Curse

ibex333 · Mar 16, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

I cannot understand the reasoning behind Anet making pretty much all 15>50 weapons readily avalable from crafters or collectors.

This is simply unfair to people like me who played this game from the day it came out and shelled out fortunes for such weapons. It is like a spit in the face. In the past, when there was only a few such weapons avalable from crafters, that was ok, since they weren't easy to get, and u had to travel to far places to get to those crafters. But now...
Look what has become of this game!!! Almost everything you can imagine is now readily avalable from merchants, crafters, or collectors. Runes, great weapons, etc. There is no more need for grinding, and pretty much no need for PvE portion of the game at all. Except for the story, there is absolutely no reason for PvE anymore. No need to form groups and farm places like Sorrow's Furnace. (which was actualy fun) No need to hunt for nice weapons. NO NEED TO EVEN TRADE. (xept 4 mods and crafting materials)

There is absolutely zero replayablility value after you beat the game. I was thinking of buying Factions, but now, I'm not so sure anymore.
In Factions, we all will get access to new areas, monsters and quests... But, why would anyone who already passed the game, and has decent weapons and armor want to play the PvE portion of Factions? For experience?? -- Why? I already have all skills unlocked, and cant go higher in level. For "storyline" alone? - I'll just go play Baldur's Gate. To get cool items and weapons? -- Why bother? These mods can be put on a crafter item and I'll have pretty much same item as anyone who was grinding for it for days or weeks. It might not look as good, but will perform the same.
Skills used to be a pretty nice reward too. You'd have to travel a far distance to kill a boss, and if you wouldnt use your cap sig fast enough, you'd have to do it again! That was challenging and cool. Then even that was taken away. And now, any noob can cap a skill easy.

The truth is, as much as it SOUNDS nice in theory, everyone CAN'T be equal. There must be substantial rewards for quests, and for long, hard work, and those who actually went through all that hard work, have a right to be at an advantage over noobs who just started to play.

Now someone is going to say.. This game is all about PvP, if u want PvE, go play Baldurs Gate. Well I like the PvP portion too, it is great. But PvE is now DESTROYED IMHO. There is nothing to compel players like me to play PvE from now on.

END OF RANT.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Mar 16, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Anything to lessen the grind is good for Guild Wars.

If you like to grind so much, go play World of Warcraft.

fiery · Mar 16, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

I didn't read the whole thread just skimmed, but only one word popped into my head "balanced".

Loviatar · Mar 16, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

[QUOTE=ibex333]

Quote:

I cannot understand the reasoning behind Anet making pretty much all 15>50 weapons readily avalable from crafters or collectors.

Quote:

This is simply unfair to people like me who played this game from the day it came out and shelled out fortunes for such weapons.

In the past, when there was only a few such weapons avalable from crafters, that was ok,
There is no more need for grinding,
No need to form groups and farm places like Sorrow's Furnace.

Quote:

The truth is, as much as it SOUNDS nice in theory, everyone CAN'T be equal. There must be substantial rewards for quests, and for long, hard work, and those who actually went through all that hard work, have a right to be at an advantage over noobs who just started to play.

A COMPLETE PVELITEST FINDING HIMSELF SURROUNDED BY EQUALS WITH NO WAY TO PROVE HOW SUPERIOR HE IS TO ALL THE NOOBS.

ibex333 · Mar 16, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

A COMPLETE PVELITEST FINDING HIMSELF SURROUNDED BY EQUALS WITH NO WAY TO PROVE HOW SUPERIOR HE IS TO ALL THE NOOBS.

Jeez... what makes you think I want to prove anything??? I'm just trying to say there should be rewards for doing stuff.

ibex333 · Mar 16, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Anything to lessen the grind is good for Guild Wars.

If you like to grind so much, go play World of Warcraft.

I never said I like grinding. You didnt get my main point.

Kakumei · Mar 16, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I never said I like grinding. You didnt get my main point.

You just said you like grinding. You're COMPLAINING that certain items and weapons and even elites are easy to get--before, they were difficult to get, and as such required grind to acquire.

ibex333 · Mar 16, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

You just said you like grinding. You're COMPLAINING that certain items and weapons and even elites are easy to get--before, they were difficult to get, and as such required grind to acquire.

