Curse

Weezer_Blue · Nov 19, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

(I made this thread at TGH and everyone seemed to like the idea, so I decided to get your oppinions...)

The basic idea is a melee weapon (for instance, a Rapier) with the exact same stats as a Wand/Staff, but it would be for casters. Just incase you don't get it: Warrior skills (ie, interupting attack) would not work with these weapons.

Why? Cause when you're using a caster that has spells that rely on close range (for instance, a smiter using Holy Strike with Signets), it is extremely troublesome (especially in PvP when people run) to stay in Melee/Touch range of your opponent. If you have a build like this, you have two options: Either use a staff/wand and manually (and painfully) stay in range, or, as most people do: Use a sword which you have no attributes for to stay in range - which means you lose all those "20% chance", things.

For example, a Mesmer would probably use a Rapier (seems fitting. Weak in combat, but fancy, etc.) which would have the stats 11-22 (staff max). It would still do pretty much what a wand does, except it could be used to trigger Illusionary Weaponry, rather than a crappy sword you have no attributes in.
A monk could use a Bo/Jo staff, a Necro could use a Scythe/Sickle, an Elementalist could use a Mace or something, and so on. They shouldn't be already existing melee weapons with a cheap-lazy-game-developement-glow around them.

Anyway you get the idea... Or if you don't, read it again. And then go take an English class or something.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 19, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I agree tenfold. If the weapon doesn't exceed any stats the rods/staffs have, I'm all for this idea. I think the big idea here is just giving casters a melee weapon with ~approx the same attack speed as a warrior weapon, in which case, again, I'm all for, but it'd have to utilize more attack time, or less damage, if this were the case warriors wouldn't be needed.

--The Shim

Hot Dead · Nov 19, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

The caster melee weapons have the max dmg of a max dmg wand/staff but the attacking speed of a hammer (or a bit faster)
so I agree
/signed

NatalieD · Nov 20, 2005, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Sounds good, except the weapons should be, like, daggers, or something similarly less practical than the warrior weapons. It would be really weird to have swordsmanship skills not work with a rapier.

Slade xTekno · Nov 20, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I think it'd be easiest if we made the melee weapons identical to wands in terms of damage, requirements, and attack speed.

However, I think this would simply be an extraneous feature.

Weezer_Blue · Nov 20, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Uhh... I don't understand. This is a different sort of caster weapon that's pretty much the same, except for the melee range requirement. I think a warrior or ranger should do better base damage cause that's all their damage.

As for daggers or something... A rapier is a pretty weak sword. You could easily slice one in half with a battle harded sword, and other than perhaps skills like Reposte (which has a fencer on it, by the way), using sword skills like Sever Artery and Gash would be illogical. The most you can do with a rapier is stab someone, and unless you hit them in a critical area, it won't be fatal. Daggers wouldn't really fit casters well, imo.

Weezer_Blue · Nov 20, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Cough*Ahem*Bump*Cough

NatalieD · Nov 20, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

As for daggers or something... A rapier is a pretty weak sword. You could easily slice one in half with a battle harded sword, and other than perhaps skills like Reposte (which has a fencer on it, by the way), using sword skills like Sever Artery and Gash would be illogical. The most you can do with a rapier is stab someone, and unless you hit them in a critical area, it won't be fatal.

Yeah that's... that's not at all true. Rapiers are quite adequate for killing people, on or off a battlefield. That's what they're for. Don't confuse modern fencing foils and epees with real weapons.

Quote:

Daggers wouldn't really fit casters well, imo.

I think at the very least they'd be quite appropriate for necromancers...

I didn't mean that they should all be daggers, necessarily. I'm just saying, it would make more sense for the caster weapons to be the sort of smaller, more convenient, less battlefield-practical weapons that would be favored by someone who isn't generally a front-line soldier. Like a dagger, or a truncheon/baton/jo/whatever. Long staves, rapiers, and maces are the sort of thing I would expect to see on a warrior.

nightrunner · Nov 20, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I'm thinking very ornate, bloody sacrificial daggers for necros, rapiers for mesmers, staffs for monks and eles. And I think there should be a big morningstar or chain mace model hammer for warriors

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 21, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightrunner

I'm thinking very ornate, bloody sacrificial daggers for necros, rapiers for mesmers, staffs for monks and eles. And I think there should be a big morningstar or chain mace model hammer for warriors

Bloody Sacrificial Daggers eh? Have we played everquest before? <Insert hearty laugh>

But seriously good ideas all around.

--The Shim

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Nov 21, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

I'm thinking this would make Mesmer IW builds alot more interesting.

NatalieD · Nov 21, 2005, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I'm thinking this would make Mesmer IW builds alot more interesting.

I don't see that it would change them very much, actually. They'd do a bit more damage when IW isn't up, that's all.

