Curse

Shamata · Apr 17, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Hello,

First let me preface by indicating the purpose of this post is as stated below.

I am fairly new to regular GW play and GW does not appear to have a feedback method at their official site, but indicated to “post in a fan site forum” hence this post.

I also realize that this is my opinion of this situation and not yours, even though I encourage differing opinions my real desire is to see a response from Gaile Gray or AN on the subject.

Can you please advise if Guild Wars (Arena Net) has any plans at all in the future to update the AI of the in game henchmen and if they are planning to include any simple commands, like wait, follow attack, etc for henchmen and pets alike?

I think it is a crying shame that the enemy AI is much more advanced than the henchmen AI and it gets very frustrating that you cannot even have the henchmen or pets wait or fall back when you need them too.

I really like GW but am becoming more and more frustrated with the game because of this easily fixable situation.

Being a gamer for a long time I know the incentive to change this for the better might not be there because you are trying to encourage grouping with real players which I think is fine for some or most.

Most online gaming companies believe grouping equals friends and social interaction, which equals players gaming longer and moving on to the new expansions with there new found social circle etc. and which is true again for some or most.

However there are some of us who are not dependent on the social aspect of gaming and already posses well adjusted social lives outside of the game and just like to game for 15 to 25 hours week for fun and relaxation.

Which is becoming more and more difficult to do because of something which can simply rectified.

Please consider this as I have seen (in forums), and heard from other players (yes I do talk to others) and I have not ever seen any response from AN on this subject.

As a former EQ1 and EQ2 player for over 5 years, one of the reasons among many EQ lost a good size player base was there unwillingness to pay attention to the needs of the solo type player, when they did finally realize there mistake they had already lost a lot of subscribers because of it.

In addition I offer the following regarding the new “Factions” expansion. I was holding off to see if any improvement in the henchmen AI or simple commands would be included. After the factions weekend I can see that there has been nothing done in either of these areas, hence I most likely will not be purchasing “Factions” for that very reason, as I do not think I can survive in the game.

In GW it is fine in the early levels but as you get to Aurora Glade mission and beyond it becomes more and more difficult to survive with just henchmen and pets.

Finally, thank you for the great game, please help us who depend on our pets and henchmen to survive and have fun, as this will keep us involved in the game for years to come.

Thank you,
Shamata

Cherno · Apr 17, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I really hate that you can't make the henchies, and even moreso pets, fall back. I was trying a BM build with a guildie to get a kepkhet's refuge and wanted to attack to draw the queen out. Of course the pet would go in, so she wouldn't pull and defeat the purpose.

I believe I read someplace that they were looking at making henchie commands in the near future, hope it works for pets as well.

Evilsod · Apr 17, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I just hope to god they remove Purge Signet from the henchman in Factions...

*goes to lure a group of necro spikers*
*help i'm dieing!!!!*
*never fear you shall die free of conditions and hexes!!*

The most useless skill i've ever seen. Even worse than them using Rebirth but still standing over the corpse... Although i suppose the preview helps them sort out bugs.

I do believe they intend to improve AI for Pets and Henchman, if you go to lure something they charge in and lure everything nearby, if you cast a spell they just stand there and watch... Luckily with the wide range of henchman we can get in Factions, we should be better off.
Although Domination Henchman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interrupt Henchman. Theres no comparison in the slightest, the Ranger AI interrupter can't compare to the Mesmer.

Hella Good · Apr 17, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

I heard some pretty good things about that inter ranger. It seems that for one, they got it right with the AI. I also heard they messed up Lina which was the only good henchie in Prophecies...

Heck, Lina was better than most Proto Monks out there (and definitely heals better than dumb Alesia). But stuff like rushing to the front to cast Restore Life on dead war henchie while a gang of monsters is banging and killing everyone else is... no comment. So yea, it's been said 1000 times: henchies AI is craptastic.

Ctb · Apr 17, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Fall back? Hell, I wish you could give them ANY command other than "attack this guy".

Even just "stop attacking" would be great. I'm sick of watching that idiot Thom run after a fleeing Necrid Horsemen he can't catch only to aggro six others that all converge on and massacre the spellcasters. It's always the same:

1. Attack.
2. Mage casts Fire Storm.
3. Victim mob from #1 flees
4. Tanks give chase.
5. Tanks aggro six nearby mobs.
6. Everything converges on the casters b/c the healers get closer to heal Thom.
7. Me and the Archer, disgustedly, try to kill nine monsters because everyone else got murdered.
8. Archer dies
9. I die

calamitykell · Apr 17, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Henchie control is coming, possibly chapter 3, but still coming.

