Curse

Fantus · Apr 19, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Hey now. I like the rest of your post, but no fair tarring all us PVP players with the same brush. Some of us dislike favor as much as you do.

I didn't intend to do that and I apologize if this part of my post made you think that. This paragraph was directed at the portion of the PvP community who wanted to have faction unlocks (which is a GOOD idea btw), but vigorously defends the favor system at the same time. If you are opposed to the favor system, that paragraph doesn't apply to you anyway.

chronosspawn · Apr 19, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Yes, nice post Fantus.

In regards to opinion 2: International guilds not being able to team up for UW/FOW areas.
There is an international guild some friends of mine joined. I would have join it too, but I'm not playing ANET's stupid "only 5 region switches" game. I like to do just a little UW/FOW, but I don't want to be restricted from doing it with guild friends, so I won't join that guild. Unfortunately. My American friends in that guild have switched regions to to play with the guild... but like I said, I won't do something major like this in a game that can't be undone. I also have a RL friend who moved to Japan, but he doesn't play the game, so I don't have to worry about that barrier I guess.

In regards to opinion 6: ANET Encouraging Racism
Yeah, this is the worst. Morally wrong IMO.

Dougal,
I remember ANETS original marketing statements about "GW not being a grind" and being able to "compete in PVP right away, with victories based on skill not hours played". Reading these two things, and knowing the history of ANET's founders, are hands down what got me to try the game. Those two things I found to be unfulfilled promises (aka. lies). Though while I call them lies, I will admit that these two statements apply to GW far more than any other RPG. As soon as I started playing the game, I discovered the PVP skill access being VERY limited until you unlock them. My point in all this is that no, I don't think elites should have to be unlocked through elites as it betrays the original promise of the game (even though it was an original element of the game). Even with the faction boost that happened so long ago, the unlocking system is still horrible. I sure hope Fort Aspenwood (I'm thinking that was the turtle siege map) and PVP maps like it aren't limited to PVE characters. It's fine at first, but then I'll be itching to play try a specific primary/secondary combo that I don't have a PVP for, and I won't want to grind a new PVE character through the game, so I can play Aspenwood a couple times with that build I just wanted to try. I think it will be limited to PVE characters though. So I think I'll wait till Factions comes out to see (from guild people who get the game) how much of this is done wrong. But if I don't get Factions, I'll probably rarely play period... which goes back to my old claim about ANET wanting to free up server space. Man that turtle siege was fun... I really hope they don't ruin it.

Sh4ft3d / NatalieD,
Yeah, just because most complainers are from a region that currently doesn't have favor, doesn't mean they liked it when their country has favor. Many have stated that they still hated it when they always had favor. One commonly only complains while chatting about things that doesn't effect them, but takes the effort to post when it does.

While I'm posting, here are some more sports analogies:
1) At a hypothetical international relays, only being able to participate in hurdles if your country wins the 50 meter dash.
2) Being at a basketball game, but only being able to buy a hot dog when your team scores the last 4 consecutive points. Stop complaining! It's a reward!

xXa1 · Apr 19, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

there is no such thing as a free lunch.

chronosspawn · Apr 19, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Free lunch? I paid for my account.

xXa1 · Apr 19, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

you paid to play the game as it was designed. if it is to be redesigned to suite your every demand, then the game would be pointlessly boring. where is the challenge in a game where you get everything you wish for?

you want to access FoW and UW, then do something to make sure your territory has favor. whining won't make a difference. quit it and face the reality of the game as it is. it was designed that way for that very purpose.

quickmonty · Apr 19, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

nice job trolling

xXa1 · Apr 19, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

there is a big difference between trolling and saying what is true. most of these nerf and redesign posts are really a waste of time from a whiny player base who fail to realize that the problem is not the game, but in many cases, them.

that i speak up to say so does not make me a troll.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 19, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

xXa1 - go win the HoH for me. Every night between 8:00 and 11:00 PM EST. Thanks.

quickmonty · Apr 19, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXa1

there is a big difference between trolling and saying what is true. most of these nerf and redesign posts are really a waste of time from a whiny player base who fail to realize that the problem is not the game, but in many cases, them.

that i speak up to say so does not make me a troll.

My comment was based on one post stating 'no free lunch', a reply from someone and then WHAM .... you had him hooked. Just thought it was funny. Didn't mean to be derogatory.

Ctb · Apr 19, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

No, it's just trolling. I'd say characterizing an obviously not-insignificant number of people who all have the same general complaint as "whiny" is a troll.

quickmonty · Apr 19, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

No, it's just trolling. I'd say characterizing an obviously not-insignificant number of people who all have the same general complaint as "whiny" is a troll.

Now that is trolling

chronosspawn · Apr 19, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

"No free lunch" was a short brief comment. That's why my "I paid" was equally brief. I'm not so ignorant as to think that $50 is justification for them to design it like I want, but it is enough to refute your "free lunch" claim. It's been pointed out several times that removing favor has nothing to do with a free lunch. Can you play HA any time you want? Yes. And since your just repeating stale arguments from this thread, yes, I'd agree that your trolling.

Oh yeah, and you "pay" to enter even when you have favor.

And regarding challenge, the prime challenge IMO (my opinion being that PVP is harder than PVE), is in having the skills to go head to head with another team.

Fantus · Apr 19, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXa1

you paid to play the game as it was designed. if it is to be redesigned to suite your every demand, then the game would be pointlessly boring. where is the challenge in a game where you get everything you wish for?

Ok, Anet please take faction based unlocking out of the game again. This guy wants to have the game back in its original state...

