Curse

Aniewiel · Aug 02, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I have finally figured out why Europe never has favor! It's the SPELLING! Maybe ANet coded "favOr" and not "favoUr" into the computer thereby making it tougher for misspelling to win!

/end silliness

I really don't mean anything by this so no one get your knickers in a knot.

One thought though: When you see who has favor, is it spelled "favor" or "favour"? Just one of those random questions that popped into my head.

Fantus · Aug 02, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Here, dear Guildwars Guru Community, you see the reason why europe commonly sucks when it comes to Favor.
Let's wait it! Yeah, let's wait for others to do our work. This is just unbearable. Imagine the following situation, an european person is drowning in a small pool which is about 1 metre deep. Instead of just calming down, standing up and simply walking out of the water the european person keeps on screaming for help.

Nonsense. You can't win a war when you have like 200,000 soldiers and the enemy has like 6 million or so. Europeans are NOT bad at PvP, they just lack the numbers. We might as well surrender now (=moving to US) instead of fighting a battle that's completely hopeless. Yes, we could try hard as you suggest and go down in a heroic battle, but what's the point if you are going to lose anyway?

As for me personally - I don't do PvP in Tombs because I hate the overserious atmosphere there (hell, the people there behave as if the war was REAL). I PvP only in Arenas, so I am not much help with gaining favor anyway.

The pool in your example is not 1 metre deep - it's 20 metre deeps and it has sharks.

Fantus · Aug 02, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyger

Europe is NOT a single nation, or a single country. I am in England myself. Part of the grand idea of Europe, but my first allegiance is to my country - England. The same can *usually* be said of the French, Germans, Italians...pick one.

Unfortunately you are right. People do think that way. However there IS a European nation. It's called the European Union and is the third largest nation on earth - only China and India are larger. But as long as this "my country first, Europe second" attitude is still in people's heads, Europe will be screwed - in Guildwars as well as in real life. Much smaller countries (*cough* Korea *cough*) will stomp on us because we're still too busy fighting ourselves. Face it, there is no "my country" anymore. 70% of our laws are made in Brussels. Go figure!

Problem only is... we won't change that fact here. It will take 50 - 100 years to change that. That's why the Worlds at War concept has to go. Now!

Takkun · Aug 02, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

What I don't get is why this is such a big deal...?

No matter where you hail from or what side you decide to represent, the result should still be the same: The Guild which comes out on top on the guild ladder and in the HoH is shown not only as what region you are winning the favor for, but also what guild is causing the favor to shift.

I don't have a clue whether or not this made sense, but in short: Try to represent your guild more than your region.

And for those who keep making abusive comments in Tombs against different regions: Don't, because you don't truely know if those people you are making fun of are actually Korean or actually European or actually American until you meet them face to face.

Kaldor Meshekal · Aug 02, 2005, 08:48 AM // 08:48

I migrated to the American Servers, purely so i could enjoy their favor

However, whenever i go into Tombs, i go to the International districts and make sure that my team is European. Can't be havin' me winning the favor for the Americans now, can we?

I completely and utterly agree with Fantus. Europe needs to work together, such as the Americans and Koreans can do. Problem is, the French. Now, might sound insulting, but, to be fair, my experience with the French in Guild Wars has not been the best...i'll just say Korea gained Favor because of one of their Guild teams.

Rayea · Aug 02, 2005, 10:08 AM // 10:08

john little said...

yes it does, they just don't know it yet... what will you do once you have the armour? Prance around Old Ascalon impressing n00bs? Check it off your list of items to get, and move on to finding a crystaline sword or whatever? I completely understand the motivation, but before asking for a dramatic change to the PvE/PvP interaction I'd simply ask you to consider exactly what benefit it would really achieve.

personaly, i have no real intention fo getting any 15k armour. so far, i like only one set slightly, and one piece at all, and unless they changed them, i still probably would not bother grinding for it.

crystal looking sword? oh, i *have* one of those, got it in pre sear, so why bother arsing about looking for a better one if its just for looks

as to swaning about in my flashy armour...pfff...i keep a basic set of boneweave in my backpack and whenever i go to areas that cant get the armour i have now, i swap back into the old stuff, so dont go griping that i wanna show off my spanky armours, i can do that to my friends and be satisfied in one guy and a 'whoa, what a cleavage *drool*' remark ^^

its less about the armour and more about the going into the UW ect for me, i am an explore type. if i was in the UW, and found an ecto and the prices were good, i would be more likely to sell than to hoard.

