Curse

CKaz · Feb 10, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Given the eles (arguably over) reliance on enchantments to keep chugging (and per other threads, still questionable in terms of sustained DPS or indeed even front-loaded damage) this seems to be an oversight which could have been, and could still be, rather helpful.

Why not a signet in the energy storage line (and no, not elite :b) to the tune of allowing for an energy boost every so often? Maybe another one for powering up for a little mojo? Sure Glyphs were created and eles are the only ones with them, but it only works on the very next spell. Monks were the only ones with a maintain enchantment (well until the assassin...

) yet got the very nice energy management signet in their primary attrib line.

Signets could have been in each line too, and heck a bunch more variety ie

Fire - target enemy starts burning for 1-8sec
OR how about a signet or spell providing say a damage shield for self/target ally

Water - target enemy is slowed for 1-8sec (hex or even 'crippled' by the cold)
OR enemy attacks slower for X seconds (signet or spell would have been nice)

Earth - target ally's attack knocks down their target for 1-8sec
OR maybe this was the conjure earth they are missing (longer duration/less frequent?)

Air - target ally's attack does 25% armor penetration for 8-18sec
OR again this could be a spell, maybe a air signet 'blows' off an enchantment

I hope chp2 gives them some love, but 10 skills/15 elites is likely to hardly put a dent in it, particularly if they're focusing on cross-ele line synergies, which will only detract from energy storage and more point out the insane fact that elementalists don't have energy armor

I REALLY hope chapter 2 addresses that

Sol_Vie · Feb 10, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

That fire signet is way to powerful. Burning for 8 seconds? Unless you want that to be elite and take 3-5 seconds to cast... no way.

Kai Nui · Feb 10, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Res Signet... plus you do have a secondary always (unless you're stupid) which will have signets no doubt. I don't really think it impacts the elementalist class too much because they have ENERGY STORAGE. I think that they designed it that way, plus no other class has Glyphs.

Cherno · Feb 10, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Probably because most of those things are available in some form in the ele skill list or as part of a secondary profession, even in signets.

If there is anything that an ele can usually afford to be a little lax on is energy managment. While not completely ignoring it, an ele can afford to go a short stint while in the heat of battle to let their enchants go down or not use their glyphs.

I don't see a need for them. What I would like to see is a sustained buff to attributes like Awaken the blood instead of the glyph. But even the glyph is ok as it recharges very quickly. Just annoying to have to keep casting one, then casting another spell, casting glyph, cast spell, etc.

CKaz · Feb 10, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

All it does is burn and I scaled it through attrib @16
If *all* it does is burn, why not?
I didn't mention cast or recharge time.

No I'd rather have it nerfed than made elite, thats a BIG part of the ele's problem, all the really good stuff is elite, and you get one.

Keep in mind that's all it does, no base damage, and if duration goes too low even with attribs to max it goes on the junk pile. Anyways just thoughts.

I'd more suprised for lack of damage shield - most other classes can provide such a trick. Say ala immolate (demon hunter wc3) but can drop it on another class, frost armor (lich wc3) similiarly, etc. An air one that occasionally stuns (so here interrupt, more frequent), an earth one that (even less) occasionally knocks them down.

Just seems like there's a lot of fun stuff that's missing.

CKaz · Feb 10, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Hmm bunch more comments coming through but doesnt seem from long-term eles and/or my post isn't fully getting read. Oh well, it's out there.

TGIF!

Loviatar · Feb 10, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

dont the glyphs of lesser energy take their place?

Praetor Zeratul · Feb 10, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

if ele's had there own signets..i dont think anyone would use them

. but thats an interesting thing to point out though i never noticed.

Align · Feb 10, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Warriors and Rangers don't get spells either, I don't think its a big deal...

CKaz · Feb 10, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

dont the glyphs of lesser energy take their place?

- takes a second to cast in front of every spell you want to go that route
- costs energy itself to cast
- has its own recharge time

not really, no - there's only one glyph of lesser energy btw
trying to speak to dps and energy management

glyphs are great, I'm a fan, but they have their recharge and time spent
glyph of energy rocks, but is an elite

I guess I'm just coming at it from the HoH/GvG discussion
- protracted fights, their DPS, they have it tough
- double attunements might be your best bet, if kept up and kept on...
- so the first idea (sig of energy) per monk model would be an OPTION...

As well as feeling like there's a lot of stuff the ele could/should have

CKaz · Feb 10, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Align

Warriors and Rangers don't get spells either, I don't think its a big deal...

but something to note.
I might be hard pressed to find any other type of skill that 5 classes have and only one doesn't. Even the monk gets one 'attack'.

and yes as I mentioned, and others, we have glyphs.
other classes have skill types they alone have as well (ie ranger preparations)

just a curiosity, and in thinking about the ele and their protracted energy I thought of the wonderous signet the monk had to sustain healing, and might something like that fit the model to help the ele to sustain dps/nuking.

Ultimate_Gaara · Feb 10, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Please edit rather than double post.

Everyone has their flaws, Monks have no run faster skills, and I don't think Necros do either. Signets would be nice, but they are not needed.

Soul Shaker · Feb 10, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Warriors- ummm....what would they have that's unique?

Ranger- preparations, traps

Mesmer- i have no idea (i would assume hexes, but necro and ele have em too)

Necro- minions

Ele- glyphs

Monk- can heal others, can protect others (though some can do that as well)

and if you haven't really noticed before, the mesmer is loaded with signets...

