Curse

Hunter Sharparrow · Mar 25, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

In different areas of the game you can have different party sizes (4,6 and 8). When you are in a party fighting enemies the odds of an item dropping for you is 1 in N (N being the number of people in your party). What if the odds of an item dropping for you was always 1 in X (X being the max party size availible for that area) whether your solo or with a full party. This would seriously discourage solo or small team farming and even make hack programs like bots not worth the hassle of trying to get. This is to go along with making the difficulty of the enemies relative to the the number of people in your party so that it doesn't matter if your solo or with a full party the difficulty of the enemies and therefore the game is the same (For example a warrior doing Thirsty River would have the same amount of trouble at the mission on his own as he would in a full party). I'm not saying make the game the same difficulty from the start to the end, yes make the game get progressively harder, I'm just saying that you shouldn't have to form groups with people for some of the missions cause the enemy groups are so tough that they can't even be handled with henchmen. This would give more flexibility to meet individuals wants in a game and fit into a wider variaty of people's sceduals outside the game. And no need to have henchies in the game. Rare drops will actually be rare. Without the influx of rare items being sold to people by a select few with their secret farm builds and locations or farm bots, the items in the game will (as it should) be more affordable to buy from the merchants. Even though gold weapons and green weapons may still have a high selling price it will atleast give everyone an equal chance to aquire these items. I even believe that it will cut down on the runners since running would actually become easier so anyone could do it and anyone that couldn't could fight their way there.

Boblet · Mar 25, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Even though gold weapons and green weapons may still have a high selling price it will atleast give everyone an equal chance to aquire these items.

Well is that a good thing? Is it fair that a level 5 could get ran to a high level area then add 7 henchies and have the same chances of getting good items as a level 20 who put his time into making a solo build leveling up ect?

Hunter Sharparrow · Mar 25, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

A low level couldn't get ran out to a high level then go with henchies cause there wouldn't be henchies. If the low level tried to solo they would die without killing anything cause the difficulty would be relative to the number of people in the party and not to the person's level. If the low level gets accepted into a group of high level characters to do some quests then yes they should have an equal opportunity to get a good drop as a solo build high level character if it corrects the farming problem. Any high level character with a solo build should only have a build to survive a mission or quest not to farm.

Maxiemonster · Mar 25, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Farming isn't a problem. You're making farming a problem, that's something completly different.

boxcarracers052 · Mar 25, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

You are AGAINST farming? Whats your problem? If people didn't farm, then prices on things would go crazy because they would be harder to get, DUH!

PieXags · Mar 25, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

There's nothing wrong with farming.

Hunter Sharparrow · Mar 25, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Farming is a problem, it is the reason prices are so high and anet is against farming. Why do you think people are afraid to post good farming locations? Why do you think when a good farming location becomes well known they "nerf" it? Do you think that they created a game full of quests and missions so people could go on and kill the same set or same few sets of enemies over and over? NO! Ettin farming for runes for example, everyone knows that one. People go out and farm all these runes then sell the ones noone wants as armor to the merchant while they sell the expensive ones to other people because they can get more money than if they sell it to the rune trader or merchant as armor. Superior Absorbtion and vigor being the bigest two. People buy them when they can afford them and those that find them sell them to people for cheaper than the rune trader but more than what the rune trader is offering. So at the trader end people are buying them at a much higher rate than whats being returned (sold back to the trader or merchan) and hence the high prices. The only other thing that would be easier to program into the game is a price cap. Say 5k cap on minor, 10k cap for major and 15k cap for superior. This applies to all items sold by the npc's and the only thing it really doesn't apply to are rare and green weapons and offhands since they can only be found. This solution however wouldn't have as much of an effect on people farming and wouldn't have any effect on those that hack.

Cherng Butter · Mar 25, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

/not signed

what is wrong with farming? it increases supply, which decreases demand, which keeps prices lower...

if everything was soloable in the game, where does the multiplayer aspect of the game go?

guild wars certainly wouldn't be very fun with your changes...