and over all, its less about the fact that these things and places exist and are there to make you grind or fight, its more about the fact that by having the favour/favor set up the way it is right now, a large section of the game playing populace cant go there or get the items they are wanting.

how would you feel if you had to wait till an un reasonable hour of the day/night to be able to go into the arena, assuming you like to PvP, simply because your server wasnt sheduled to go in, or had to have kept the Arena Torch for a full 3 hours?
you would scream like us PvE'ers are doing now, if your PvP privalages were being reigned in by something as arbitrary as which team was holding said torch.

granted, it takes skill, cunning and work to hold these places that win or loose the favour/favor, but what some of us are saying is that that is the only thing that needs rewarding...
that sides skill in the HoH or whatever place it is,
and that by ditching the favour/favor meaning your side gets hunting rights in the UW and Fissure you alow the team to be recognised as the team that keeps the Avatars of the Gods in your server.

making an area un accessable to a reasanable section of the gaming publick will always create stress and agro.
guess it would still be there, even if only those who bought the collectors edition were the only ones alowed into UW and Fissure, or if only those that bought the 'gold game tickets' and paid for the privelage were alowed in.

Feli · Aug 02, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Nonsense. You can't win a war when you have like 200,000 soldiers and the enemy has like 6 million or so.

Yes. But when you are fighting in Guildwars, the maximum number of opponents you are fighting is 40 and those not even all at the same time. Most of the time you are fighting 8 on 8 or maybe 8 on 16. But not 200.000 against 6 million.

It only takes a few decent PVPers to get Europe the Favor. The skilled peaple simply can't be spammed to death in guildwars. You could do so in WoW... going 50 on 1 or something like that but you can't do so in Guildwars.

Rayea · Aug 02, 2005, 10:30 AM // 10:30

actually, it looks like the skilled peeps can be spammed to death. check out this thread and then say thats not true...

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&page=1&pp=25

and have you noticed, that a lot of said skilled PvPers have moved to the usa servers?
and quite a few said skilled pvpers are now semi retired and only play gvg? hmm?

yes, maybe euro needs to work harder, but considering fewer euro teams gang up n the other side and work together, or sometimes even wor together as a group, its hard.

saying euro sux, sure.
but if it were possible to level the paying field (not with the everything at the push of a button type fix) by having no need to gain the favour/favor to get into these places, the reasons to play pvp in HoH ect would not realy change, only its outcome. same groups would still hold the hall for hours at a time, cause they want the faction points ect.

and there would be fewer threads about how <insert name> server sux or gets owned by such-and-such a server or side, and fewer theads about not getting your armour and maybe even the prices of these UW and Fissure items would come down a bit, with more people being able t get hold of them.

Alodarn · Aug 02, 2005, 11:06 AM // 11:06

What would work, is have a "winner" for each of the timezones.
Make it faction based, with a guild (and therefore the members) declaring for a faction.
Make it a distinct "step" in guild evolution:
(creation)->(cape)->(declare)->(hall)

the game would then only allow the winning faction entrance. Sorted.

Only one problem I see, keeping "balanced" sides.

As once a guild declares, it's "fixed", the way people would exploit the setup is to leave the current guild, and join one that is currently "in favour", so make it that you can't join if thats the case.

And to try and keep it balanced on a per guild basis, the cost of declaring is steeper for a faction that already has a lot of guilds.

Would need a few more "features" to make sure it rotated, but good idea?

Catalin Dracul · Aug 02, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

My Guild is an american guild. I am not going to go on to the europe servers because i wouldnt be able to play with them. The international districts usually have no people in them and that means no people to fill a spot for our team.

Fantus · Aug 02, 2005, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Yes. But when you are fighting in Guildwars, the maximum number of opponents you are fighting is 40 and those not even all at the same time. Most of the time you are fighting 8 on 8 or maybe 8 on 16. But not 200.000 against 6 million.

No, that's true only for an individual match. There are countless Tombs matches going on simultaneously. It's more like 200 guilds from Korea, 180 from America and 10 from Europe are fighting at the same time. Let's assume they are all evenly skilled - what do you think are the odds that an EU team will win the Halls?

Snuk the Great · Aug 02, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

It would be possible for europe to hold the favor. Though europe is devided. I myself am from the Netherlands and I oftenly see Dutch people spammin they want to have ONLY dutchies in there team (the dutch and english share the same districts, french, german, italian and spanish speaking countrys have got other districts). The same is with germans, frenchies and UK'ers. Often they cant stand eachother. Though what they do not realize is that Europe needs to get the favor, we are aurope and we are on the same side.
Now for Americans and Koreans, they dont have this issue (maybe a bit, but believe me in europe this is a real problem...).