Actually, if the caster melee weapons have all the same stats as wands, then no IW mesmer who knows what she's doing would even use one. Regular swords have a faster attack rate.

DeanBB · Nov 21, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I like this idea as it makes it much easier to get a monk or elementalist into range for a point blank area spell, like inferno or symbol of wrath. Right now I'm using one of the no requirement crystaline-like swords from pre-searing for this so it would be cool to have a weapon for the actual class.

Thunderbolt300 · Nov 21, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Now don't get me wrong- sounds like a great idea. Personally I'm an elementalist and I love using point-blank spells and I've had trouble getting myself into close range in order to properly nuke. So- I switched to a sword (one of those +5 energy swords sold in Henge for a while before it was patched) and I get the energy bonus off the sword anyway, and I used that in combat for a while, until I got ahold of a longsword with a zealous enchantment and an enchantment duration extension. Magical properties on swords still apply even if you don't meet the requirement to use them!

The only boon to being proficient with the weapon is the damage increase. Damage from a weapon isn't all that important to me, though.

Weezer_Blue · Nov 22, 2005, 02:54 AM // 02:54

That's really the least important thing to me. The important part is weapons with things such as "Faster Recharge (20% Chance), Faster Cast (20% Chance)" on them. These upgrades give you the edge in a battle. There are no swords with good energy mods either. Also, there should be a 1 and 2 handed version of each.

Also, if there is a war that was fought completely with rapiers, I haven't heard of it. Most of them are either false edged or have no edge and make horrible slicing weapons except with the tip. And you might as well use a spear otherwise. Ranking on battle weapons, Rapiers fall pretty close to the bottom, from everything I have seen.

SilenceWeaver · Nov 22, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

this would definitely be quite fun.
im also going to agree with arcanus that this would make my IW baby possibly more powerful or fun to play.
while the attack might not be the same as a sword, the extra energy/mods on the caster weapon might offset that and create a new type of IW mesmer that could say, be an illusionist and an IW (really all u need for IW is IW itself, flurry, distortion, and IoW, and maybe say heal sig) that would leave 2-3 slots that could be used for illusion stuff.
anywho, getting off topic, /signed in support of caster melee waepons.

Jigs · Nov 22, 2005, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Sounds good, except the weapons should be, like, daggers, or something similarly less practical than the warrior weapons. It would be really weird to have swordsmanship skills not work with a rapier.

i agree, the secondary weapons for casters should be like daggers and small clubs. they are casters and they are not proficient in using full melee weapons. Ex: snipers dont have any automatic rifles with them. they have a knife and a hand gun ( this is not just an idea from Counter strike), snipers have "spotters" who have the automatic rifle and also helps therm in spotting targets. and face it, casters cannot very well cast spells when they are on full melee.

Laurelin Goldtree · Nov 22, 2005, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Dead

The caster melee weapons have the max dmg of a max dmg wand/staff but the attacking speed of a hammer (or a bit faster)
so I agree

How about the caster melee weapons had the exact same stats as their wand/staff counterparts? Same dmg range (11-22), same attack speed, same TYPE of dmg (fire dmg like a fire wand, chaos dmg like a mesmer's cane, etc), EVERYTHING exactly the same.

Then, you could include some larger weapons that would be stand-ins for staves...Obviously, you don't want to give someone a staff substitute (ie a sword) that allows them to carry an off hand item-so to balance it, you could make the staff equivalencies big and heavy (same swing rate as a normal staff)-just animated to be 2-handed.

IE Willcrusher converted to melee could be a big, bulky sword:

Korvald's Willcrusher (could be a hammer type weapon)
Chaos Damage 11-22 (req 9 Domination)
Energy +10
Improves Skill Recharge Time Using Dom Skills (20% Chance)
Energy +5
Health +30
Quick Recovery from Dazed
Two-Handed

It would only change the look of the staves/wands in game and one's range...it'd have it's own ups and downs..."Yay! I don't have to lose my extra energy to carry a sword for IW" and "Oh no! I'm too close and they're killing me!"

so...yeah, defintely signed...I want a pretty little feminine sword like the mesmer in the game guide has...

EagleEye33 · Nov 22, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

I dont find this Idea that great, it seems like your just trying to give your caster more power to make things a lot easier for u

Chev of Hardass · Nov 22, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Hmm, a little buff to the players so that they don't need to think...............

I am ok with this, IF they add a Strength/Tactics Staff and Wand and Off-hand. IF they add a Wilderness Survival/Expertise Staff and Wand and Off-hand

Seems like you are forgetting the Trapping rangers without any damage output from their staffs.

Really, I think you are using a Aftershock combo, don't want to think about where your target is and just want to mash buttons, but hey, that's just my oppinion.