Curse

Red Sonya · Jan 12, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

all you would do is make guilds/groups of people rich by having them run the quest items the same as the rest.

EVEN MORE RUNNERS

EXAMPLE

20k to lions arch.

you take the quest we provide the muscle

you pick up the enterance/quest item and on to next outpost.

really major not think it out

Oh that's a nice counter, but, given now you're asking 20k that's going to cut into a lot of peoples budgets since Gaile has already said the majority of players don't even have that much. So, only the richest would be able to afford that and it still becomes "time consuming" above and beyond all that. You've still got to run them to each and every outpost and then you've still got to get the quest, and then go through the zone to kill the quest mobs. I don't think many guilds would want to put that kind of time running newbies around for 20k! lol Even if they had 20k.

Just for the fun of it, do the entire run of the game and this is what you have to do, run to each city/outpost in order then run to the futherest point in the zone and then back to the city/town. Then run to the next city/town and do it again. I bet even a runner would grow bored and tired of that, 20k wouldn't be worth the effort.

So you need to think it out eek!

Sir Green Aluminum · Jan 12, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Those are'nt missions, they're towns. And there are hardly any runners to those locations because: Water magic slows, knockdown, rust, maelstorm. All the time's i've gone there I had to fight. Also, henchmen are'nt as smart as monsters, they still stay in AOE attacks, especially maelstorm and try to cast.

What do you have against runners? Nothing illegal is done. Is it because they make money? Is it because you can't run?

Also, what about people who run/complete missions? Are you going to suggest that they put a quest at the end of missions?

Criminally Sane · Jan 12, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

LOL well I can't help it if you suk as a player now, that's a different story and if you suk that bad that you can't make it anywhere with henchies then I certainly wouldn't want to see you in the high end content anytime soon.

Whoa.. What's with the flames? All that was offered was a little criticism.

Loviatar · Jan 12, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Oh that's a nice counter, but, given now you're asking 20k that's going to cut into a lot of peoples budgets since Gaile has already said the majority of players don't even have that much. :

20 k was an arbitrary figure.

try this on for size as a counter.

runners trying out new builds running for 500g-1k to the next town which gives them a couple k each time for a trip they were making anyway.

someone bored who wants to impress the noobs for tips.

check out the price range on runs now as well as the specialized short haul people.

quest for xxx 500 gold each 3 more spots available.

there will also be the people who have finished the game with a lot of gold who will happily put down 1k per town while they do something else.

there is a market for this and people with the means to use it.

you are simply adding another nitch to the feeding chain

hidden_agenda · Jan 12, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

1) Anet has already said that short-cuts (such as running) are legal. If you think about it, for those of us who's already finished the game multiple times, having to grind through the same exact thing to get to the stuff we want is really not worth it. In the long run it's more likely to harm then help the game since more people would get bored and stop playing.

2) Supposedly most players have less than 20k -- if that was the case, then the cost to get into the high-end areas through running is already pretty high for new players (~15+k) -- so I am not sure what the issue is.

3) If you feel this is a legit suggestion, you should put it in the Sardelac forum instead of here (that's what that forum is for).

4) To be blunt -- your attitude is annoying. If you post up a suggestion / idea, then the assumption is for others to point out and criticize the flaws within the idea. Are you actually serious about a discussion or are you just trying to put out flamebait?

Boxterduke's comment is perfectly legit -- if you start from Iron Mines to get to Grotto, you'll find your way blocked by several groups of Mursaat. At this point, the Iron Mines hench are NOT-infused, and they die quickly from Spectral Agony. The fact thsi happens certainly does not warrant your comment that he / she "suk as a player."

What Boxterduke says is a legitimate issue -- that if a player barely made it to an area, getting in should be straight-forward, not another task. you should consider that most of the map had been designed WITHOUT your suggestion in mind. Certainly, for brand new areas, your suggestion might well work -- but this is not the case for existing maps.

Savio · Jan 12, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

If I see any more flaming, then this thread will be closed.

Sekkira · Jan 12, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I have everything against running personally. I have my reasons, I don't run anywhere, but if someone wants to be run or run people, I wont barrage them in the district or whisper. It's not my business.

This idea though is quite stupid. Red Sonya, you're blaming him sucking? Let me tell you about some of my encounters with henchies.

I used to have an Elementalist, I went through the game and it was hard (especially considering the Desert), but I eventually done it. I put this down to me being new at the game. Next character, a Necro, I practically waltzed through the game. I naturally put this down to my improvement on learning the game.

Two characters later, I decided to redo my ele, sure enough I have the same trouble as I did with henchmen. No, it was in fact, worse. This is talking about after the 'Improvements' to henchman AI. You remember how they used to run off after spawning and disappear into mountains never to return? Alesia refused to heal my Ele, EVER. I'd get poisoned at the start of battle and during it, the battle would end with everyone standing, while my health slowly goes down from half way due to poison and I eventually die. What's worse is that as soon as I died from a result of no healing, I would be ressed instantly, regardless of the situation. Which usually left no healing to the rest of the team.