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXa1

you want to access FoW and UW, then do something to make sure your territory has favor. whining won't make a difference. quit it and face the reality of the game as it is. it was designed that way for that very purpose.

That's really the only line you pro favor people are able to give, aren't you? Well, it tells a lot about how weak your reasoning really is, if that's the only ammunition you guys have. None of you guys bothered to address ANY of the points raised in this thread and others (there are 12 in my post alone), but that's symptomatic for this discussion anyway. For your information - your "argument" pro favor system has been invalidated time and again...and I am sooo tired to repeat myself since you obviously don't read any posts here anyway.

Have a nice day

Banin Galori · Apr 19, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

Why do players have to be "encouraged" to do something they do not want to do!

Do you need to encourage someone to do something they wanted to do anyway?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

If a PvP player never plays in the PvE environment, he can unlock all skills, runes, and mods.

If a PvE player logs into ToA and his region does not have favor - too bad, no FoW/UW for you!

If a PvE player never touches the PvP environment, he can still unlock all skills, runes, mods, kill stuff, party with people, do missions, and progress the story - in short, do everything a PvE character does. Plus he gets access to all the cool unique weapons and armors, which a pure PvP player can't get.

There's limited content on both sides of the picture.

The points you made were clear, Fantus. I'd like to discuss them more.

Under Facts:
1. You're right, I can imagine it would be very inconvenient for the winners of HoH to take advantage of opening UW and FoW. If I'm not mistaken, though, don't winners of HoH get drops from a chest if they win? Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with rewarding the players in the winning region.

2. You're assuming that just because 2% of the players can win HoH, it must mean that only 2% of the players can try, and that only 2% of the players can work for favor. This is faulty logic. Point is, everyone can work for it, and the region as a collective whole gets rewarded for even one person winning.

3. That's not entirely correct. Ease of unlocking skills as well as unique weapons serve to encourage PvP people to PvE. Only difference is, most PvE people consider UW and FoW a much more integral part of their game than the comparative PvP advantages.

Under Opinions:

1. I agree. It's much better to reward people than to punish them. On the other hand, depending on the greediness of the population, rewarding the people that earn it, can just as easily be seen as punishing everyone else. It's really hard to say what people will think. Perhaps Dougal's? suggestion would be best, where those with favor can enter for free or have an easier job.

In any case, it seems a bigger issue here is the lack of other interesting areas in PvE.

2, 3, 4. Yes, these are problems, and should be fixed. Simply getting rid of the favor system is not the way to do it.

5. I believe the player pools in each region are large enough to make the quality of each region to be consistent, on average. Then again, I'm not exactly sure how teams are chosen for the HoH competitions, so there could be an inherent numbers advantage. Would anyone care to clarify?

6. Last time I checked, the regions weren't country specific. Europe certainly isn't a country, nor is America. For Korea, Japan, and Taiwan, a lot more people besides the people in the namesake countries participate. Nevertheless, you're right, it does seem to provoke racism and hostility, however irrational it may be. Perhaps something like the factions system will help ameliorate this.

7. Well, I'm pretty much a PvE player, besides a few random arenas here and there. I'm defending it for the sake of tying PvP and PvE together, not dividing it... how ironic. Nevertheless, I don't really see any PvP people actually defending it. It seems most people here would rather want Guild Wars split into two completely separate games.

8. No one's forcing anyone to do PvP. People are simply construing the reward of UW and FoW for doing PvP as punishment for not doing PvP, unfortunately. Just because GW has attracted PvE purists and PvP purists doesn't mean that people who'd like to do both should not be rewarded.

A PvE player should be rewarded for trying PvP. A PvP player should be rewarded for PvE. Not all rewards must go to completely one side or other, but it seems many people here are greedy enough to want everything to themselves.

I agree, the system isn't perfect. But the principles of the system must be preserved, for the sake of keeping Guild Wars a single game.

To (edited) chronosspawn:
1. Sure, if that's how it worked, it's perfectly fine.
2. Why not? As long as you offer plenty of other things for people to munch on in the meantime. Your "hot dog" is usually a victory cake and champagne, or something of that sort.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 19, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

My PvP history I've only done the Snowball Fights and the Pre to Post Sear Academy for Prophecies.

For FPE I participated in the Jade Sea and Fort Aspenwood. I loved the PvP they have introduced in Factions. Why? Because I was able to play, and win. As a casual PvP player, going to HA and constantly being made to feel subpar becasue I started PvP later then those with Rank6+, does give me a sour taste for any connection between the HoH and the PvE environment.

I like the aspect of the unresponsive temples when we don't have Favor. Even the access to the UW/FoW from ToA when we don't have Favor. But I feel there should be access to the UW/FoW from alternate, and difficult to reach area that is open at all times.

Keep the link between PvP and PvE for minor instances. But access to two very important areas (due to the uniqueness of the drops) should, no must, be attainable as a reward for those that desire to go there.

My UW history is two failed attempts from ToA, and 4 attempts from Tombs where I got halfway through the second level.

Never even tried to get in the FoW yet.

But I do realize the requirement for a change in the way Favor affects those who do not earn it but want the rewards, and those that earn it but do not desire some aspect of the rewards.

Factions will be my PvP choice. Where the fight in the Jade Sea (example) will be with other PvE characters and will directly affect my PvE environment. Where there will not be a FoTM because of the 12vs12 with a max of 4 per team. A more random assortment of characters. Regardless of Fame/Rank/Build.

Fantus · Apr 19, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Wow, finally an informed post to discuss..

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