Kazmax · Mar 25, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

If that is how you feel, go play WoW. There are bajillions of quests, less good drops, and more focus spent on the role-playing. If you want good quick fun, with a pvp focus, GW is perfect for ya! But in WoW there is still farming, there is just less drops of good items.
You want a non-farming MMORPG? Good-luck!

EternalTempest · Mar 25, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

/Not Signed

Anet's Feeling on Farming
http://www.guildwars.com/press/inter...e-friday61.php

An Highlight

Quote:

There are three ways that certain players earn more gold than the average. The first and most obvious way is that, because everyone plays the game differently, some players are able to find unusually profitable areas to hunt in, or tricky strategies for killing a lot of monsters quickly. The search for the most effective way to play can be a fun part of the game for everyone -- we all like to see how well our characters can do, and whether we can tweak our characters to be better than they were previously -- and so we at ArenaNet don’t consider this a problem unless it’s extreme. Although a very knowledgeable or tricky player may be able to earn gold twice as fast as the average, this tends not to create a significant problem, because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them. But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges. We constantly monitor the game, so we know when a certain place or technique is being heavily exploited. When an issue like this becomes too severe, we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line.

Hunter Sharparrow · Mar 26, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Thank you for the quote, it supports my point. When you just finish a mission and your now at a town that offers the next upgrade in armor but your 1k short then go out and get some money. That, to me, is not farming. I'm talking about the people who get on the game and spend all their time farming. They may switch to a new area to take away some of the repeditiveness. That's the kind of farming anet is talking about that generates ten times the gold influx and thats the farming I'm talking about. come on now, it says "because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them." 60k for a rune is suppose to be a level where normal players can afford it? I understand having long term goals in the game to keep people playing thats why fissure armor is so expensive when it has the same armor rating as drok's and 15k, it's not armor that you need just armor that you want for the look of it. No Cherng it doesn't work that way. Although the increase of item may take the demand away from the trader, the price offered by the trader for a specific item is generated based on buy vs sell at the trader of that item (not entirely but it is a leading factor). There is a price gap where the trader will sell an item for a certain amount and buy that same item from you for a certain amount less. When a person aquires an item, most sell the item for over the 50% mark of that gap. Say an item sells for 1200 at the trader and the trader will buy it from you for 800, people will sell it to the public for 1100 or 1050. This means people with the money will just spend the extra 100 or 150 pocket change to get the item right now than wait and see if someone is selling it, but at the same time if aquired by them after they bought it would sell it to public to try and make up for the money they just spent (this is just one situation). This means there are alot more people buying that particular item from, and not selling it back to, the trader. The influx of gold that comes with farming these items will have an impact on all prices as indicated in the quote. There already is a limit cap for how cheap an item can get so why not the opposite. so you say "if everything was soloable, where does the multiplayer aspect of the game go?" You can already solo with the use of henchies the only problem with henchies is that they have the same ai as the enemies. I believe that the multiplayer would remain cause of people like yourself. By saying what you said you give me the impression that you would rather team up with a group of people than do it solo and many other people would. I too would rather team up but would like the option of going solo say after 12 times trying to do thirsty river with a group or if I'm feelin a little antisocial as would many other people. I also believe Anet would benefit greatly from the change. I know a few people who have stopped playing the game after getting to the more difficult areas of the game cause they didn't have the time to sit in town typing LFG or Forming Group For....Then have to deal with the normal crap of waiting for AFK's or for the group to make up their mind on how to handle the current situation. By catering to individuals wants and needs in the game more people would play and want to buy what comes out for it. This means big $$$ for the company and thats what they want.

