Curse

bobrath · Sep 17, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I figured Beacon's Perch for a go/no-go place as its the last "town" before you can cap elites or reach the higher armor levels. Sure you could change it to "reaching Lions Arch or Camp Rankor or Deldrimor War Camp".... but comeone that's just overly complicated. If we're interested in keeping the Low and Mid arenas cleared of twinked chars... then you have to draw a line somewhere. Make it simple so its easy to understand (and therefore have less loopholes as well!).

Lebdan · Sep 17, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Taken from fansite friday:
A "runner" is someone who helps lower-level players skip through major parts of the game. Guild Wars doesn't prohibit players from taking short-cuts, but the concept of an even playing field for PvP flies out the window when low-level players acquire and use high-end armor or gear in PvP matches. Naturally it gives them a significant advantage. What is ArenaNet's position on "running" and on the perception that the lower-level tournaments are being adversely affected by it?

Guild Wars:
<etc etc>
You've seen a corrective measure taken with the restoration of XP in the arena. When players acquire XP, they level. When they level, they soon "outgrow" the low-level arena. This means that players who are intent on abuse would have to spend a lot of time and a lot of effort to create a new character exclusively for that purpose.
<etc etc>

I do see that there is XP gain for those in arena. But it's not enough. Even with straight victories, you're gonna take at least 3 hours to level up from 7 to 8 in there.

I don't think it's corrective enough.

Whispering Siren · Sep 18, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

A "runner" is someone who helps lower-level players skip through major parts of the game. Guild Wars doesn't prohibit players from taking short-cuts, but the concept of an even playing field for PvP flies out the window when low-level players acquire and use high-end armor or gear in PvP matches. Naturally it gives them a significant advantage. What is ArenaNet's position on "running" and on the perception that the lower-level tournaments are being adversely affected by it?

There are a few ways to handle this problem. The most obvious is to set level restrictions on items. This would immediately block the use of items not intended for low-level players, so that even if players had done a "run" to acquire the higher-level items or armor, they would not be allowed to equip them. But there are negative factors in doing that, principal amongst them the facts that setting level restrictions and closing off "running" options would make it difficult for players to level up their 2nd and 3rd characters in cases where they wish to do so without playing through the game. And of course it would mean that players could not get cool stuff they want in their own timeframe or might need to tote it for a while before using it.

An additional way to solve this problem is to make running more challenging. This has already been accomplished to a very limited degree with a few modest map modifications. We do not intend to make short cuts impossible—they are a legitimate part of Guild Wars. But we have made it a bit more challenging to accomplish, which will potentially reduce the number of those who do it over and over again for reasons of a less-than-positive nature.

You've seen a corrective measure taken with the restoration of XP in the arena. When players acquire XP, they level. When they level, they soon "outgrow" the low-level arena. This means that players who are intent on abuse would have to spend a lot of time and a lot of effort to create a new character exclusively for that purpose.

And finally, we are considering adjustments to the design of future installments of the game that will also reduce or eliminate the perceived need for running.

From fansite friday... I dont' see how the current fix is ANY sort of fix or how either of the proposed ones would be. We're not talking about stopping runners here completely here - this is just about the low level areans.

PLEASE - ArenaNet - please read this thread and consider these suggestions. We dont' want to limit runners and start that huge war - we just want to stop those that use running as an advantage in low level PvP arenas only.

and on another note - there have been some great suggetions here and minmal flaming (YAY)!! I am glad there is so much support for this. Keep it coming.

Yichi · Sep 18, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebdan

Guild Wars:
<etc etc>
You've seen a corrective measure taken with the restoration of XP in the arena. When players acquire XP, they level. When they level, they soon "outgrow" the low-level arena. This means that players who are intent on abuse would have to spend a lot of time and a lot of effort to create a new character exclusively for that purpose.
<etc etc>

hmm.... this is fun. I went into ascalon last night and a female warrior with cleave, full knights armor, and was lvl 12 with everything with a sup absorbition rune was owning my monk bad, no one on any team could kill her. ok fine so u got run to get skills, and armor, and runes and such. everyone now a days does, but being lvl 12 in the arena shouldnt be allowed. they should have booted you long before you reached that point IMO.

