Curse

Ensabah Nur · Jan 31, 2006, 12:49 PM // 12:49

I searched, didn't find anything close so here's my post

From Merriam Webster:
Main Entry: guild
Pronunciation: 'gild
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gilde, from Old Norse gildi payment, guild; akin to Old English gield tribute, guild.
: an association of people with similar interests or pursuits; especially : a medieval association of merchants or craftsmen
- guild·ship /'gil(d)-"ship/ noun

Now if my history serves me correct back in ye olden days, to become a member of a guild a prospective member had to A) Prove that they was worthy of being in the guild(Demonstrate thier skills). B)Buy thier way into the guild with a membership fee. and C)Donate a portion of thier income to the guild(AKA membership dues).

So if you ask me Anet has it backwards, it should be the prospective members paying to get into a guild not the recruiters, this mayhaps would decrease the amount of people that hop guilds as they may ask more questions/check out guilds websites/adventure with guild members before deciding to join or not. For the record my officers and I mostly recruit new members while helping them out in quests/missions or if a member refers them to us.

I propose that the current system of a recruiter paying 100 gold to invite someone into the guild stay in place but add to that system that the recrutee(prospective member) pay 500 gold or 1 plat when they accept the invite(The 500 gold or 1 plat goes to the Guild Leaders account for a Guild Fund used for helping out Guildmates). This will still keep the Recruiting Spamming down and make players less likely to hop guilds and more likely to put some effort into the guild because they have invested in it. Just a suggestion, actually looking forward to hearing responses.

Edit: Another forum made me aware of this and since I didn't think about it myself felt it should be included here:

Anet should make it so when a member quits a guild, the departing member pays 100 gold which goes to the Guild Fund(Guild Leaders account). Also we would really like to see in the guild status window when a member quits, like we can see when they join, this would help us maintain our roster.

leeky baby · Jan 31, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

no i think the guild leader should pay, and for guild hoppers they just trying to find the one which they like alot.

I dont think the money should go to the guildleader cause he could just kick them after and he / she has made 1k easy money.

Or you have to pay to kick people aswell :d

Kaguya · Jan 31, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Um. Um. No.

This isn't medieval Europe, and 'Guild' term shouldn't be taken that literally from history books.

How do people 'get interested in a guild' without anyone adverting it so they want to join, if not for looking at Observe and seeing the guild battles, thinking that 'yea that guild is kickass I want to join them'... Which isn't going to happen as 'top' guilds usually are rather small and tight circle of talented peeps. I think, I don't know, I haven't been in such 'top' guild.. heck, I don't even PvP atm

And guild hopping, it happens just because simply put, some guilds SUCK. People have to go through multiple guilds before finding one they even remotely like, and would have to pay gold every time they get into a sucky guild.

This could work, say, if the recruiter spams as normal, invites you to guild as a 'trainee' who isn't full member just yet, so you could get a feel of the guild, and then pay the whatever entry fee to be full fledged member.. But what's the use?

And as leeky said, recruit, get gold, kick. D'oh.

Ensabah Nur · Jan 31, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I can see the potential for abuse, but any Guild Leader that would kick people after taking thier money won't have a guild, get any members for long before word got out. I know for one I as a Guild Leader couldn't sink that low. EDIT: Mayhaps Anet can police this kind of activity, especially if reported. END EDIT.

I can also understand the hard time players may have finding a guild they like, but this would make those players, not join just "any" guild and do some research, many times I'll get potential recruits and suggest they visit our website and or talk to current members to see if we are the guild for them and they will not bother, but will accept the invitation only to be gone the next day. Usually because we won't just give them gold or items(we help them farm & adventure) "Hmmmm, we just invited you into the guild 25 seconds ago and you're already asking to borrow "X" amount of gold?" I have personally given thousands of plats to guildmates, that have proven themselves most are still in my guild. I know my officers have been generous to a fault, one giving 3.5 plat to help a "new member" (less than 30 minutes in the guild) get new armor, after the gold exchanged hands, just before "member" quit this was the message that "member" sent "Ha ha Suxxor". So now that Officer was out 3.6 plat(the recruiting 100g) because of one jerk, granted he learned a lesson and it was his fault for being so generous, but this has happened and still does to many guilds so often. Which is why we've mostly adopted the stance of we will help you gather the needed gold/items but not just "give" it to you, that's when the new member can say "OK, cool, thanks" or as has happened "OMGZ, you suxx, your guild suxx etc" and then they quit.

The idea of a Trainee or Recruit, before becoming a full fledged member is a good one(no gold should be spent either way to invite someone as a recruit/trainee). I think that's what Anet had in mind when they created "guests", if so "guests" should be able to see/type in guild chat as well.

My officers are not allowed to kick anyone, they contact me for any "disiplinary actions" usually the offending guild member will quit before I can even take any actions(Usually I give a warning for a first offense, A demotion in clan rank for a 2nd, and only in a third or drastic offense will I kick someone. The only other reason I would kick a member is for AWOL over 3 weeks( Inactivity over 3 weeks without prior notification)

As for Guild Leaders/officers having to pay to kick someone from the Guild, why? one of them already paid to get them in.

EDIT: From another forum;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cérilia

As for the fee I think it should go both ways: leader/officer pays for you to enter and you pay to leave (in both case money is wasted... not given to someone else to avoid scams).