Racthoh · Feb 10, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Shaker

Warriors- ummm....what would they have that's unique?

Adrenaline.

The suggested singets are far too strong. Knockdown is capped at 4 seconds for a reason.

Mercury Angel · Feb 10, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Sadly, even if there were signets... Due to the prohibitive recharge times on many of the skills, you often end up with downtime auto-managing your energy for you, in conjunction with an already cramped skill bar.

But, I do agree that signet skills would, if nothing else, add to the variety. I'd imagine if they were used, it'd be by elementalist secondaries, due to the prohibitive costs of many of the spells.

_Some ideas for signet skills below_

Air Magic:

Jolt Signet - 0 en, 1/4th cast, 25 recharge
Target foe takes 10+(2x) lightning damage. If that foe is using a skill, they are interrupted and take an additional 5+(x) lightning damage. This skill has 25% armor penetration.

Downwind Signet - 0 en, 2 cast, 30 recharge
Target foe can not evade attacks for 1+(X/2) seconds.

Energy Storage:

Restoration Signet - 0 en, 2 cast, 20 recharge
You are healed for 1+(X/5) times your current energy.

Signet of Reserves {E} - 0 en, 2 cast, 20 recharge
You gain 1+(X/5) energy for each recharging spell.

Fire Magic:

Combustion Signet - 0 en, 2 cast, 25 recharge
Target foe loses 1 enchantment. If one enchantment was lost this way, that foe takes 15+(4X) fire damage and is set on fire for 1-3 seconds.

Conflagration Signet - 0 en, 3 cast, 30 recharge
For the next 1+(X/5) seconds, target foe is set on fire. If that foe was moving when Conflagration Signet's effects would end, Conflagration Signet's effects are renewed for another 1+(X/5) seconds.

Earth Magic:

Oak Signet - 0 en, 3 cast, 30 recharge
Call forth a mighty Oak Tree. Nearby foes take 15+(4X) earth damage. After 6 seconds, Oak Tree returns to the earth, knocking down adjacent foes.

Signet of Thorns - 0 en, 2 cast, 15 recharge
Target foe takes 10+(3X) earth damage and is crippled for 1+(X/2) seconds.

Non-Attribute:

Mind Signet - 0 en, 2 cast, 25 recharge
You gain 5 Energy. If target foe has less energy than you, you gain an additional 5 Energy.

Recovery Signet - 0 en, 5 cast, 25 recharge
Lose 5 Exhaustion.

Water Magic:

Bubble Signet - 0 en, 2 cast, 15 recharge
Send out a slow moving bubble that bursts on contact with target foe, dealing 15+(3X) cold damage to that foe and all nearby foes, and knocking down attacking foes.

Numbing Signet - 0 en, 3 cast, 20 recharge
Target foe moves 15% slower for the next 2+(X/2) seconds.

Kai Nui · Feb 10, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

I mentioned this earlier. ELEMENATLISTS HAVE ENERGY STORAGE. They don't need to worry about their energy with signets for their primary, and they have glyphs which help take off a little of the energy, but since they have a freaking 100ft pool of energy, they seldom use up so many skills so fast that they use up all their energy to 0 that they are desperately trying to find something as trivial as a signet to use.

Mercury Angel · Feb 10, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I mentioned this earlier. ELEMENATLISTS HAVE ENERGY STORAGE. They don't need to worry about their energy with signets for their primary, and they have glyphs which help take off a little of the energy, but since they have a freaking 100ft pool of energy, they seldom use up so many skills so fast that they use up all their energy to 0 that they are desperately trying to find something as trivial as a signet to use.

Energy Storage isn't really energy management though, anymore than Demonic Flesh makes a Necromancer a tank. It extends the time it takes for you to run dry, and helps to combat exhaustion, and that's it.

If you die, and are resurrected by a signet, you end up standing around doing nothing, while you rebuild your energy pool to pay for those nasty 25 cost spells. If you use Ether Prodigy, it's a lot easier to recover, but if you use dual attunements, you do next to nothing until you have about another 10-25 energy (in addition to the 15-20 it took to cast the attunements), when you can resume casting again.

Elementalists have TWO glyphs that manage energy, one of which is elite. Glyph of Lesser Energy gives the equivalent of about a single pip of energy regeneration, while Glyph of Energy gives up to about 3 and helps to counter exhaustion. However, that's at their peak. If you use them on spells like Obsidian Flame, then you're not getting nearly as much as that.

The dependence on energy management skills and need to pack skill bars full of skills to be an effective elementalist 'nuker' [and that's debatable] makes the idea of packing signets moot for elementalist primaries, really. However, I could see secondaries considering them to enhance their own skill bars.

NatalieD · Feb 11, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

I'd like to see some simple damage-dealing signets with low damage but low recharges as well. Sort of like an energy-poor-man's version of Flare or whatever. Just to give elementalists something to do that doesn't eat up their scarce energy.

Glyphs have nothing to do with signets, so please stop mentioning them.

Skuld · Feb 11, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Those are incredibly strong signets Oo

I don't feel there is any need for ele signets, the spells are fine as they are.

calamitykell · Feb 13, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Uh, no offense... but if you're really dying for energy storage...

go E/Me, if Energy Storage isn't enough.