Curse

azuresun · Apr 04, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Currently in GW:F the Sai dagger has damage type peircing. Traditional sai are not sharp, they are a dull defensive weapon used for trapping and breaking weapons. If the Jitte sword does blunt damage, the sai should as well. Opinions?

EDIT: For reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sai_%28weapon%29

Mandy Memory · Apr 04, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Sure, you seem to know much more about the subject than me...therefore I am trusting you are right.

Jessyi · Apr 04, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Yeah, Azuresun's right - while the sai can be used to pierce weak spots in armor, that's not thier most typical use. They're used to defend the forearms (not well against tempered swords mind you), trap and break blades, strike with the enlongated centre prong (with various swing types) and to punch with (if you're gripping them properly).

And that's another thing: the way the assassin grips the sai makes me grimace; holding them by the grips, with the prongs out (like a dagger). I think in feudal japan, if a samurai saw someone holding the sai like that, the samurai would laugh and then kill them.

-Jessyi

Kais Unduli · Apr 04, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Well, they are held a certain way in Factions because they were designed to be held that way. All the daggers are held in the same fashion; I don't think Anet will adjust the grip for just one weapon. Even though it is wrong.

Wrath Of Dragons · Apr 04, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I definitely agree with the blunt damage thing. As for how they are held, .....i wasnt payin attention

Akhilleus · Apr 04, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

agreed.
the only time a sai is held with the tips outward like a sword, is in the middle of an outward strike, as the strike of a sai immitates (purposfully) the attack of a praying mantis; the prongs are released outward from the inside or outside of the forearm (depending on whether they are attacking from a stance, or counter-attacking from a previous block) and brought downward, upward, or across, generally hitting the obliques, sholur blades, or side of the neck, while the opposite hand's sai traps the persons weapon or wrists. after the strike, the prongs are brought inward, along with the arm, during the retraction of the attack. the main reason for this is the style of fighting sai are designed for; defense. the primary type of weapon sai fighting techniques are designed to counter is that of a sword; closing the distance between the attacker and defender to literally that of about 9 inches to 2 feet, where the sword is far harder to when held outright, then trapping the opponents limbs, and bringing down a world of hurt from inside their attack range. the only reasonable way a swordsman can counter an opponent with sai once too close, is by retracting the sword to where the blade follows down the outside of the forearm, and making inward strikes to the opponents throat (the hardest place for a sai to defend adequetly)

Numa Pompilius · Apr 04, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

So you guys are saying those thin, pointy, things are used as a baton instead of as a rapier?

TGgold · Apr 04, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

agreed.
the only time a sai is held with the tips outward like a sword, is in the middle of an outward strike, as the strike of a sai immitates (purposfully) the attack of a praying mantis; the prongs are released outward from the inside or outside of the forearm (depending on whether they are attacking from a stance, or counter-attacking from a previous block) and brought downward, upward, or across, generally hitting the obliques, sholur blades, or side of the neck, while the opposite hand's sai traps the persons weapon or wrists. after the strike, the prongs are brought inward, along with the arm, during the retraction of the attack. the main reason for this is the style of fighting sai are designed for; defense. the primary type of weapon sai fighting techniques are designed to counter is that of a sword; closing the distance between the attacker and defender to literally that of about 9 inches to 2 feet, where the sword is far harder to when held outright, then trapping the opponents limbs, and bringing down a world of hurt from inside their attack range. the only reasonable way a swordsman can counter an opponent with sai once too close, is by retracting the sword to where the blade follows down the outside of the forearm, and making inward strikes to the opponents throat (the hardest place for a sai to defend adequetly)

That sure cleared *everything* up. Nice explanation.

Kais Unduli · Apr 04, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Yes, pretty much. Don't mind us martial arts heads.

I actually went looking for my old pair of sai, but can't find them. I hope I didn't lend them out to someone, because I sure as hell don't remember what happened to them.

I'm really glad they included the kamas in Factions. Also loved using those things.

