Curse

S H I N O B I · Apr 04, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucius Hyral

Are you serious, the wikipedia link itself starts with the disclaimer of:

"Ninjatō (忍者刀) is a Japanese sword used by the ninja that was similar to the katana, but tended to be straighter, and was generally not made of folded metal.

Many beliefs are held about the sword of the ninja. The discussion on veracity of these is left out of this article; however this weapon is almost certainly entirely fictitious.
"

gtfo gtfo gtfo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninjato

Its wikipedia, what can I say?

Whether this weapon really existed and was used by ninja is debatable. However, the Ninja Museum in Iga Ueno, where versions of these swords are displayed (and used in demonstrations), claim otherwise.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4351.html

nimloth32 · Apr 04, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

well, i like the idea on the sword being the primary attack weapon and its sheath play its role as offhand weapon (a.k.a a focus)..=D..

hidden_agenda · Apr 04, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

Its true that Chinese generals and warriors are alot less familar to the North American than Samurai. At first I found that strange since the Chinese has been pretty much at war with barbarians like Huns, or Mogol, and each other almost constantly for the past 3000 years.

Agreed

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

However, when outsider truely first got to known the Chinese was at their weakest time during the end of the Qing Dynasty while the Japanese was a raising star with their modernaztion. I think thats why people came to disregard Chinese as able warriors and praise Japanese samurai as l33t godly people.

Also agreed.

A culture does not dominate vast swaths of land without appropriate military capabilities. The Chinese culture have dominated far east Asia for more than 3000 years. In fact, one could make a serious argument that until the advent of modern technology, it is the most successful culture in the history of the world.

Honestly, there is really no comparables... To beat this, one would have to have the Assyrians (from 1500BC) still around as a viable culture today.

Despite their denials to the contrary, the Japanese also borrowed significantly from the Chinese. Personally, I don't understand why this is a big issue for the Japanese, since all successful cultures actually do copy and build on top of other people's successful ideas.

There is no doubt that the Japanese did remarkably well in the modern era. Far better than the Chinese did. Certainly, the stupidity of certain Chinese leaders did not help (the Cultural Revolution, anyone?).

In any case, my point is that if you think about it -- the monk in GW (as evident by their dance) is a Shao-lin influenced figure. Although American, I am not a big fan of ninjas or samurais - they are just two other warrior types.

Some other warrior types that might be kewl in the game...
- Zulu, with their elongated shield and assagai (short stabbing spears that are almost like swords)
- Hoplit, esp. the Spartan type with their kukri-like sword, spear and bronze shield
- Egyptian, with the khopesh

Akhilleus · Apr 04, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

This is where the reference periods are coming into effect; I'm using the late medevial definition of longsword, which is long compared to an arming sword. You seem to be using the early medevial version, referring to a spatha.

exactly my point.
thats why i made the destinctions to begin with.
the term "longsword" is for swords as what "cannon" is for projective weapons.
technically the word "canon" can cover anything ranging from the 1500s hand-cannons, to the 18cm artillary batteries fielded by ww2 battleshieps.

If the wakizashi were to be included, I'd have to disagree. Otherwise, it sounds reasonable, assuming they were of equal skill.

if you include the wakasashi, its only fair to include the tall-shield, which in close-quarters confined spaces=GG ninja

I'd just like to point out the different tactics are not mutually exclusive; ninja can use the latter technique, and vice versa.

true. i was merely pointing out that more often than not when actually on a mission of assassination the ninja would strike in numbers, and strike to kill.
the assassins themselves would be more likely to cut off the targets ears, kill a close friend and send them the head, or murder their entire staff, but leave the target alive. because remember the one absolute key destinction between european and indo-european culture and that of the asians is that for the vast majority of european and middle-eastern history status was achieved by birth not achieved status; so killing someone of power was a tactic far less relied upon, instead you'd scare them into doing what you want. as for the japanese, they'd kill you, your family, your bodyguards, your men, and most of your peasants...then stage a hostile takeover of whatevers left.