benmanhaha · Mar 26, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Thank you for the quote, it supports my point. When you just finish a mission and your now at a town that offers the next upgrade in armor but your 1k short then go out and get some money. That, to me, is not farming. I'm talking about the people who get on the game and spend all their time farming. They may switch to a new area to take away some of the repeditiveness. That's the kind of farming anet is talking about that generates ten times the gold influx and thats the farming I'm talking about. come on now, it says "because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them." 60k for a rune is suppose to be a level where normal players can afford it? I understand having long term goals in the game to keep people playing thats why fissure armor is so expensive when it has the same armor rating as drok's and 15k, it's not armor that you need just armor that you want for the look of it. No Cherng it doesn't work that way. Although the increase of item may take the demand away from the trader, the price offered by the trader for a specific item is generated based on buy vs sell at the trader of that item (not entirely but it is a leading factor). There is a price gap where the trader will sell an item for a certain amount and buy that same item from you for a certain amount less. When a person aquires an item, most sell the item for over the 50% mark of that gap. Say an item sells for 1200 at the trader and the trader will buy it from you for 800, people will sell it to the public for 1100 or 1050. This means people with the money will just spend the extra 100 or 150 pocket change to get the item right now than wait and see if someone is selling it, but at the same time if aquired by them after they bought it would sell it to public to try and make up for the money they just spent (this is just one situation). This means there are alot more people buying that particular item from, and not selling it back to, the trader. The influx of gold that comes with farming these items will have an impact on all prices as indicated in the quote. There already is a limit cap for how cheap an item can get so why not the opposite. so you say "if everything was soloable, where does the multiplayer aspect of the game go?" You can already solo with the use of henchies the only problem with henchies is that they have the same ai as the enemies. I believe that the multiplayer would remain cause of people like yourself. By saying what you said you give me the impression that you would rather team up with a group of people than do it solo and many other people would. I too would rather team up but would like the option of going solo say after 12 times trying to do thirsty river with a group or if I'm feelin a little antisocial as would many other people. I also believe Anet would benefit greatly from the change. I know a few people who have stopped playing the game after getting to the more difficult areas of the game cause they didn't have the time to sit in town typing LFG or Forming Group For....Then have to deal with the normal crap of waiting for AFK's or for the group to make up their mind on how to handle the current situation. By catering to individuals wants and needs in the game more people would play and want to buy what comes out for it. This means big $$$ for the company and thats what they want.

Wow, have you ever written a paper for school? Usually paragraphs are helpful. They make your statement easier to read. As it is, I can't understand what you are saying there. We all know Anet is fine with farming, except when it is being done by bots. They nerf the farming areas to discourage the use of bots. Now if we couldn't farm, the ammount of certain items would drop significantly, take for example what they did to the HoD sword. Once the ammount of swords droppped, the price of the sword rose to around 400k. If we couldn't farm, where would we get money, and crafting materials. Sure we would have what little we recieved from doing the odd mission now and then, but we would all be poor as hell. Even what you said about going outside droks to pick up another 1000, that is farming. This thread has no purpose. I for one am happy for the farmers. If I had to go and spend hours in SF trying to get my shadestone, well I would be screwed, but hey guess what, I bought mine from a farmer for about 2-3k.

Argen · Mar 26, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Wow... please.. pretty please, INDENT! Ahhh, now that is settled. Most of the "economic" damage has already been caused, surprisingly not by farmers.

Most of the damage was caused by a global reset of the rare materials traders. This caused many people to become very "well-off," in an electronic sense of the term. Though, before this there were the rich players (farmers), a new and much more populous breed of wealthy players came about. These weren't the farmers, they were just lucky. After this came an influx of wealth that caused an ENORMOUS skyrocket in prices. This skyrocket was later downplayed by the addition of green items and heavy farming.

There was a time, in August, when silver dyes had crested at over a k, ectos were around 12k, and Rago's Flame Staff was around 125k. Perfect Golds were even more greatly expensive. Runes were capped at a particular price... 100k, the price that Superior Absorption held at for several months. Superior Vigors at around 60k. Lately, perhaps cause of farming, perhaps because of some sort of behind the scenes coding change by ANET, the prices of Runes have... ummm... plummeted. Absorptions are well below 50k to purchase, and right at 50k at the vendor.

The addition of the rabid farmers, playing more than 50% of their time has helped with this issue. Golds and greens have actually become far less expensive because the bulk of players have them, if they want them.

Day 1 after the TPK opening: WTS Victo's Blade c/o 100k+20 ectos
Day 45 after the TPK opening: WTS Victo's Blade 10k
Seems like the people who have been farming the heck out of Tombs have lowered the price for us significantly.

