Curse

Nazo · Feb 23, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

The game already has the basics of a first person style in place. Roll the mouse scroller up and you´re looking first-person essentially. Hold the right mouse button down all the time and you have a mouse-look (albiet one that will make many hands sore after long enough.) Only thing it can´t already do along these lines is provide some means of doing things like selecting while using mouse-look. Those of you who have played games like Morrowind or even it´s predecessors such as Daggerfall dating back to the 90s have seen how an RPG can do that sort of thing.

Mind you, I´m not saying the game should do this by default or anything, just have an option essentially reversing the current controls and a few minor corrections to make it work right (such as the way the camera messes up when you enter a new area and you have to zoom out and back in as well as the need for a mouse sensitivity control.) It seems to me all this could be done easily with a minor update as it´s just a few minor interface changes more than anything else (heck, they don´t even have to fix the camera thing, just have it automatically roll out one step and then back in one step on entering an area, an inelegant solution, but, functional.)

Really, it´s not so much an improved camera system or anything like that, just a choice for the user to allow for a more immersive feel to enjoy some of the nicer places (like just about all of Pre-Searing practically for example.) Also, a few places have awkward camera angles (man I miss the old system where a camera just glided right through a wall and the wall was untextured on the other side so you could see the character and everything moved smoothly... I will never understand why people who insist on a third person view insist on having the camera be a physical invisible entity that has troubles functioning properly in tight areas.) Obviously a first person view is immune to those annoying camera issues. Doesn´t happen MUCH in GW, but, there are occasions and I believe I read about a PVP arena using this method (I don´t PVP much and won´t until my main character has improved a lot and I´ve gotten the hang of GW more.)

I suggested this through the PlayNC thing and they said I should post in places like this. Honestly, I not sure why they say that since fans aren´t responsible for updates, but, it would be interesting to know how other people feel about the idea. Just bear in mind I´m talking simple changes that would be 100% optional and should be off by default to avoid inconveniencing people.

Blair46 · Feb 23, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

It does sound neat, but if they were to do this, I think they should just make it so when you scroll all the way in, that it becomes a nicer-looking fps view. It looks the coolest with an attacking ranger at the moment, but if they just set the camera so it kinda sticks to the player a bit better, somewhat like a fps game, then that would be fine. They could just make it so the view will stay in that zoomed-in view until you unscroll back out.

All in all, I do not want them to spend too much time on something like this, since more time could be spent on factions and making new quests, items, pvp modes, etc.

Nazo · Feb 23, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I have a suspicion Factions doesn´t need a ton of work done at this point. Well, anyway, other than fixing some stuff such as the way it messes up when entering new areas, I think that adding support for such a thing would involve some pretty minimal amounts of work really.

It does look pretty decent with a ranger, though I find I have to switch away from my current weapon and back to get it to show up in the first persion view.

Blair46 · Feb 23, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

I still just don't think polishing the camera for first-person view will be beneficial in the long run since the camera is fine in 3rd person view, and I would rather see them working on the buggy Z-Axis, as well as, okay, fine, chapter 3.

Nazo · Feb 24, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

That´s why Iḿ saying just have an option which basically reverses things so that when you choose that option, you have to hold the right mouse button to navigate the GUI and just moving around is mouselook. It´s only part of the way there, but, it´s not doing anything more than simply adding an option to reverse the current method.

Katari · Feb 24, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

I'll have to agree. Even though I wouldn't use FPS view much, the current FPS view is sorely lacking. You'd need to have hotkeys to target allies, and a mouse look option. That is the most signifigant failing of the current FPS view. Add a 'Toggle mouselook' key, and enforce hotkeying allies, and you're set. And while all of this would be nice, Guild Wars is simply not designed with it in mind. You need to see the battle as a whole; tunnel vision isn't helpful at all.

The camera angle bit is certainly another problem. I like the idea of having the camera not be a physical entity, and having walls single-sided textures. Ya'know, kinda like parts of certain monk 15k armors. >_<

Nazo · Feb 24, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Actually, hotkeys are already taken care of. V targets nearest ally for example. Like I said, just to give us the basics, they have to do practically nothing.
EDIT: And just to let you know, after you select something, hitting tab cycles through others.

Kai Nui · Feb 24, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

First person... It's already in the game, and it already sucks, no matter what you do. That close up to a fight is just horribly horrible. There's no point, you can't see what's going on behind you, and you don't have a larger view of what's going on. You have a map, yes, but that's just not enough to make FPS mode stink. Scroll your mouse in all the way and play like that, it's already in the game...

optical · Feb 24, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

this is arguably the worst suggestion I've seen on these boards...and there's some pretty awful suggestions here.