Sidra · Apr 04, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Ah man. I really wanted to learn sai fighting. Couldn't find any places that specialized in weapons training, though. I don't care much for physical combat, but the concealing ability of the sai and several other medeival Oriental weaponry intrigue me. Note, that it seem like the developers went and copied Elektra, who has an annoyingly pointy version of the sai, totally mis-reading its intentional use, which is for self defence/disarming/disabling. If they were to make it so that sai could either do piercing or blunt (since they seem to be going for the whole "modern cool spikey thing" view on things) then that would satisfy me, at least.

Akhilleus · Apr 04, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

also, i should mention; for anyone who thinks that sai as a blunt weapon cannot do adaquete harm to the human body, you'd be quite wrong.
if you screw up when practicing and hit yourself with a metal sai, it hurts...a lot...trust me (as in you'll be limping for a week if you so much as tap yourself incorrectly). that, and the collar bone of the average person can only sustain about 15lbs of pressure per square inch, so give em a good whack, and their arms become useless.

Rancour · Apr 04, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Yes, and axes should be piercing damage because your character sometimes chooses to stab with them.

I bet you're right when you say it's wrong and all; but how much of a difference would it REALLY make? There are alot of things that are much higher on my todo-list than changing the weapons damage type. If we really wanted extreme, punctual realism, the only professions would be ranger, warrior and assassin (since magic doesn't exist).

Sorry if I'm sounding a little hostile (or rude, more likely). I just feel that this is really one of those things were I'm sure the majority of people don't really care.

Just my opinion though; if you want the blunt damage, fine by me; I just wouldn't want Anet to spend time changing it

azuresun · Apr 04, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Rancour:

I agree that there are higher priority things on ANet's todo list. My point was, if they had gone through the trouble of making the Jitte sword, which is basically a longer sai with only one shorter prong, do blunt damage, then why not do that with the sai as well?

And I think it would have an effect on in game statistics as well. Just one example, switching to your blunt damage sais when a warrior activates "Sheilds Up" would be a great tactical move for an assassin.

Lampshade · Apr 04, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

It doesn't matter what it is in real life..

I dont need a quiver, a sheath, or a backpack to hold all the items I couldn't, so
why turn the sai into blunt?

lyra_song · Apr 04, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

/Agree

At the same time, could them make the assasins hold a Korambit properly?

http://usera.imagecave.com/buzzer/gw040j.JPG

If you do not use the fingerhole, why bother having it in the design at all? ~_~

LifeInfusion · Apr 04, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

I agree. They should stay true to the actual weapons' damage type, tecnique, positioning and usage (or try to).

Minus Sign · Apr 04, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

/signed

AeroLion · Apr 05, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by azuresun

Rancour:

I agree that there are higher priority things on ANet's todo list. My point was, if they had gone through the trouble of making the Jitte sword, which is basically a longer sai with only one shorter prong, do blunt damage, then why not do that with the sai as well?

And I think it would have an effect on in game statistics as well. Just one example, switching to your blunt damage sais when a warrior activates "Sheilds Up" would be a great tactical move for an assassin.

QFT and /signed

Jessyi · Apr 05, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kais Unduli

Yes, pretty much. Don't mind us martial arts heads.

I actually went looking for my old pair of sai, but can't find them. I hope I didn't lend them out to someone, because I sure as hell don't remember what happened to them.

I'm really glad they included the kamas in Factions. Also loved using those things.

Awwww...they put kama in Factions? I only played the FPE for like an hour before becoming homicidally enraged (yes, yes, I still have my preorder) so I didn't see them. Would be nice though if you could use them in-game to quickly reduce an enemy to a pile of limbs and a torso. That'd be sweeeet.

-Jessyi

Sientir · Apr 05, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

If I'm not mistaken, Raphael of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles uses Sai. They may have gotten certain wieldage patterns from that as well, though I can't remember much about the show anymore.

Overall, he was the first...person? that I connected the Sai to. *shrug*

I do agree that having them be blunt (though kinda odd, since most people will have the romanticized view of it presented through such characters as Raphael) would have tactical advantages.