Now what your talking about is the initial hump more than anything else it seems. A PERFECT Gold Axe... costs around 70k, a PERFECT Green Axe around 30k, and a not so perfect collector's but -1 to -3 from perfect stats around 15k. Casters need even less money, able to get decent collector items (barring staves) for their needs. We have also seen ectos fall to their most affordable ever (except during the resets). This is largely due to the efforts of many 55 point monks and now their SS/SV/Echo compatriots.

The only type of farming I don't agree with is the semi-autonomous bot farming in use. As for players hacking apart a few hundred to a few thousand more monsters.

Now, I play about 3-4 hours every other night. Farm a bit, do missions with guildies and friends, do some PvPing, and generally have a good time. I'm on my 8th set of 15k armor, have a dozen or so sup vigs, 2 sup absorbs, all the greens I want, and about as many golds as I want. I also have about 90k in the bank...

So yeah, I'd say that its pretty affordable if your the average player.

Falcon213 · Mar 26, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Farming is a problem, it is the reason prices are so high and anet is against farming.

Anet it against farming? News to me, especially since they have said many times they support it, and is one of the reasons they haven't nerfed the 55 build any more.

Quote:

Why do you think people are afraid to post good farming locations?

Check out the monk forum for many great farming places.

Quote:

Why do you think when a good farming location becomes well known they "nerf" it?

So anet nerfed one spot. That was because it was way too easy for bots to get to. The scarabs they added weren't meant to keep real players out (although they did for the most part), they were just put in to stop bots.

Quote:

People buy them when they can afford them and those that find them sell them to people for cheaper than the rune trader but more than what the rune trader is offering. So at the trader end people are buying them at a much higher rate than whats being returned (sold back to the trader or merchan) and hence the high prices.

Ok, maybe I'm reading your extremely bad grammer and run-ons incorrectly, but the whole point of the traders is for people to lazy to sell their goods to real people. The price it buys items for is SUPPOSED to be lower than what you could sell them to real players for, to encourage you to sell them to other players. The price it sells items for is SUPPOSED to be higher than whay you could buy them from real players for, to encourage you to buy them from other players. The traders have NO EFFECT on item prices. Item prices on the traders are set by the players.

Quote:

The only other thing that would be easier to program into the game is a price cap. Say 5k cap on minor, 10k cap for major and 15k cap for superior. This applies to all items sold by the npc's and the only thing it really doesn't apply to are rare and green weapons and offhands since they can only be found. This solution however wouldn't have as much of an effect on people farming and wouldn't have any effect on those that hack.

There already is a max price as well as a min price that the traders buy and sell things for.

With all the ignorance you've shown us, don't expect to have any credibility when you post anything on this forum.

Mandy Memory · Mar 27, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

One. Huge. Paragraph.

But from what I read about the 1 in N and 1 in X....I agree.

I hope the rest was as insightful...because Im not going to get a headache in order to read it.

signed.

shardfenix · Mar 27, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

The game's drop ratios are not set to the number of people in the party; they are always the same no matter if you are solo farming or 8-man farming. The only difference is how the items get assigned. Everyone already has the same chance of finding an item.

Argen · Mar 27, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Well, that me demonstrate a plus to the farming...

Pre Griffon nerf, I came across a 15^50 sword... I'm like woot! I stick the mods I want on it and hang on to it. Gonna toss it onto my tank... Than a day or two later, I get a 14^50 and another 15^50 sword... so I keep the 14^50 sword and sell the other two off. Not for normal amounts, but for a bit less than I could make. And have a sword that hits for +34% damage (14+20 custom). So, instead of having 1 sword, I had three and dumped two into the market.

Had I been with a party (I did the Griffon farming solo for the 1st drop and than with guildies for the 2nd & 3rd) I would have clung to my 15^50 sword and never added anything to the market. Every time an item is farmed up that the farmer doesn't want, it gets put to the market... supply + demand. More supply... lower price on a high demand item.

fiery · Mar 27, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Farming helps the game economy move on, why kill it? Don't justify on bots, I think someone needs some love from no good drops dropping.