With henchies like this, the desert was the most challenging it had been so far. In fact, it's gotten worse each time I decide to redo a character to the point where playing my new warrior, I literally cannot go anywhere with Henchman. They die, they let me die, they res and they die. I'm not even talking about the second mob in the area yet.

Now tell me, am I a bad player when the entire team of henchies decides to stand on a bridge being hexed to death while I'm trying to call targets a bit in front to get them off that bridge so they don't die? Is it my fault that Alesia stands there laughing at me dying of poison as if she has no energy and then making no hesitation to hit restore life on me in the middle of battle when I died of it?

How do you suppose I'd get to Marhan's Grotto with henchies like this and everyone has no patience so they get run everywhere instead of actually playing the game?

mattjones527 · Jan 12, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

I for one love this idea of keys, From what the OP is saying the quests sound like they will be easy. So im guessing in 30~1hr I could easily make a new char do all those quests up to the forge, through beacons with guild help of course. Then I'm Sure I could sell those things for 50K+ once the inital supply runs out from all the current lvl 20's. Or perhaps a faster way of money would just be to farm piken, grendich and yaks "keys" and then offer a run with keys included.

So really this idea would suck horribly for new people making new characters or anyone new to the game. But for me it would be an easy exploitable profit.

/not signed

Shut Your Mouth · Jan 12, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I for one don't like the whole running thing, but it will always be a part of GW.I know not to accept a lvl 20 player into a group that does'nt have the basic skill's( monk without any basic healing skills in the skill bar) available to complete the quest(Sure sign of someone being run/power leveled) OK so you have a lvl 6-7 character in War camp. Just don't accept him/her into your group.

VGJustice · Jan 12, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I agree profusely with boxterduke. But, I got one up on you: I went SOLO the first time I ACCEDENTLY got to Groto. I didn't even know it was there, I got a lucky respawn next to the portal. If there was a quest item needed just to get into the towns, then I would have basicly been punished for exploring rather than rewarded, lucky or not.

/not signed, let the runners be

Red Sonya · Jan 12, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

20 k was an arbitrary figure.

try this on for size as a counter.

runners trying out new builds running for 500g-1k to the next town which gives them a couple k each time for a trip they were making anyway.

someone bored who wants to impress the noobs for tips.

check out the price range on runs now as well as the specialized short haul people.

quest for xxx 500 gold each 3 more spots available.

there will also be the people who have finished the game with a lot of gold who will happily put down 1k per town while they do something else.

there is a market for this and people with the means to use it.

you are simply adding another nitch to the feeding chain

Great I wanna see you solo Talus Chute to get the keys and besides to get the keys "everyone" must goto the quest npc and touch him/her and then return to the sentinel. Ain't gonna be no sitting at the zones no more with this idea. No touch the quest npc, no get a key, no enter city.

Sorry but it would take a large group even to do talus chute to get to the quest npc that gives the keys. You're passenger base would deminish by at least 4 or 5 since you only get 6 slots out of Beacons Perch and it would require other qualified players to help kill the mobs to even get to the quest npc. Thus that means "splitting" up the profits in a long drawn out affair just to run 1 or 2 people to another city. Easier said than done. Talus Chute is no easy zone to go wandering around in and especially fight in outside of an orgainzed group.

The rich will find a way to run it no matter what, but, the new, nope they won't even have the 2k hardly for the run. And then don't forget the SCAMMERS. would you give 20k to someone before the mission is complete? Would you trust someone to give you 20k after you complete the mission. Heh the higher the price of the run the less TRUST there will be in both the runner and the runee's. I've thought it out very carefully.

Try again....rethink your thinking eek!

Also what you are forgetting or leaving out is you first have to have the skills to do the run, then you also have to have the skills to do the fighting once you do the run. Ain't gonna happen in Talus Chute run from Beacons Perch, you'll just be a wasted player with no combat skills that will be able to run around in a circle and do little else to finish the key quest.

EternalTempest · Jan 12, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Other then finding a way for Drak Armor / Elites showing up in the starting arena's (which I'm against).

I have nothing against running in fact (as other people have stated), Anet has set up the game to be this way.

As time goes on with more and more chapters, the time required to go through the game + expansion games.

Think about this, if you have Chapter 1,2 & 3 and to get ALL the skill for your profession (PvE), you start in chapter 1 then jump to chapter 2, then jump to chapter 3....

If you played chapter 1 (3-5) times over already.. do you want to go throught it again the long way to be honest.