I myself dont care, I am in a european guild (though we do have one Ausie :P). Yes we need to talk english and I dont mind, why would i not speak english though I have the knowledge to do so? French and Germens rather wont, because there just ignorent (not all of them though, dont get me wrong). The English cant help it, they just dont speak any other language. And for the spanish and italian, well havent spoken to any of them (because of teh other districts...)

If it is going to stay this way, and we keep being devided like this it will take much and much and much longer for us to actualy team up and get that favor.

And for the people who leave the european servers? Are you that lazy? Cant stand the chalange, well then I dont want you on our servers anyway!

Feli · Aug 03, 2005, 01:27 PM // 13:27

So useless to try and convince scared europeans. No matter which argument they prefer being a sitting duck and chickening out. What the hell do i care if there are 200 other teams fighting at the same moment in DIFFERENT Instances? Do they bother me? No, not at all. I'll just fight the better ones of those in the Hall of Heroes.
And if everyone is evenly skilled... yes what? They are evenly skilled than and fight each other in the hall of heroes. No fricking winning of those 200 or 100 teams. I am just not facing those so why should i care at all? I've got nothing to do with all the other battles.
The only thing that does matter is the individual Team and which way to take to kill the enemy team. And why should i divide between Koreans, Europeans or Americans. As you yourself put, they can all be evenly skilled... so WHY exactly should i fear anyone of those? If not for cheating they can just only do the same things as i could do too.
But yes, you're yet another proof that the REAL reason why europe almost never has favor is the reason europe is simply chickening out and waiting and whining and crying and complaining and bitching for someone ELSE to help them out. But instead of putting up a fight... all you see europe doing is this:

We need more players!!!!
PVP Is so unfair bohohoooo!!!
Faction is sooooo biased bohohooooo!!!
Only the other realms can get fast exp bohohoooo!!!
There are so many evil guys around us boohooooo (when in fact they only face a few of those)!!!

Snuk the Great · Aug 03, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Feli, you should not be so offensive.
It IS true europe is outnumbered (and not just a small bit, but I mean massivly outnumbered)
it IS true we have had seriuos amount of lagg
it IS true europeans go to other terretorys

On the other hand, people just keep on crying about it instead of thinking up a good solution. Would it do us good if all the europeans which ran away to the other terretorys join us again? No it would not because they suck anyway (or else they would have get us the favor, instead of running away).

And just one more thing, most of the europeans are not bitching about it, they dont care and they like the challange. You just dont hear them and now you asume everyone in Europe is crying. You should be at the Temple of Ages when Europe almost got the favor (which odly is always when most of the europeans are to bed and more Americans get online :O). Its always lots of fun to see Europeans cheering "Go Europe, you can do it". If it was possible about all of them would get a bottle of champain ready

. So I am not saying Europe sucks, and you better not screw us up cause Europe rules in its own way.
You will see we will make it eventualy, even when badly outnumbered!

Feli · Aug 03, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I'm so offensive because nothing else will awaken the chicken attitude of europe... sadly. Yes i've been to the temple of ages just before europe has gotten or lost favor. It is nice to see the PVErs cheer about that and it really makes someone feel like he accomplished something if his team was succesful in gaining the favor.
Why europe moreover has the favor during nighttime? That is because the eastern parts of the european realm are awake and starting to PVP and they have atleast one advantage over other typical west european teams. They simply don't chicken out. If i recall it correctly the amount of players in the eastern parts of the european realm is even lower. I once heard a russian player say they have like 100-200 people playing Guildwars from Russia in TOTAL. Yet still, the russian players were gaining the favor quite frequently. How is this possible, i ask of all of thee... if we are outnumbered and stand absolutely no chance like some people say, how the hell could that happen that those few folks got europe the favor?
Are they good? Yes. Are they uber? No. Could any west european team do the same with the same amount of dedication. YES!!!! It takes ONE team. One single damn good team to get europe the favor. No need for 300 teams, all that counts is one team.

BurningPants · Aug 03, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I'm surprised they haven't just changed the name of the three main servers (or split 1 server to make a total of four) and give them non-real world names. When a player creates a new character have them select one of the new servers instead of just placing them on the basis of geographical location. *HOPEFULLY* You'll see an intermingling of Americans, Europeans and Koreans on one server. Just make sure they keep the language districts active for each respective language.