Nazo · Feb 24, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Yeah, because we all know that the Elder Scrolls series doesnt work.

Oh well, doesnt matter. I probably not going to be playing GW much when Oblivion comes out. I just thought itd be nice. And, as I kept trying to say, its more for things like immersiveness during areas than for battles, though a few battles might have advantages when it comes to things like weird camera angles.

optical · Feb 24, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

it's just the laziest idea ever. you can already click and target and use skills and do everything you can at other angles in first person view....you just have to release the right mouse button to click.

asking to implement a system so that you don't have to release or push the right mouse button is completely ridiculous

Nazo · Feb 24, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Whats unreasonable about a system that doesnt require you to constantly hold the button down just to look? Ever actually TRIED holding the same mouse button down for long periods of time? Good grief, the way some of you react youd think I asked them to revamp the graphics engine, toss in new weapon models and textures, and make the game look like Oblivion. Its just a simple option to allow a mouse look without constantly holding the right button, nothing more.

Blair46 · Feb 24, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazo

Whats unreasonable about a system that doesnt require you to constantly hold the button down just to look? Ever actually TRIED holding the same mouse button down for long periods of time? Good grief, the way some of you react youd think I asked them to revamp the graphics engine, toss in new weapon models and textures, and make the game look like Oblivion. Its just a simple option to allow a mouse look without constantly holding the right button, nothing more.

The thing is, the way the movement system already is, and selecting skills, selecting players by clicking, yadda yadda, is that if they were to change something as fundamental as this, they would have to go back and recode way too many aspects of the basic code to a lot of different aspects of the game in order to make such a minor change be polished and make sure this fps style has an excellent level of continuity throughout the game. Making ArenaNET add something that only a few would enjoy is insane since I'd rather them add something that we all would enjoy, like more skills and classes, not have to worry about changing a minor thing like mouse movement.

If you want your real, immersive FPS view, there's plenty of FPS games, as well as Oblivion as you mentioned you would just go and play anyways.

There already is a basic FPS view in Guild Wars and it's good enough, since the game is supposed to be played from the 3rd person perspective anyways.

Nazo · Feb 24, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Again. Asking ONLY for an option to allow mouselook right now. No recoding, just an inverse of the current handling of the right mouse button. Nothing more. The rest can wait or never be done, but, at least that much would be a start.

There aren´t plenty of first person RPG games. Oblivion still isn´t out since they delayed it´s release yet again and I dont know about you, but, I for one am kind of tired of Morrowind and its predecessors finally. I mean, its amazingly active and still alive today with many mods and all, but, you can only play the same old game so much before you want something newer with better graphics and such (cant WAIT until we get to see real forests in Oblivion...) I didn´t want first person because I love it SO much I have to play all games in it to such an extent I´ll have to quite playing Guild Wars in favor of Unreal Tournament or something. They aren´t the same genre and can´t be put on the same page together like that.

The basic isn´t good enough because it makes your hands sore. That´s all I´m asking, that the built in thing not make one´s hands hurt. No revamping of game engines, no redesign of the interface, no new graphics code, just a simple extra switch to inverse one control handler. Please people, stop making it more complicated than it is. And let´s be clear, I´m talking about it being optional, which means no one has to use it unless they like to. So just because you don´t like it, give people who do like it a chance.

optical · Feb 25, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I use the right mouse button to strafe...I use it to steer my character around the map...I essentially use it the exact way you want to use it...and I have as of yet not had a single problem. 2200 hours later I haven't had a single cramp or sore...yous is stupid, unneeded, and the epitimay of lazy.

go to the store...buy a mouse with a toggle button. Problem solved

Nazo · Feb 25, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Fine. You dont like the idea. Thats your choice, but, just, CONSIDER the possibility that someone could. Again, Im not talking about something that requires 500 programmers working day and night to implement. Im talking about something that would take one a few minutes. And lazy? Im talking about not having to hold a mouse button all the time to do something you shouldnt have to do as so very many games out there today have shown us. And Im not buying a new mouse. Ive never seen one with a toggle button, but, it doesnt matter. I spent money to get a GOOD mouse, and Im not throwing it away because you think Im lazy even though you dont even know what lazy means.