/signed a few billion times. Recruiter pays the game to recruit member to guild, member pays game to leave guild. Sounds good to me. END EDIT.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 01, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Please disregard my post about Ye Olden Days.Although it was a decent idea, I can see the potential for problems with it. The following is a much better idea:

Recruiter pays the game 100 gold to recruit member to guild, member pays game 100 gold to leave guild.

Really it's not a matter of the gold, it's more an issue of commitment, loyalty. Paying 100 gold to invite someone into the guild doesn't hurt the bank accounts of most leaders/officers of most guilds. Inviting players that only want to join as many guilds as they can in search of handouts from their new guildmates is definatly more of the problem, and those players would be less likely to hop guilds if they too had to pay 100 gold to leave a guild.

Kaguya · Feb 01, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

100 gold, unfortunately, doesn't buy loyalty. It only hinders newbie's ability to hop guilds, and newbies most likely are the ones to get lost into 'bad' guilds, more experienced people just go outside to quest area, slay 4 mobs, sell the loot for 100 gold and leave the guild. Newbie prolly values 100g much more than an experienced player with tons of gold.

There's no way to 'study' a guild before joining it currently, unless they have a forum where you can lurk around a bit, and even that doesn't guarantee anything how the guild is ingame.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 01, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Kaguya, do ya have something constructive to post? Something to add/improve the idea, if so I'd love to hear it.

Kaguya · Feb 01, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

I understand what you are trying to get with the idea, but to have anything that is even remotely like this would be implementing quite a few other ideas first.

a) Introduce new Guild ranks. Mainly an 'applicant'-rank. Player with this rank doesn't have _any_ Guild benefits yet, other than the Guild's channel. Inviting to the Guild costs 100 gold, and the gold is returned to the recruiter IF the player decides to accept the invitation, and remains in the Guild for certain time. If the invitation isn't accepted, or the player doesn't hang around in the guild, this money is lost. (Of course, you have to accept the invitation first to get to the Guild channel, so there won't be unpleasant suprises to unguilded people. Open for ideas how promotion from Applicant to Member should happen, maybe officer promotes, and applicant has to accept this promotion to full fledged guild member.)

b) Improve guilds, create a simple description, objective/agenda for the Guild, and these could be seen by selecting a player of the guild and typing a command '/guild info' or something similar.

c) Add a notice board near the Guild Emblemer/Guild starterNPC, where guilds could mark themselves as 'looking for new members', with a possible list of recruitment officers online. Also Guild description/agenda fields are listed. This notice board would be just a simple list with name of the guild, short description field, possibly amount of members etc)

Problems are with inappropriate Guild descriptions tho, and would require additional policing, tho with sufficient policies about this could work (changing description costs X gold, inappropriate descriptions lead to blank description, an possibly locked unchangeable for a while)

RBK · Feb 01, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

:
Recruiter pays the game 100 gold to recruit member to guild, member pays game 100 gold to leave guild.

I think this is a good idea and that some thought has go into it. The only thing is I can see good points in all the posts.

Although I agree with the payment to leave the guild but why does the recruiter have to pay to have someone join. Especially if it’s only 100gp. Isn’t that a rather pointless amount of money?

And as for the researching on guilds, do you think it would be possible for Anet to arrange some kind of watching area for a limited amount of people to watch the desired guild. For example if someone wanted to join ‘X’ guild but didn’t know if it was worth joining. They could watch a few of there PvP battles and then ask for and invite?

Or same idea however the guild would send invites to people (that asked for them or if the guild just wants some friends to watch) to watch that game? I don’t know if this is the answer but I have found by reading post I have come the conclusion that people guild hope because of lack of activity within the guild or once they have joined they realised that the guild isn’t for them and lots of other reasons.

So maybe with this idea or and idea like this might temped people to stay, as they would have a better ‘feel’ and idea of what the guild is about instead of which guild has the better looking cape.

Vilaptca · Feb 01, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Eh...as a so called "Guild Hopper" I wouldn't want anything like this added to the game, until they can improve guilds in general. The post above me mentions a way to search for recruiting guilds. This would stop people like me from joining up with a guild, finding out that its crap and then leaving. This would also stop random invites (the 100g fee almost stopped this, but still happens on occasions).

If more guild ranks were added, that would be nice too. The post above me mentioning the rank of applicant is great. But to expand on it, I would say its free to join a guild and be an applicant for a certain time period, and then if they like you, they pay to have you join and it upgrades you to member. If you quit as an applicant, no fee, but quitting as a member would require a fee, just the 100g to kind of pay the recruiter back.

Kaguya · Feb 01, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBK

Especially if it’s only 100gp. Isn’t that a rather pointless amount of money?

I think it's there to prevent guilds from tab-invite-tab-invite-tab-invite, ie. sending invites to everyone and their pet poodle in the area.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 01, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Hey Vilaptca, the only true way to improve guilds is for members to improve them. A guild is only as good as it's members, if those members don't put in any effort(stick around long enough to put in any effort) then those guilds won't be very good. I still have members of AOA(my clan) that have been with me for over 6 years and several games.

I agree with Kaguya, Anet implemented the 100g fee to recruit to try and curb the Spam inviting.

Mandy Memory · Feb 01, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Too many people accept and then quit...totally wasting my 100 gp I think they should have some tie to the guild as well.