Sofonisba · Sep 19, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebdan

Guild Wars:
<etc etc>
You've seen a corrective measure taken with the restoration of XP in the arena. When players acquire XP, they level. When they level, they soon "outgrow" the low-level arena. This means that players who are intent on abuse would have to spend a lot of time and a lot of effort to create a new character exclusively for that purpose.
<etc etc>

I do see that there is XP gain for those in arena. But it's not enough. Even with straight victories, you're gonna take at least 3 hours to level up from 7 to 8 in there.

I don't think it's corrective enough.

Agreed. I am not satisfied with Anet's answer, and no one has yet explained to me, with any logic or coherence, the justification for using/abusing the ahem, keyword "lower level" arenas in this way.

The thing is, people DO spend a lot of time and a lot of effort twinking to head into lower levels, making the other players' lives miserable. (Actually, the "effort" bit is debatable.)

giroml · Sep 19, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofonisba

Agreed. I am not satisfied with Anet's answer, and no one has yet explained to me, with any logic or coherence, the justification for using/abusing the ahem, keyword "lower level" arenas in this way.

The thing is, people DO spend a lot of time and a lot of effort twinking to head into lower levels, making the other players' lives miserable. (Actually, the "effort" bit is debatable.)

They don't spend time or effort. They spend money and as you know you can achieve an insane amount of money from one lucky drop.

Sofonisba · Sep 19, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by giroml

They don't spend time or effort. They spend money and as you know you can achieve an insane amount of money from one lucky drop.

I'm sorry - I mis-wrote - the time I was referring to, is the time spent killing me over and over again in lower-level arena, and taking forever to level out!

Mariodood · Sep 19, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

While I agree that it's unfair for someone to get an advantage just because they got rushed to Droknars, in reality, there are 4 4v4 arenas, Ascalon, the level 15 one (Forgot name), and the Competition and Team Arenas, but the first two are really just demos of the last two. I mean, you can say it's a problem, but it's a problem that you can avoid by just going to the real arenas. There's a reason why those two arenas get much less faction.

Sofonisba · Sep 19, 2005, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariodood

While I agree that it's unfair for someone to get an advantage just because they got rushed to Droknars, in reality, there are 4 4v4 arenas, Ascalon, the level 15 one (Forgot name), and the Competition and Team Arenas, but the first two are really just demos of the last two. I mean, you can say it's a problem, but it's a problem that you can avoid by just going to the real arenas. There's a reason why those two arenas get much less faction.

I appreciate the input, I do. No offense, but it sounds like you haven’t PvP’d much in Ascalon/Shiverpeaks? Please don’t take the following the wrong way:

I think this thread ought to be contributed to by people who have an opinion, yes or no, about the usage of elites/max armor in the lower level arenas.

So far, those who have expressed an opinion, vote no – nobody really votes “yes to twinkies” out loud. Why is that?

I believe most of us are aware of level 20 random and Team arenas. Those who are against twinkies at lower levels, are sick to death of being told to just go to the higher level arenas. Perhaps it is your personal solution to the problem, just to avoid it altogether, but that is not any sort of argument.

Make your case, if you wish, about why these twinkies ought to be allowed to continue this way – but don’t tell me to leave these arenas, and pretend it is the perfect solution.

Whispering Siren · Sep 20, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariodood

but it's a problem that you can avoid by just going to the real arenas.