Eltargrim · Apr 04, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I'm talking about Ninjutsu. Taijutsu is different, is it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Bujinkan Dōjō method is named Bujinkan Budō Taijutsu (武神館武道体術), and is a collection of nine martial arts family lineages, called ryūha. The art was previously called Bujinkan Ninpō Taijutsu and before that it was known under the more generic name of ninjutsu - a name that many serious practitioners of the art today avoid as it has acquired something of a bad reputation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhellius

exactly my point.
thats why i made the destinctions to begin with.
the term "longsword" is for swords as what "cannon" is for projective weapons.
technically the word "canon" can cover anything ranging from the 1500s hand-cannons, to the 18cm artillary batteries fielded by ww2 battleshieps.

It can be used more specifically, but whatev'.

Quote:

if you include the wakasashi, its only fair to include the tall-shield, which in close-quarters confined spaces=GG ninja

Point

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

- Hoplit, esp. the Spartan type with their kukri-like sword, spear and bronze shield

*hug*

KvanCetre · Apr 04, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltargrim

Give me two examples of Chinese warriors, or warrior styles, that are widely known outside of east Asia. I don't know any; granted, I haven't looked, but that would make me a perfect example of popular culture, wouldn't it?

Apparently you've never heard of Dyansty Warriors or Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

Theres a ton of games involving Chinese warriors and their styles. Not exactly a text-book accuracy level, but then again, nothing about ninjas and samurais are either.

Eltargrim · Apr 04, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

Apparently you've never heard of Dyansty Warriors or Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

The first one, vaguely. Never the latter.

Quote:

Theres a ton of games involving Chinese warriors and their styles. Not exactly a text-book accuracy level, but then again, nothing about ninjas and samurais are either.

True enough; however, games are not the exclusive media

For some reason, the ninja/samurai model has just stuck to the collective conciousness of the masses. Perhaps it is the mystique; given all the myths surrounding ninjas, is it surprising that people would want to emulate that?

prodigy ming · Apr 05, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltargrim

The first one, vaguely. Never the latter.

True enough; however, games are not the exclusive media

For some reason, the ninja/samurai model has just stuck to the collective conciousness of the masses. Perhaps it is the mystique; given all the myths surrounding ninjas, is it surprising that people would want to emulate that?

Dynasty warriors is a game based on the history of Romance of the 3 kingdoms, which refers to the warring state at the end of the Han dynasty.

Ever since Japan lost the war, they have seem to be mostly in good terms with the Americans and thus there is much more cultural exchange between the two countries.
On the other hand, China always has somewhat of a strained relationship with America under its communist rule. This is a really bad stereotype, but aside from shoalin kung fu, Bruce Lee, dim sum, and evil communist leaders, most outsiders pretty much have no idea what China is about (unless they did additional reserach on it instead of relying completely on the media).

Here is a pretty good analysis on some breif Chinese sword history:
http://chineseswords.freewebspace.com/contact.html

And here is some pics of chinese armour.
http://guancha.gmw.cn/2003-10/031021/031022-01.htm
http://www.flatbow.com/shanwenkia/shanpics.html

S H I N O B I · Apr 05, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

The Ming Dynasty officer's armor pic looks like it would nicely work as Warrior armor ^.^

dreamhunk · Apr 05, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I have taken ninjsu the weapon is very much real! I suggest they can write to grand master huttsume. If He is still alive. he will tell you yes!

ninjas and samurais are from japan not china

LightningHell · Apr 05, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

I have taken ninjsu the weapon is very much real! I suggest they can write to grand master huttsume. If He is still alive. he will tell you yes!

ninjas and samurais are from japan not china

We Chinese are very aware of that, thank you. And we would wish it so too.

We have our own sorts of martial arts, of which some of which I study too.

And it's spelt Ninjutsu.