Well no one likes grinding.. I'm no exception. But SOME degree of grinding is needed.
The way it is now, is pretty much all grinding is eliminated... And so is the PvE portion of the game. GW used to be an even mix of PvE and PvP when it came out. Now it's just a PVP game.

If that's the case, why bother with PvE at all?(if u already beat the game)
All weapons, Skills and mods can be unlocked in PVP with enough time, or obtained from collectors or crafters.
What I'm really trying to say is this game used to feel a lot dfferent. and now it's just a a whole new kind of animal. Which is not necessarily good.
Tell me honestly.. If you will get Factions.. What will possibly compel you to play it's PvE portion?

Kakumei · Mar 16, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Well no one likes grinding.. I'm no exception. But SOME degree of grinding is needed.
The way it is now, is pretty much all grinding is eliminated... And so is the PvE portion of the game. GW used to be an even mix of PvE and PvP when it came out. Now it's just a PVP game.

If that's the case, why bother with PvE at all?(if u already beat the game)
All weapons, Skills and mods can be unlocked in PVP with enough time, or obtained from collectors or crafters.
What I'm really trying to say is this game used to feel a lot dfferent. and now it's just a a whole new kind of animal. Which is not necessarily good.
Tell me honestly.. If you will get Factions.. What will possibly compel you to play it's PvE portion?

I'm buying Factions PRIMARILY for the PvE portion. Granted, my guild on the whole prefers PVP, and I'm certainly not averse to weekly (or even daily!) guild battles, but I'm truly a carebear at heart. I've run seven+ characters through the entire storyline, and while it does get tedious, there's several missions I don't mind at all. I don't mind doing Fissure and Underworld runs just for the fun of it.

And from what I'm reading about Factions, it's going to expand on this sort of thing--more high-level content, integrating PvE and PvP. I can't wait. Not at all.

Things are fine as is, from my perspective.

Loviatar · Mar 16, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Tell me honestly.. If you will get Factions.. What will possibly compel you to play it's PvE portion?

serious answer on this.

a whole new continent to exploer.
300 new skills of which 90 are new elites
a whole new bunch of items/weapons/armors/
special elite quests which they said would be extremely difficult and have loot according to difficulty.

that is just a few of the reasons i have a preordered CE

serious question serious answer

cheers

EDIT

i am PVE ONLY

calamitykell · Mar 16, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Probably 2 of my favorite posters on this forum (Loviatar & Kakumei) summed it up nicely.

Guild Wars has always been about not having to grind to get the good stuff, like you have to do in virtually every other online RPG. If you're not grinding/farming for the item itself, you're grinding/farming for the gold to BUY the item from someone who HAS ground/farmed for the item OR ground/farmed for the gold to buy it, but then got bored of it.

Guild Wars, since before release, took the position of anti-grind. But there's been some grinds still in the game, but they try to lessen it. The Beacon's->Drok's run isn't an exploit; it's intentional so you don't have to grind every single PvE character through every mission and outpost if you don't want to.

There are still some grinds, and still some farming, but they never wanted it to be all there was, so they work to lessen it. Making perfect items readily available to all also maintains the balance in that whoever plays the most isn't at a gross advantage, like they would be in games like WoW.

KvanCetre · Mar 16, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

There is absolutely zero replayablility value after you beat the game. I was thinking of buying Factions, but now, I'm not so sure anymore.
In Factions, we all will get access to new areas, monsters and quests... But, why would anyone who already passed the game, and has decent weapons and armor want to play the PvE portion of Factions? For experience?? -- Why? I already have all skills unlocked, and cant go higher in level.

...you've unlocked all 300 new skills already on a PvE character? Wow.

ibex333 · Mar 16, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

...you've unlocked all 300 new skills already on a PvE character? Wow.

No... that's in PvP.
but in PvE I have most.

Mandy Memory · Mar 16, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

There is no more need for grinding

YAYYYYYY *much rejoicing*

Concidering that is what the Devs were aiming for...I think you just gave them a huge thumbs up.

ibex333 · Mar 16, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

For Kakumei and Loviatar:

GW Factions:

1)A whole new continent to explore. -- why bother? - NO REWARDS FOR IT. No incentive...

2)300 new skills of which 90 are new elites -- ok that's nice, but for PvP.