Anyway, do whatever you want. I didnt realize people were THIS closed minded about it all. So completely closed that even the thought of a very minor simple change has you tossing insults and repeatedly acting like its 100x more complicated than it is without even a thought that it could be nice for a few people, which is all that matters. If people here are so quick to attack with all they have even the simplest idea for a feature that doesnt even require them to have to deal with any changes, clearly this is just not the right place for ideas and Ill keep my ideas to myself here. So you can relax, you wont have to listen to me anymore. Im sorry I ever spoke to begin with.

Blair46 · Feb 25, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Since i'm no super techno programming leet man, I really want to know how you're so absolutely certain that this is such an easy fix. If you know how to program and know what needs to be done in order to code this. Why not create the required code to get this to work, and then send it with an extremely professional, well-written letter to ArenaNET stating how to do it, and why they should do it.

Erm, I wasn't trying to sound sarcastic there.. I just don't know much about C++/Java/whatever..

optical · Feb 25, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazo

Anyway, do whatever you want. I didnt realize people were THIS closed minded about it all. So completely closed that even the thought of a very minor simple change has you tossing insults and repeatedly acting like its 100x more complicated than it is without even a thought that it could be nice for a few people, which is all that matters.

I think the problem is your ignorance rather than others inability to accept your idea. You obviously have very little programming experience and have failed to take into consideration the amount of effort, time and work required to implement a camera angle that doesn't exist in the game. You're asking for a locked first person angle...it doesn't exist and the amount of time required to put this camera into the game could be spent in better ways.

Lexar · Feb 25, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

I don't think it would be THAT hard, basically the functionality is there already when you hold down the right mouse button, so there's no need to program that all in, just when you scroll all the way into your character, the right mouse button sort of gets locked into being constantly pressed down. That can't require hours and hours of programming.

Though fps mode is really only suited for rangers and ele's because they'll usually be further from a target they're attacking, so the csreen won't get spammed with mobs, from up close grawls look even uglier, but for exploring and walking around this would be great.

/signed

Nazo · Feb 26, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

I swore I wouldn´t respond to this thread again, but, I guess it´s necessary to do so this one last time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blair46

Why not create the required code to get this to work, and then send it with an extremely professional, well-written letter to ArenaNET stating how to do it, and why they should do it.

Because Guild Wars is not an opensource game, that´s why. I could write pseudo code, but, it would be 100% useless since, simply put, I´m talking about utilizing already existing functionality rather than writing new stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by optical

I think the problem is your ignorance rather than others inability to accept your idea. You obviously have very little programming experience and have failed to take into consideration the amount of effort, time and work required to implement a camera angle that doesn't exist in the game. You're asking for a locked first person angle...it doesn't exist and the amount of time required to put this camera into the game could be spent in better ways.

Actually, I´m a CIS major who started out as CS but switched mainly because it was too much theory, too little utilization (and oh god the documentation on every single little function however little it may do) well, that and the fact I was supposed to take three levels of calculus when a programmer actually only actually needs algebra (handy because it gives you the general mind-set for how programming works when solving equations as the same sort of mind-set can apply to solving a problem in a program.) The angle already exists. They just move the physical entity of the camera to the player character´s current ¨head¨ location and hides the player model on the client. This causes some clipping and model issues, but, it´s good enough for a start. I don´t ask that the issues be fixed, though I think a simple quickfix can be utilized for the issue where the player model gets unhidden when changing areas simply by zooming out one step and back in (heck, simulate mouse wheel rolls on entering an area if the code is complex to just simply zoom out/in.) As for the mouse look, like the person above me pointed out yet again, it´s already there, nothing new.

And yet again I see someone saying the time could be spent for better things. Firstly, like I said, you still refuse to consider that some people might like it just because you won´t. Secondly, once again I point out that I´m talking about simple steps rather than the more complex steps that would be needed for a TRUE first person mode. I don´t ask even for the quickfix thing as I´m willing to zoom out and back in manually. I don´t even ask for a mouse sensitivity setting, though I think that could benefit people using the game in purely 2D GUI mode just a bit. Just a single checkbox that when enabled reverses the effect of the right mouse button, nothing more. The most complex coding to be done on adding such a thing is adding the checkbox (GUIs are a pain,) but, they have only to reuse old cold, rewrite the variables and name, and then position it, so positioning would be the hardest part of that. The code needs only a simple check for that one variable and if it´s true, then have the opposite effect on the right mouse button. The devs elected to write this game for x86 rather than the more RISC-style processors macs used to use (and, I might add that apple is very slowly phasing out the mac and is already switching to x86, in fact, about the only PC related places those are being used are graphics processors and hand-held devices) so one more branching statement makes very little difference indeed.