Hunter Sharparrow · Mar 30, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Wow completely missed the point.

First off, Argen, that reset happened so long ago any affects from it would've be over with long ago. Yeah sure the more rare weapons, offhands and greens that are farmed will lower their price but maybe, just maybe, that's because there is no trader to base a price off of. Players are forced to compete with each other so when you have a dozen people selling the same weapon with very few buying, they will ask for less. Yes, the reason rune prices have dropped is because of behind the scenes coding your absolutely right. That coding is making it harder to farm. The UW for example used to be easy and quick with a 55hp, now most people go down in 2 man teams. What difference is that? The difference is the drops aren't all that great and now instead of two people soloing it, they are together only getting half as much. 8th set of 15k armor? All the greens you'll need? And still 90k in storage after all that? For 3-4 hours a night...sniff, cough, cough, BS, cough.

Second, Falcon213...Sorry was my complex, yet correctly formatted sentence, too much for that space between your ears to handle. I'll put it a bit simpler for you. People assume that the increase of items from farming will automatically lead to price drops so they think they are doing good. They would be if, say for runes, sold every rune they found to the rune trader. That would certainly drop prices if that were the case but it's not. Instead they sell the expensive ones, which are the sought after ones, to people for just under what the trader is selling them for. This is so they get the most gold they can for it while still making it worth while to others who want it right now and can't afford the trader price or like to save every gold coin cause they may need it later. The rest who can afford what the people are selling them for will save themselves the hastle of trading with people and just spend the extra to buy it from the trader. This means more are buying from the trader than selling to which equalls high prices. Now the reason it's not jumping way up high again is because when it gets up in price the farmers start selling to the trader. This is to save themselves the time and hastle of dealing with others since most have a couple characters with top end armor and a small fortune in storage (by small fortune I mean anything over 100k) and don't care about the little extra they may get for it if it meant getting back to farming that much sooner.

Thank you Mandy Memory for agreeing.

You missed what I was saying shardfenix. I know that when your with a group of people an item drops all the time. What I was saying is instead of a 1 in N chance (N being the number of people in your party) of the item being assigned to you, you had a 1 in X chance (X being the max number of people able to be in your party) of the item dropping and being assigned to you despite the number of people in your party.

Argen again?? "Well, that me demostrate a plus to the farming..." and you accuse me of having "extremely bad grammer".

Last and least, fiery. Who is one of the people I mentioned who thinks "Farming helps the game economy". Maybe you should read what I said to Falcon213 again. Sure if your willing to sell every rune, ecto, shard or whatever the item may be back to the appropriate trader then farming may help the economy be more affordable to the average player not average farmer.

One saturday morning I when ettin farming for three hours since I had no choice if I wanted to either find or afford to buy a superior vigor and absorbtion for my warrior. Got many runes as you can see in another post where I posted a screenshot of a full inventory worth. I kept one superior vigor and gave one superior divine to a guild mate. I sold those with any value to the rune trader and the rest I just sold while still on the armor to the merchant since it was worth more that way. Best thing is the value for some of the runes when down after selling it to the trader making it that much more affordable for everyone.

quickmonty · Apr 13, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I'm not sure where you get the idea that rune farmers sell to people and not the merchant. Most rune farmers that I know don't want to waste time in town trying to sell a couple of runes. Most just dump them (the ones that have value) at the traders, unload all the trash at the merchant and head back out.

And what difference does it make if I sell to a person or the trader? Let's say I have a rune of superior vigor, and you want that rune. If I sell it to you the net change in the trader's inventory is zero. If I sell it to the trader and you buy it from the trader the net change in inventory is still zero. The only difference is that by dealing directly with each other I can make a little more profit and you can save some gold, with the end result being we both have a little more money to put back into the economy. Now ..... if enough farmers sell enough runes to the trader, the price *will* go down. And as long as there are more runes being sold to trader then being bought the price *will* go down. Therefore ...... more farmers equal *lower* prices.