Curse

Ensabah Nur · Jan 09, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

OK, I'm level 20(+) and everytime I would theoretically level up again I get a skill point to use to buy skills, problem is I have unlocked all the skills I wish to unlock and am getting a new skill point for each "level up" when what I really need is a higher max to my health points. I currently have a max of 460 hp(without skill/extra/temp HP increases) but I'm now facing creatures(mobs of them sometimes) that can do upwards of 300 damage to me in one shot, so they can pretty much kill me in 2 shots easy.Doesn't seem just eh? Especially when the average player character can only do around 30-50 damage on creatures that have 500+ hp. I'm not talking about soloing either, a group of 8, level 20+ players going against a mob(4-12) of level 20 - 30 creatures Just doesn't seem challenging, seems more like suicide. so here's my suggestion to Anet:

After a character reaches level 20, we should get the 1 skill point(you already give us) + an additional 5 or 10 health points for every "level up"(The skill points end up being useless to us after awhile but the added HP would always benefit us.

So that was 2 parts of my triangle(Skill Points & Health Points) here's part 3(Attribute Points): I see that I have recieved (according to Anet) 185 attribute points of a possible 200(not sure if this is per character or for all 4) but my main character has only used 39 of 43(not using ATT points for Atts I don't use/ I have 4 att points that can only be used on 4 different attributes,which I don't use those Atts).
Why is it that we don't recieve any new attribute points after we reach level 20? One would think that the more you use an attribute(Strength, Healing etc) the better /more proficient you get at it. So this suggestion is for Anet to give players 1 Attribute point per "level up" after level 20 that you can save/use on any attributes of players choice(not restricted).

Since these would be across the board increases in HP,SP & AP for all players it doesn't raise any balance issues.

Are you in favor of HP & AP increases in addition to SP increases after level 20?

PieXags · Jan 09, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

I'm opposed to such a suggestion. Killing more enemies (getting more experience as to level) and what not, shouldn't give you more health, more attribute points, or anything of the sort. This game rewards skill to a point, over time played. You shouldn't get more health because you know how to do the UW quests over and over again, I call that "grind" and I don't like it.

Smasher/Devourer · Jan 09, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

I agree with PieXags, and also believe that the suggestions you propose would break the difficulty level of the game. If you feel that attempting a certain part of the game feels like "suicide," then the solution is not to make the game easier, but to take another look at your tactics and character build.

Banin Galori · Jan 09, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

I agree... more hp with more time investment would ruin the premises of the game, which is competitive play on an equal footing.

You get hit for 300 damage a shot? Wow... I've never seen a monster do that to me, and I'm an Elementalist. =) I guess I just haven't gotten into the real difficult stages yet? Where is this, may I ask?

Ensabah Nur · Jan 09, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09

I somewhat see your point Pie, but the whole PvE game comes down to "grind" eventually(Believe me, as Guild Leader I enjoy helping out my soldiers and advancing them but after helping different members do the same missions repeatedly it sure feels like "grind" to me). For the record I haven't been to FoW/SF/or UW yet, I was just talking about helping members of my guild around the desert and Droks area and not recieving anything I can use to increase my characters abilities to survive/thrive.(drops/gold not included) Since I made level 20 I would have "leveled up" 11 times already just from helping other guildmates/friends and I got 11 skill points I don't want/need, sorry but wooptydido, I'd much rather have gained some HP or AP that I could actually use. Yes, there will be players that take "advantage" of Higher XP areas to gain more HP/AP but if they want to "grind" that's there option. Like I said it's all up to each player and since it would be available to all players if they so choose, then it doesn't upset the "delicate balance" of GW. Yes Skill vs. Time Played. but once you reach lvl 20 and "complete"(I haven't nor want to honestly) all the missions/quests. What is there/what does Anet do to "reward" the player(s) that keep going back(& "Grind) to assist guildmates? Answer: nothing. I'm just suggesting "rewarding" players to keep them coming back for more AKA Replay Value.

Mo/R9 · Jan 09, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

I somewhat see your point Pie, but the whole PvE game comes down to "grind" eventually(Believe me, as Guild Leader I enjoy helping out my soldiers and advancing them but after helping different members do the same missions repeatedly it sure feels like "grind" to me). For the record I haven't been to FoW/SF/or UW yet, I was just talking about helping members of my guild around the desert and Droks area and not recieving anything I can use to increase my characters abilities to survive/thrive.(drops/gold not included) Since I made level 20 I would have "leveled up" 11 times already just from helping other guildmates/friends and I got 11 skill points I don't want/need, sorry but wooptydido, I'd much rather have gained some HP or AP that I could actually use. Yes, there will be players that take "advantage" of Higher XP areas to gain more HP/AP but if they want to "grind" that's there option. Like I said it's all up to each player and since it would be available to all players if they so choose, then it doesn't upset the "delicate balance" of GW. Yes Skill vs. Time Played. but once you reach lvl 20 and "complete"(I haven't nor want to honestly) all the missions/quests. What is there/what does Anet do to "reward" the player(s) that keep going back(& "Grind) to assist guildmates? Answer: nothing. I'm just suggesting "rewarding" players to keep them coming back for more AKA Replay Value.