Red Sonya · Jan 12, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

[If you played chapter 1 3-5 times over already.. do you want to go throught it again.]

I think I already covered this in a post above. When you played Morrowind or Neverwinter Nights did you play not the story over again when you started a new character? Did you jump to Chapter IV of Neverwinter Nights right off the bat? Did you rush to any content? (providing of course you have played Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights).

If this were a "pay to play" type mmorpg, yeah buddy I'd be all in favor of any advantages, but, since it's not and much like Morrowind or Neverwinter Nights and oh Dungeon Siege I & II, I see no reason to allow running the content.

I also covered that these people running through the content now are doing it because others have done it before them and these people are playing their FIRST character. Thus they don't know how to play their character, they don't know how to use their skills effectively and they are at Temple of Ages getting into groups not knowing crap about the game.

When you stop the running these people are going to have to learn how to play in steps, not be teleported to the end game and not know a hill of beans.

Rha Carnak · Jan 12, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Red Sonya,

The simple truth is that Anet designed the game to be able to skip missions/town. There are a lot more routes than just the droknar's forge run. Just answer 1 question. Why would the developers even put these particular routes in the game if they didn't want runners? I particularly like the whole idea of being able to run and skip missions/towns. This is another unique "kewl" thing about GuildWars that is not available in other MMO's or RPG's. This idea of running has spawned a whole profession/school/guilds and yes many people take advantage of it. Do people abuse this, maybe. Anet's answer was to make the droknar's run harder, not to eliminate it or to put in totally unecessary entrance quests/missions or to discourage new players. If your aim is to make the droknar's forge run more difficult/challenging then this topic seems totally off base.

Have you ever tried to run this or any place for that matter? How about recently? If you do, then you will notice that the wurm spawns are much more frequent and they aggro for a much greater range.

What is your real goal here? To discourage/hamper the running profession or to try to keep people from abusing the system by having low characters get armor/weapons?

Meneldil · Jan 12, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Red Sonya:
Well, I am not sure why you are sooo concerned about other players running around, but I like the way it is. No offense at all, by the way. I'm just saying, you know, I just made another character, and I really don't want to spend ALL MY TIME doing those missions OVER and OVER again, because I have already experienced that on my first and main character.

Armor restrictions... hmm, well I don't know. Actually here is an idea:
To obtain a better armor, you have to do a quest for it, and the quest is usually for more experienced characters so you will usually fail when you go on that quest. <-- I don't know... I just thought that up really fast, but I don't want armor level restrictions level-wise (like you have to be level 15 to have studded leather 70-armor or something like that)

Running doesn't hurt the games reputation at all, and it's a good way to make money fast. When you don't have much time to play, running is a good solution. I have to play my games fast, because I have a busy life, it's hard to just sit and play for me. That is where running comes in. I need my new char to skip a lot of stuff and get him to a place where I can enjoy playing? Running. I need money, and can't spend time farming all day? Running.

Sir Green Aluminum · Jan 12, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

This is'nt Morrowind or Neverwinter nights. This is Guild Wars! Land of the Non-grinding, free to play ascalonians. And if my fellow Ascalon wealthy cannot get a run to a place, then this is not the game I love! *Salutes Guild Wars Box*

Not everyone who is run is clueless about the game, and I doubt the first time players would even be able to afford a complete run to Ember light.

And what about running/completing missions? Do you need a key or quest at the end of the mission?

I like this thread, it's turned into a hot running topic so I did'nt have to create one.

Loviatar · Jan 12, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

the main objection is that super jerks get their kicks by being run to get Drok armor and elite skilla at a low level(3 example) and then going into the lowest level arenas and wiping the noobs off the map.

my suggestion is simply that DROK armor PERFECT HIGH STAT WEAPONS and HIGH LEVEL SKILLS simply be grayed out in low level arenas.

suddenly the jerk goes into a match he knows he will win has

no drok armor
no max stat weapon
no max stat off hand artifact
no high level skills

SURPRISE

the noobs kill him/her and PVP is a better place

Sir Green Aluminum · Jan 12, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I belive that max dmg weapons and off-hands have attribute requirements of around >8, lvl 3s can't use them.

Loviatar · Jan 12, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Green Aluminum

I belive that max dmg weapons and off-hands have attribute requirements of around >8, lvl 3s can't use them.

i am corrected.

please substitute the highest low req weapon useable along with the top offhand item which is still much more than the new players have.

plus with the Drok armor they can just stand there and not be harmed

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jan 13, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Why are people always out to dictate how others play the game? If it's not cheating, unbalancing or hurting your gameplay in any way, why should you care how others play?

I havent been run yet but I may decide on it later on but I don't see how runners or people being run are hurting the game.

And flaming people who justifiably think it's a hassle to do yet another quest just to get into town is pretty damn (insert your own insult here)