On the whole Europeans in American server topic, I have no problem with that at all. I find that most of the Euro players are actually pretty good when compared with a majority of American players (PvP ofcourse) and when teaming with these players, I find that most of them can contribute hugely, even if they have a weak grasp of english.

BTW I didn't read through all the posts so I don't know if my suggestion has already been posted, if so...sorry.

Antagonist · Aug 03, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningPants

I'm surprised they haven't just changed the name of the three main servers (or split 1 server to make a total of four) and give them non-real world names. When a player creates a new character have them select one of the new servers instead of just placing them on the basis of geographical location.

It wouldn't take long until PvE people migrated to whichever server has the favour most. Cosmetic chages won't resolve the situation, the WaW concept is broken and either needs to be fixed or abondoned. Someone on the GWOnline forums suggested an algorithm that holding the favour should be time-based. That means that if you win the favour for your server you can't loose it for a specific time and this time is dependant on how long your server didn't have the favour before winning it again. I liked the idea because it would guarantee an equal distribution of favour. For instance if europe didn't have the favour for one week they would get it for one week once they win tombs.

What I still don't like is the attitude here and on other GW forums. Many people believe that you should force players into game modes which you don't like. PvE players fight for PvE unlocking although PvP players hate it and other groups opt for the link between favour and UW /FoW although many PvE players are not interested in PvP. It's really sad because most problems GW has nowadays stem from this attitude.

Fantus · Aug 03, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

So useless to try and convince scared europeans. No matter which argument they prefer being a sitting duck and chickening out. What the hell do i care if there are 200 other teams fighting at the same moment in DIFFERENT Instances? Do they bother me? No, not at all. I'll just fight the better ones of those in the Hall of Heroes.
And if everyone is evenly skilled... yes what?

Your entire model of gaining favor in an outnumbered situation is based on the assumption that EU can put a team (or a small number of teams) together which is SIGNIFICANTLY better than anything that Korea or the US might muster. Yes, if you could do that you might have a situation where these small number of players might get the favor regulary, because they can beat anyone anytime.

But...

...that's a very dumb assumption to make.

Feli · Aug 03, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

But...

...that's a very dumb assumption to make.

Your argument is very dumb. Fact. Don't like your arguments getting called dumb? Don't do it then.
Do the Koreans have to put up teams which are destroying the other teams? No. Do the Americans have to put up teams which are destroying the other teams? No. So why oh bloody hell, should europe have to? That is just nonsense.
Take a random team of 8 players(friends). Force them to play Tombs one week long, two hours each day. Everyday in the same team with the same people. By the end of the week they have seen all trendwh_ore builds in Tombs and the Hall of Heroes. It will take about one day of combined brainpower to work out a counter to it and start fighting for real. Watch them get the favor a few days or more. Then watch the counters to THEIR Strategy flowing in. Watch them adapt... et voila we have a team that can put up a fight and get europe the favor. All it takes is a bit of dedication.

You don't need to be ubergood to pull of something. By YOUR argument you're assuming the other teams are perfect. Nothing is perfect and especially in guildwars there is a counter to everything. But once again this is what i am saying all the time. Europeans chicken out. And your post my friend is yet another proof. You can stop with those now though, i know europe is "teh suxx0r" when it comes to morale and initiative.

/edit:
To make it clear, i don't want the PVErs to make PVP. Hell, let them do what they want. I do both and can really understand them. I am speaking about the PVPers in Europe who are so fricking affraid of other teams they probably lose due to real bad morale.

Fantus · Aug 03, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Your argument is very dumb. Fact.

Fact??? So go ahead and prove me wrong! Produce a team that can win HoH every time it enters (or even 75% of the time). As long as you can't do that (AND YOU CAN'T, RIGHT?), I will stick to what I said. Period.

Also, I never said Europe has worse PvP players than US or Korea. They don't. EU teams DO win the HoH after all. But yes, I am saying that Europe doesn't and will never have BETTER players either. This IS a very safe assumption to make, won't you agree? This in combination with the (proveable) FACT that there are MANY MORE players outside Europe will result in Europe having favor approximately for the same percentage of the time as their player base is (which is what happens).

You are planning to learn and train to get better at PvP so that you can beat your opponent? I tell you a secret: US and Korean teams are doing the same! Thinking that the best 50 European teams could be significantly better then the best 50 US and Korean teams would be quite arrogant (if you prefer this word over "dumb").

In short: Heroes don't win wars, soldiers do. EU has less soldiers, so they will lose that war. It's as easy as that.