*pokes pvp* What you'll have are these 600,000 HP monster W/Mo's who have grinded and grinded and grinded and they will go into the arena and be invincible. They, with their 80 attributes in swordsmanship, strength, tactics and healing prayers will be impossible to beat. Then, everyone else will have to grind to get up there, they will keep grinding to maintain their lead and so on and so forth until the name of the game is grinding and pvp is won not because of skill, but because of who grinded the 80 or so extra "levels" after 20 to get attribute points and HP.

Siliconwafer · Jan 09, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

You have enough skills between eight players to take down anything in PvE. And besides, how would this affect PvP? It's more incentive to grind, and that's not good.

Quote:

I currently have a max of 460 hp(without skill/extra/temp HP increases) but I'm now facing creatures(mobs of them sometimes) that can do upwards of 300 damage to me in one shot, so they can pretty much kill me in 2 shots easy.

Have you tried Prot Spirit?

VGJustice · Jan 09, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smasher/Devourer

If you feel that attempting a certain part of the game feels like "suicide," then the solution is not to make the game easier, but to take another look at your tactics and character build.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

tafy69 · Jan 09, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banin Galori

I agree... more hp with more time investment would ruin the premises of the game, which is competitive play on an equal footing.

You get hit for 300 damage a shot? Wow... I've never seen a monster do that to me, and I'm an Elementalist. =) I guess I just haven't gotten into the real difficult stages yet? Where is this, may I ask?

Have you been to the underworld?

I remember being killed with 1 hit as a monk, prob was a critical as i was trying to run away lol

Elena · Jan 09, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

protective spirit is youre friend turn those aataxes into puppy's turning there wooping 300 damage into 10% of youre full health wuahahaha

free_xbox · Jan 09, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

i agree that you should have a level cap of 20 (which keeps your health at 500 flat) the ability to equip runes that augment health, armor, energy, attack rate, etc....

i also agree the terms of the game should be fair enough for anyone who's spent atleast a month in the game to hang with anyone who's spent a year....

but i do AGREE with other things that normal guildwars fans don't agree with...

i agree that you should have 20+(level) modifier to give you another (single solitary) point of hp for warriors, possibly mp for mages, +point of heal spells to monk, +point of hp to ranger beast/or possibly a quicker ranger attack rate, for mesmers a slightly quicker 1/20th of fastcasting, etc etc etc

this means we'll be looking at A MORE EXAGGERATED game (set of rules, rules to that effect)

before people start saying BALANCE and GW PRECEDENTS and blah blah blah

you should first remember, a base PVP build without runes is ALOT different from rune infested builds... and everyone is bringing vigor, some kinda of superior rune to turn their average spell/ability into a +3 super ability

people are bringing all the expected skills to the table as well
(the offensive, the defensive, the unavoidable, the spellbusters, the gamebreaker skills)

anyone who screams nerf could always say that a few skills will "outweigh the rest"

BUT BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS...

the whole mechanics of the game needs to be revised
many new ideas and skills need to come into place
(and the premise of these skills would be self sufficiency or actuality of character concept??? (in other words, a monk is not just a healer who sits in the back, an elementalist is not just a spell flinger, warriors are not just meat/meatshield, so on and so on)

such optimizations would be more deadly melee (arrows deal 28 dmg, swords deal 22 dmg?)
more deadly sorcery
more debilitating archery (archery is debilitating enough???)
archery versus shieldsmanship
sorcery projectiles versus shieldsmanship

circles of protection
circles of elementalism
circles of death
walls of phantasm
walls of metal/warriors
cascading walls/waterfalls of arrows

more buffs to necroism (perhaps pain/dmg to healing but immunity to poison/ghouls, disease/zombies, bleeding/vampires, cripple/bonelord, ???)

more realistic armor categories (tattoos are the equivalent of/better than leather armor)

more realistic application of weapon to armor...
how come a sword is 15-22, but then if you hit anyone its either 5 dmg to a well armored warrior, and 50 dmg to a not so well armored competitor???
i never actually see 22 dmg ever...

removal of pointless categories (mesmer has fast casting but all the mesmer spells are "too" slow to begin with, ranger has expertise but all the ranger skills are expensive, elementalist spells are rediculously over expensive to compensate for the fact that you need to spend/burn some points into energy storage...) //so you could say, mesmer wouldn't need fastcasting if her spells were fast, elementalists wouldn't need energy storage if his spells were cheap, ranger wouldn't need expertise if shooting an arrow were as cheap as pulling back on the bow...