Our point is this (and it's simple, really) - those lower arenas are training ground... so you can learn to use the skills you have and BUILD up your skill (as in ACTUAL skill and ability) and your knowledge of how to use your particular character. People who are new to the game or have a new character might actual like to learn to play PvP... I know I would... before getting to level 20 and playing in the "real" arenas. Nevermind the fact that a low level character cannot "avoid" low level arenas and just go to the "real ones." Those are not accessible for a while. The two suggestions that are NOT solultions: "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and "who cares? i don't - you shouldn't, get over it"

These suggestions do not help, don't make them.

Teklord · Sep 20, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

There is something to be said about being given the option to fight in an environment against other players with a limited choice of basic skills/items etc.

This is exactly the same kind of fun that can be found in a few CS:S servers. Pistols only, Snipes Only and the like. Or in Jedi Knight you can set a game to be Sabers only. This has the potential to be as much fun as those areas where you have the access to bring anything you want, and sometimes can bring more enjoyment than such areas.

Again, just so "No" to Twinkies and "Yes" to a perma-fix to DENY their lazy arses access to the lower level arenas.

Whispering Siren · Sep 21, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

/bumpage

Alana · Sep 21, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

This has been a problem for a pretty long time now, so I am personally pretty appalled that this hasn't been fixed yet. I have no problem with people who run their characters to Droknar's and the like. I have never done it and don't plan on doing it, but if that makes you happy, rock on. But taking Droknar's armor and elite skills into those low-level arenas is just obnoxious. I can't imagine being a new player and going in to the Ascalon arena to try out some PvP and having to deal with this.

ArenaNet will lose a lot of players if they don't do something about this soon. A simple flag to not allow you to compete if you have these things would suffice, I think.

I hardly ever PvP, but I really feel badly for those who wish to compete in these lower level arenas and have to deal with immature morons who feel the need to "pwn the n00bs!!!1!!"

Lebdan · Sep 23, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

/bumped

Whispering Siren · Sep 24, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

i know this thread could be considered dead - but i want ArenaNet to see it!!!

/bump

Sofonisba · Sep 24, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

They have seen it, unfortunately.

I just like this thread because it helps me therapeutically. Knowing there are like-minded folks out there really helps a lot.

Sagius Truthbarron · Sep 24, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Two days ago I was playing as my level 15 N/me in Yak's Bend Areana. Everyone on both sides died except for me and a Mesmer that had Illusionary Weaponry and Droknar's Armor. What happened?

I kept slowing him down and not letting him hit me and piling hexes on him as he walked toward me. At the start of the battle I was putting down Blood Wells to heal myself from our dead teamates.

After about 5 minutes he Immagine Burdened me and then put Phantasmal or whatever that -5 degen spell is. I didn't have enough time or energy regen to counter it and I died.

Was it his Elite skill cap or his armor that won him that battle or my lack of such things? Not at all. We had a battle of skill and in the end he got me with pre-searing spells.

Whispering Siren · Sep 26, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

But... if you had been level 10 in ascalon and that same mesmer was fighting you (but they were level 10 or lower, obviously).... would THAT be fair?

it's not fair in Yak's either.

Sofonisba · Sep 26, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

And, perhaps you didn't mind the one-on-one - but what about your dead teammates lying around? Think they didn't mind getting pummeled by IW, only to watch you lose to Phantasm?

infernal · Sep 26, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Touche'!!
Game - Set - Match!!!

Truthbaron? I find your story dubious, at best.
First, Sofi is right; just because he didn't hit you with IW doesn't mean that it didn't affect you or didn't effect the reasons for you losing. Take away that Me/W and you might have had a win!

But he did hit you, didn't he? Blood wells are AOE and static. While you were slowed down and he was slowed down, do you mean to tell us that you remained in a slow waltz dancing around in your well and somehow avoiding any blows or contact?
That you were running and avoiding him is fairly obvious from your post as well.
Why? You seem to indicate that it was an equal battle of skills, but if that were the case, why did you run for five minutes?

I'll tell you why you ran: IW!

Being pwnd is bad.
Being pwnd and not even knowing may be better!
As they say, "..ignorance is bliss!"