what?? I found ONE person who was patient enough to wait for 45 minutes before saying he was sorry, but he still wanted to at the very least farm SF.

As a caveat, after 2 hours I went into SF and farmed it with the trick (of course), so I most definitely have NOT stopped playing in the meantime. Oh, and picked up another Gorrels staff ----it! Why can't I get Grognars sword?!

Edit: spelled "grognars" sword correctly (instead of "grodnars")...should spell check before I hit submit...

jesh · Dec 01, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

/signed

The more skill the game requires, the better, I say. Right now you could teach a three year old how to tank sf.

Symeon · Dec 02, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Well I'm not very enthusiastic as regards to SF and farming there since I haven't done much myself, but I know what you're talking about here and agree that changes to AI aggro there are needed.

vvh · Dec 02, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Geez, if you are bored with certain stragety or tired of seeing it, why don't you create a new one yourself and do it with your guilldmates. I'm telling you this, people don't like change and it's no point to make them change coz " YOU" are bored. People farm for different reason, some for gold, some for items and some for the challege. If "YOUUUUUUUU" want challenge, go and farm with just necro and mesmer henchie, that should be challenging enough. Everything gets boring and becomes easy if you do it everyday. That's called learning curve. I will say it again, just because "YOU" are bored, there is no need to ruin the fun of others who are in farming for a different reason. You like challenge, it's admirable. But the world certainly do not revolve around you. (quoted from Mhenlo)

The Acolyte · Dec 03, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvh

Geez, if you are bored with certain stragety or tired of seeing it, why don't you create a new one yourself and do it with your guilldmates. I'm telling you this, people don't like change and it's no point to make them change coz " YOU" are bored. People farm for different reason, some for gold, some for items and some for the challege. If "YOUUUUUUUU" want challenge, go and farm with just necro and mesmer henchie, that should be challenging enough. Everything gets boring and becomes easy if you do it everyday. That's called learning curve. I will say it again, just because "YOU" are bored, there is no need to ruin the fun of others who are in farming for a different reason. You like challenge, it's admirable. But the world certainly do not revolve around you. (quoted from Mhenlo)

Read posts above...this point is thoroughly discussed. To be a parrot, SF was designed to be for advanced players. There is nothing skillful or advanced about the holding item trick. If you don't have skill and need an item to farm, go farm sanctum cay, or better yet, LEARN. It's not about what "I" want, it's about enhancing the game in a way that promotes intelligent and skillful playing. And if you haven't developed the skill to move on, then you don't deserve to move on. All of the missions are setup this way, so if you don't learn how to work as a team and you don't learn how to leverage your build in a way that benefits the team (henchies or PCs), then you are stopped from continuing. Why should there be an exception to this rule in an advanced zone rewarding players with (for the most part) GREAT items. This recommendation is just one more step along the lines of game evolution. My recommendation is to fix this issue to spur creativeity and intelligence; your's is to continue with the same brainless approach to farming SF and FoW.

It's funny, because this is just a statement that we "shouldn't change the game" because it "works." AKA, it's easy to farm and get green items/shards/xp by holding an item rather than using skill. These are supposed to be ADVANCED areas for ADVANCED players...a frigging retard (using the term literally and scientifically) could use the keg trick to farm SF. That's just absolutely idiotic from a game programming and design standpoint, as well as a player development standpoint.

EDIT: I didn't ask for AoE's to be changed, but I was sure as hell glad they did. This is just one more change Anet will need to make (yes, in my opinion) to make the game more interesting for advanced players, in Anet's self quoted advanced zones.

Linsys · Jan 02, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

I read most of the posts, so here is my 2 cents.

I have been running FoW and UW long before SF ever came out..

Anyway, as far as the keg and book "trick" goes, I hear and eve agree with some of the posts that warriors need to learn how to tank properly, however I don't put 100% of the responsibility on the warrior, there is a thing and its called the AGRO CIRCLE which most people have No clue how to use and always break agro, there is a way to allow the wariror to maintain full agro in SF, FoW and UW (there is no book or keg in UW but.. yea) without a book or keg or anything like it.

My problem is if I run with my guild we could clear FoW without the book, but if I want a pickup group in ToA you better belive we are going to use the book trick because its nearly impossible to get a group to even make it to the book let along complete a mission, this is HIGHLY frustrating to me.

I even like to organize groups on TS and help new people learn the FoW and SF ropes but there is ALWAY someone in the group who is like "Why are we waiting I just want to attack something" and goes and over agros... unfortunatly the book and the keg happen to be the solution to this issue.

If it wasn't for the book or the keg I would NEVER do FoW or SF with a pickup group because it would take group after group to find people who know what they are doing.

Now before you say the keg and the book create this problem, I think that is an incorrect preception as well, the book for me was like my training whells for FoW, I got the chance to learn all the quests with my warrior and have sucessfully taugh others using the book trick. All of us now are able to run FoW with NO book at all.

Thanks for reading.

Undivine · Jan 02, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

You couldn't fully read 3 pages?

Sure, the book trick might be good for training for a warrior (that can be debated), but what about the rest of us? I am not a ****ing warrior!

Rafe · Jan 02, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

I have not even seen this point brought up, but these tricks drive prices way down. The mesmer bosses inside Sorrows Furnace are so overfarmed that if you get a mesmer boss spawn, most groups don't even bother killing the boss. At one point even greens from bosses outside of SF were worth 10K. Now I have to give them away at prices like 1k.
/Signed

Eder · Jan 02, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

/signed

I agree that the AI should be changed to act smarter in regards to gear-carrying-warriors and MMs... I expect ANet to update this in the future since the so-called AoE nerf was also an update that aimed to make the AI act smarter. It is therefore my understanding that ANet believes a smarter AI is a positive addition to the game.

If ANet wanted to side with the "shut up, adapt, and play the game" crowd, all of us numbskulls would still be LF Echo Nukers!!!!, dying to NR teams, chasing after invinci-monk griefers in the random arenas and/or spamming signet of capture at random times in hopes of capturing a boss's elite stance.

Legendary Necromancer · Jan 03, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I don't get it, nerf the blasted book/gear/rod trick. It's an exploit, and it won't kill us all when it's gone.

I know we shouldn't swing the nerf bat so recklessly, but if your saying we should just sit around and let these problems pass. I honestly don't see the problem with nerfing it.

Also, my comments to the MM aggro thing: Some creatures in Tyria aren't very intelligent (ettins for example), so maybe we should implant this AI in smarter creatures, like centaurs and dwarves.