this makes them great at being a primary category but useless for everyone else who'd like to throw that into their build, like a warrior bringing something too expensive (ranger or elementalist skill) and then only having enough energy to do it once before the battle starts

removal of pointless buffs/the moving of buffs from item to actual human (+energy and +healths make the owner of the object... i mean the object makes the man, people with better weapons and armor are better than people without the good stuff!!1 you know what i mean)

to the dismay of both the pros and cons of (idea)
LOTS AND LOTS OF THINGS NEED TO BE THOUGHT ABOUT BEFORE SAYING... LETS GIVE EVERYONE BONUS HEALTH AND BONUS CRAP

but then again guildwars does not suck...
WHAT DOES GW HAVE?
they have an action(playerskill/speed) oriented game which requires intense USER INPUT to both elevate level of play and evaluate the outcome of the game...

bring signet, reverse fortune, savage slash, distracting shot, price of failure, cry of frustration....

the concepts of interrupt, knockdown, knockback, daze, blind, steal mp, disable skill, lifesaver effect, these are the things that make THE GAME OF GUILDWARS a chance to win for everyone... a slight nanosecond of opportunity to perform a task is the place where guildwars comes alive...

if you do the right thing at the right time.... sometimes you win
and if you do the wrong thing and miss your window... sometimes you lose
OR YOU GET YOUR ASS KICKED BY SOMEONE WITH A BETTER BUILD

instead of all the secret cool things a 55 monk can do..
or all the dastardly things EOE can do...
or all the ninja sweet things a ranger trapper can do...

i think that guildwars should be revamped in a SECOND FOR SECOND arrangement

there should be skills for both adrenaline and energy for all characterclasses
5 typical move
10 power move
15 necessary/speed move
20 determined move/without fail move
25 godly move
(of course, an elite move of that skill genre)

(2) adrenaline/ condition move
(4) adrenaline/ damaging move
(6) adrenaline/ knocking/interrupting move
(8) adrenaline/ tides turning move
(10) adrenaline/ ultimate dmg move
elite

primary melee (with interrupts/knockdowns/knockbacks,etc) should exist for all classes

perhaps crossbows/warrior bows should exist for warriors (more power, less accuracy)

special distance moves should be made for magic users (their staffs)

signets should be spread out through the classes
i would think that anyone should be able to use "healing signet" (health per lvl)
like they use resurrection signet

AN EXAMPLE OF A BATTLE (under the new rules)
long distance projectiles
skirmishing projectiles/sorcery
armor/stances
skirmishing melee/power sorcery
intimate melee between rival foes

a toll of this new gw build would be the obliteration of atypical monks healing from great distances away/in safety, the end of rangers performing unbreakable stances/quicktraps/heals, the denial of sorcerers spamming away deadly arts without hurting their fellow teammates with AOE, the negating of mesmers from holding permanent hexes on foes for long amounts of time, the death of necromancers spamming unholy arts without a likewise price to pay themselves, and of course, warriors will no longer be THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN DANCE THE DANCE OF MELEE

end of blah

Dave83 · Jan 09, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Well theoretically the game rewards skill not time played ^^ so i have to agree with what a few have said its a bad idea.

Ensabah Nur · Jan 09, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo/R9

*pokes pvp* What you'll have are these 600,000 HP monster W/Mo's who have grinded and grinded and grinded and they will go into the arena and be invincible. They, with their 80 attributes in swordsmanship, strength, tactics and healing prayers will be impossible to beat. Then, everyone else will have to grind to get up there, they will keep grinding to maintain their lead and so on and so forth until the name of the game is grinding and pvp is won not because of skill, but because of who grinded the 80 or so extra "levels" after 20 to get attribute points and HP.

LOL, 5 to 10 HP(make it 5 then, the point is give us something other than a useless skill point when we "level up") really isn't much and 1 additional AP per "level" isn't either. Although I will admit I didn't contemplate the ramifications this would have on PvP because I do not participate in PvP(It's not the part of the game I wish to play).

Siliconwafer · Jan 09, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

That seems like very radical change, free_xbox. Perhaps in the future, considering the rather prolific plans for the release of new expansions. But to implement that all at once, or even over the period of a couple of ladder seasons, would be a bit tough.

Quote:

Since these would be across the board increases in HP,SP & AP for all players it doesn't raise any balance issues.

There may be. Imagine using PvE characters in PvP, and the differences between them, under the proposed changes. It's been said before, HP/AP/SP increases are not necessary. PvE is balanced enough so you can do it with party members with the correct skills.

Xenrath · Jan 09, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

I think the current system is fine as it is. My PvE warrior (perfectly capable of taking part in PvP, has all necessary skills unlocked and runes etc to match) has like 150+ spare skill points, which isn't even all that much compared to the longer term players and more hardcore farming types. At 5hp a pop, that would be an extra 750hp on top of whatever I currently have (I forget). So that would be 1200hp+ before any buffs to begin with!

Raxxman · Jan 09, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I concur with doing nothing.

Lvl 20 is powerful enough.

Kakumei · Jan 09, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

Just doesn't seem challenging, seems more like suicide. so here's my suggestion to Anet:

If you are repeatedly dying in one place in PVE and are absolutely unable to get past it, you should probably just stop playing the game.

Dmitri3 · Jan 09, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Aw. He actually posted this on many forums in same time...
Still no :P .