Pet improvements are coming, no specified date, but they are coming.

Both have been confirmed by Gaile-chats and/or interviews with the developers. Specifics regarding both updates have not been disclosed so we don't know exactly how improved they'll be, but they'll be improved on.

Silent Kitty · Apr 17, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

This is thread number 10000 about this but I happily sign everything that mentions hench and pet AI.

/signed

Shamata · Apr 17, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Thanks for the replies it is encouraging to at least here that there are some plans somewhere along the line to improve the henchmen and pet AI.

Shamata

Y.T. · Apr 17, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

well after the last update smth happened to monk henchies - i've noticed that mhenlo and lina werent healing themselves even when they were at 50-100hp, they were running back and forth like kittens but none decide to heal - we were doing bonuses in few mission on fire isl with henchy monks and players got 60%DP cos every time tanks were attacking anything lina and mhenlo charged forward positioned themselves next to tanks and used no skills - just kept wanding the target mindlessly... i was sure they both tryed to use heal touch again but i was wrong - i checked what skills they used and guess what - they used no skills at all

mb thats a new bug tho....

Evilsod · Apr 17, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

My personal favourite is when i was on the way to Copperhammer from Iron Mines using henchman. Lina got totally obliterated by a large mob of azures, pinesouls and heretics (from below) and the rest of the hench were getting punished badly too. So i start to run off like you would.

Well i didn't bring a res, the ONLY surviving henchman was Mhenlo with a trail of dead henchman leading to Lina in the middle of a group of Azures. I stand over the corpses for a bit and Mhenlo just stands there... Go a bit closer, does nothing, move closer, does nothing, move closer, runs upto the Azures to try and cast Restore Life on Lina and promptly gets owned. AI for monks RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sucks!

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 17, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

/signed

Alleji · Apr 17, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Henchie control is coming, possibly chapter 3, but still coming.

Pet improvements are coming, no specified date, but they are coming.

Both have been confirmed by Gaile-chats and/or interviews with the developers. Specifics regarding both updates have not been disclosed so we don't know exactly how improved they'll be, but they'll be improved on.

You forgot the obligatory "Hi, Taiwan! Awesome, let's Conga!"

calamitykell · Apr 17, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

You forgot the obligatory "Hi, Taiwan! Awesome, let's Conga!"

Don't be hatin on Gaile

Misc Merik · Apr 17, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Dumb (Henchmen) and Dumber (People)

I honestly thought this is what it said before I clicked in and read the full thing. Darn I was so hoping for another why are pug groups retarded thread.

back on topic: Gaile said they were going to implement henchie controls so this might cease to be an issue later on. Even during the weekend FPE we saw a much larger more diverse group of henchman to choose from. I think Anet is aware of how lame henchies can be sometimes.

Shamata · Apr 18, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

"Dumb (Henchmen) and Dumber (People)"

I could see that being the title of a good post as well.

Well when I wrote the OP I really had no idea that there are plans for this so I am encouraged

Although I must confess that the word "soon" does come to mind.

Shamata

dargon · Apr 18, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I just listened to a podcast that had an interview with Jeff Strain and he says specifically that henchmen are getting a lot of focus in the coming months. Ch1 won't get new henchmen, but henchmen in general will be getting improvements. Furthermore, this type of change is not going to be chapter specific, everyone will get it, regardless of which game(s) they own. This also goes for the upcoming changes to player/player trade, which was also mentioned.

You can find the podcast http://www.vgmfusion.com/index.php?id=61

Due to the length of the interview, it's being split over the next 3 days (todays part took up roughly 20 min of a 30 min podcast). Trade changes discussion starts at 29:25 in the podcast.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 18, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Fall back? Hell, I wish you could give them ANY command other than "attack this guy".

Even just "stop attacking" would be great. I'm sick of watching that idiot Thom run after a fleeing Necrid Horsemen he can't catch only to aggro six others that all converge on and massacre the spellcasters. It's always the same:

1. Attack.
2. Mage casts Fire Storm.
3. Victim mob from #1 flees
4. Tanks give chase.
5. Tanks aggro six nearby mobs.
6. Everything converges on the casters b/c the healers get closer to heal Thom.
7. Me and the Archer, disgustedly, try to kill nine monsters because everyone else got murdered.
8. Archer dies
9. I die

WOW - just got a feeling of Deja Vu when I read your post!

/signed

jackie · Apr 18, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

It's good to know there's work on the AI, though it's more like hilarious sometimes

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamata

Hello,

First let me preface by indicating the purpose of this post is as stated below.