3)A whole new bunch of items/weapons/armors/ -- So what? - Can be easily obtained from Crafters. (you dont have to work for it, and you can get it right away. What's the fun in getting everything right away?)

4)Special elite quests which they said would be extremely difficult and have loot according to difficulty. -- why bother? The only reward is exp, and no use for exp if u unlocjked what you need already.

Only thing is... If the loot will be the kind of loot no one else can get unless they complete these quests, then there would be a point to it.
But if I can go to a crafter and get same item you get from the extremely hard quest you wasted hours on, wouldnt you feel bad?

It's like you working your whole life to buy a Mercedes Benz S500 at the age of 60, and I go out tomorrow and get it at 20, because someone just gave it to me for my beautiful eyes or somth.. lol
How does that make you feel?

Oh, and calamitykell I'm totally for Beacon's -> Drok's runs... I am against other things that are described by me in this thread.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 16, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

.
There is absolutely zero replayablility value after you beat the game. I was thinking of buying Factions, but now, I'm not so sure anymore.
In Factions, we all will get access to new areas, monsters and quests... But, why would anyone who already passed the game, and has decent weapons and armor want to play the PvE portion of Factions?
END OF RANT.

Maybe because it's fun? Why else would you play a video game?

Loviatar · Mar 16, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

For Kakumei and Loviatar:

GW Factions:

1)A whole new continent to explore. -- why bother? - NO REWARDS FOR IT. No incentive....

different outlooks i guess.

maybe there should be a special subdevision of carebear to describe me.

CALL ME A TOURIST

i like to see something new just to see it.

like a rainbow , or a sunset, or simply something that makes me go wow or how did they do that.

i have had enough fun from GW that i would buy Factions even if they offered no new items just for having the fun of exploring, doing the missions/quests, etc.

i play the game to have fun and i dont worry if i have a lot of gold or just enough.

i dont care if items drop out of the sky that are as good as mine as long as i can enjoy the game.

many (most?) have more and are richer than i am but how does that stop me from turning a new corner and going wow that is beautiful and enjoying it?

my incentive for playing is playing for the fun of it

dreamhunk · Mar 16, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

i think pvp players want different things than pve or should I say rpg players. This thread only proves my point even more.

I say there should be powerful iteams and mounts as such in the game just for rpg players. These things should be locked off from pvp. these things don't work for pvp players because they want things balanced.

As for elitest I would say that pvp players have the EGOS. I mean look at rank enough said.(farming new palyers for rank)

As for pve anet focus more on the role playing and the story, Add more world content. RPG players want worlds in the game. Much different from pvp.

ibex333 · Mar 16, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

different outlooks i guess.

maybe there should be a special subdevision of carebear to describe me.

CALL ME A TOURIST

i like to see something new just to see it.

like a rainbow , or a sunset, or simply something that makes me go wow or how did they do that.

i have had enough fun from GW that i would buy Factions even if they offered no new items just for having the fun of exploring, doing the missions/quests, etc.

i play the game to have fun and i dont worry if i have a lot of gold or just enough.

i dont care if items drop out of the sky that are as good as mine as long as i can enjoy the game.

many (most?) have more and are richer than i am but how does that stop me from turning a new corner and going wow that is beautiful and enjoying it?

my incentive for playing is playing for the fun of it

Ahh.. what can I say.. WE AGREE TO DISAGREE

chaos dragoon · Mar 16, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

There is no more need for grinding,

Hooray! No more grind!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

It might not look as good, but will perform the same.

Now you have the best along with everyone else. Welcome to the club.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

And now, any noob can cap a skill easy.

And that equals bad how? So what if they have access to the same skills as you? You are much better and will always win because you are more skilled than them right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

The truth is, as much as it SOUNDS nice in theory, everyone CAN'T be equal.

Please explain why not everyone cant be equal and you cant lose just because someone flat out played better than you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Only thing is... If the loot will be the kind of loot no one else can get unless they complete these quests, then there would be a point to it.But if I can go to a crafter and get same item you get from the extremely hard quest you wasted hours on, wouldnt you feel bad?

Any eldest readers will know this, not an exact quote but close, it is not the reward of obtaining something that matters, but it is the journey getting there that counts. What is the point of doing anything if you can say a few magic words and get want you want? In otherwords get the items for yourself, not for others to gape at.

I edited that last part alot instead of making a new post so any quotes of me might be a little different.