I am fairly new to regular GW play and GW does not appear to have a feedback method at their official site, but indicated to “post in a fan site forum” hence this post.

I also realize that this is my opinion of this situation and not yours, even though I encourage differing opinions my real desire is to see a response from Gaile Gray or AN on the subject.

Can you please advise if Guild Wars (Arena Net) has any plans at all in the future to update the AI of the in game henchmen and if they are planning to include any simple commands, like wait, follow attack, etc for henchmen and pets alike?

I think it is a crying shame that the enemy AI is much more advanced than the henchmen AI and it gets very frustrating that you cannot even have the henchmen or pets wait or fall back when you need them too.

I really like GW but am becoming more and more frustrated with the game because of this easily fixable situation.

Being a gamer for a long time I know the incentive to change this for the better might not be there because you are trying to encourage grouping with real players which I think is fine for some or most.

Most online gaming companies believe grouping equals friends and social interaction, which equals players gaming longer and moving on to the new expansions with there new found social circle etc. and which is true again for some or most.

However there are some of us who are not dependent on the social aspect of gaming and already posses well adjusted social lives outside of the game and just like to game for 15 to 25 hours week for fun and relaxation.

Which is becoming more and more difficult to do because of something which can simply rectified.

Please consider this as I have seen (in forums), and heard from other players (yes I do talk to others) and I have not ever seen any response from AN on this subject.

As a former EQ1 and EQ2 player for over 5 years, one of the reasons among many EQ lost a good size player base was there unwillingness to pay attention to the needs of the solo type player, when they did finally realize there mistake they had already lost a lot of subscribers because of it.

In addition I offer the following regarding the new “Factions” expansion. I was holding off to see if any improvement in the henchmen AI or simple commands would be included. After the factions weekend I can see that there has been nothing done in either of these areas, hence I most likely will not be purchasing “Factions” for that very reason, as I do not think I can survive in the game.

In GW it is fine in the early levels but as you get to Aurora Glade mission and beyond it becomes more and more difficult to survive with just henchmen and pets.

Finally, thank you for the great game, please help us who depend on our pets and henchmen to survive and have fun, as this will keep us involved in the game for years to come.

Thank you,
Shamata

Someone once wrote an article on how to use Henchman accurately in Guild Wars it is somewhere here in GW Forums:

Quote:

Effective Use of Henchmen

Originally Published by Sonya of Red

This article, which is the first of a three part series, is about the effective use of henchmen. It was first published within the forums of Ogaming's website and was later made into an article on that same site. The article is being reprinted here by the author (myself Sonya of Red). The ideas expressed here are obviously opinions I have formed based on my own style of game play and may not work out for you. Many of the ideas expressed here are not unique to me and have been used successfully by many people within these forums.

The reason I decided to write this henchmen guide was two-fold. First off, having gained quite a lot from reading these forums, I felt that I too wanted to give something back. Second, while there has been a lot of discussion about henchmen within these forums, usually the discussions are focused more on a specific mission or quest. The objective, of this article, is to discuss the effective use of henchmen to enchance game play.

So what is this?
While I titled this article as a guide, it really is not. A guide is something that leads you step-by-step to a destination, be it a physical destination or other (for example a guide on how to build a melee, sword bearing elementalist). This post is more of a kind of compendium of effective techniques that will make the use of henchmen easier and hopefully more successful.

You should find it in the Guides section in Guild Wars Guru homepage, once you read it you will be able to make better use of henchman (I know I have) for the time being.

What I would really like Anet to do with Henchman is allow them to have perhaps secondary professions or that you are able to edit their skillbars before you leave the Outpost/Town from a limited but useful selection. They should also increase the Henchmans/Pets AI to be more cunning and less "Lets go onward towards death!!!" also a few commands would also help somewhat like:
/holdposition Henchman hold their position and attack from their position if ranged or up to a certain limit if melee

/retreat Henchman will do the best they can to retreat from the group of enemies.

Also having a way to select a Strategy for them would also be viable sort of:

Healer Monk Available Strategies
Support- Concentrates more on support skills. Keeps distance from enemies
Heal- Concentrates more on health manteinance. Keeps distance from enemies.
Balance- Alternates between manteinance of health and support skills.

Just my two cents on it.

Esprit · Apr 18, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Most are aware of the guide to henchmen that lurks this forum somewhere. Though you should not need to have to do fancy key commands are rapidly click something else in order to give your henchmen direction. You should not need to wait 5 minutes to engage a mob for fear of henchmen cause aggro.

Enemy mobs have better AI... they even kite the henchies.