Curse

BigTru · Jul 02, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Yep, keyword SEVERAL updates.

MilkBone · Jul 02, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I hate it when rangers whine about them having it bad, Rangers are one of the best chars but in the hands of noobs they might not perform as well as one being used by a vet player. For me i always try to include a ranger in my GvGs and pvp.

Lampshade · Jul 02, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Rangers are good.
I have one (though only in Northern Shiverpeaks)

Except for pets.
Pets suck (But look tight)

Izzy Izumi · Jul 02, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

A Ranger is great at what Anet made it for, a supporting damage/interrupt/conditions player. I find it wholly immersing because I'd have to keep track of all goings on in almost any given fight to make sure the bad things are doing what they're supposed to be doing...dying. However, if the Ranger were *too* powerful, i.e. more direct damage, "better" conditions...then it'd take out the balance. Rangers don't have to go up close, but being at range puts us at an advantage in being one of the last to target, but first to damage.

I don't play PvP yet, but I usually do first tastes of damage before anyone else does...so the mob healer would be busy casting off poison or busy healing himself to keep up with what the Warriors and Elementalists or whomever else is doing the majority of direct damage. Yeah, run-on sentence!

Flame · Jul 02, 2005, 12:46 AM // 00:46

There is one major problem with Rangers. People don't want us on teams, not because we aren't good, as I have had very nice Fissure and Underworld groups who said that without me, they would have been screwed, but because a lot of people are idiots, and happen to choose Ranger. So for every good Ranger that helps the group and does what they need to, there are ten whose thoughts don't go past "Look at my cool bow!"

BigTru · Jul 02, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampshade

Rangers are good.
I have one (though only in Northern Shiverpeaks)

Except for pets.
Pets suck (But look tight)

Your opinion, buddy. Because you are only in the Northern Shiverpeaks, I'm also having trouble taking your opinion for much worth because there are very few pet skills that are any good at the point in the game you are at.

Aaaaagh · Jul 02, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame

There is one major problem with Rangers.

There is one major problem with rangers, but its not that people dont want them. Its that they seem to whine alot more than others. I agree the druid armor thing sucks, and Im not flaming you for bringing it up.

Im making an observation, look at these boards, rangers are mentioned at least three times as much as any other class. I like rangers, I think rangers rule...very good in pvp.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jul 02, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbidden Angel

Rangers only have 1 weapon, like someone had posted awhile ago. And their only weapon is a bow. Everyone else gets 2 choices of a weapon. Warriors have a choice from a sword, axe and hammer. Necromancers, elementists, mesmers, they all have 2 choices. Rangers.... one.

Have anything to say..? post away..

I do have something to say to that... Wow, get a grip, you're stupid...

Rangers, 1 weapon? Ha, were you born yesterday, or did you get smacked upside the head with a stick?

Rangers have traps, pets, and a bow... with a nice (nearly perfect primary attribute), which we all know as expertise (Comes with some magnificant skills too... unlike the poor necro primary skill, which gets nothing... although that's a different discussion.. (and for the record, soul reaping rules in gvg and tombs... havent tried it in pve much...)

ComMan · Jul 02, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

I do have something to say to that... Wow, get a grip, you're stupid...

Rangers, 1 weapon? Ha, were you born yesterday, or did you get smacked upside the head with a stick?

Rangers have traps, pets, and a bow... with a nice (nearly perfect primary attribute), which we all know as expertise (Comes with some magnificant skills too... unlike the poor necro primary skill, which gets nothing... although that's a different discussion..

There have been MANY MANY MANY entire threads complaining about the fact that Rangers are FORCED to use Marksmanship because Bows are the only weapon they can get, and those are only liked to Marksmanship. It limits the possible Ranger builds because your gimp yourself by not having 12 Marksmanship. No other class has this issue.

CaptainGuru · Jul 02, 2005, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilkBone

I hate it when rangers whine about them having it bad, Rangers are one of the best chars but in the hands of noobs they might not perform as well as one being used by a vet player. For me i always try to include a ranger in my GvGs and pvp.

Ranger suck. They are good for pve, but pvp, they suck. They are only a threat if you ignore them too long.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jul 02, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

There have been MANY MANY MANY entire threads complaining about the fact that Rangers are FORCED to use Marksmanship because Bows are the only weapon they can get, and those are only liked to Marksmanship. It limits the possible Ranger builds because your gimp yourself by not having 12 Marksmanship. No other class has this issue.

you dont gimp youself one bit... were you hit by a stick?

Tell me how you gimp yourself... seriously...

As ranger being one of my favorite classes (because it rules so much), i don't understand how so many stupid kids can have such issues...

Such as talking about how other's have "different" weapon attributes... the ranger does too, and doesnt get gimped at all, and in fact, i guarentee you that my bow ranger using only expertise 8, wilderness survival 10, and beast mastery 13, would completely stomp many other rangers...

My dmg is simple, pet has bleeding dmg, i have poison dmg, and scavenger strike is helping quite a bit of dmg, not only that, but my pet has an aoe skill, called melandru's strike (sp off i bet), and i still have throw dirt, and troll unguent... tell me how i'm gimped with no marksmanship... cause i just proved you wrong.

Not to mention my pet still fights after i die... but, heck, i could go on forever about how great and many ranger builds i've made, and i never can find room for attributes in marksmanship (i normaly have maybe 1-2) since i normaly have 1 left over, and one minor rune... but heh... i should stop...

Serafita Kayin · Jul 02, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Ask any person on these boards that's partied with me if rangers suck.

It's the person behind the KB. And for the record, there are forum memebers who consistently amaze me with their prowess in all classes, so I know I'm not alone in feeling that it's skill, and not what's in his hands.

ComMan · Jul 02, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

you dont gimp youself one bit... were you hit by a stick?

Tell me how you gimp yourself... seriously...

...umm...how about 35% damage? Is that gimped enough? That's before armor as well, so you can easily hit for 1, if no 0, damage with a max damage bow. That's pretty gimped considering that a Monk can do 11-20 with only healing attributes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

As ranger being one of my favorite classes (because it rules so much), i don't understand how so many stupid kids can have such issues...

Such as talking about how other's have "different" weapon attributes...

Go equip your Wilderness Survival bow and come back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

the ranger does too, and doesnt get gimped at all, and in fact, i guarentee you that my bow ranger using only expertise 8, wilderness survival 10, and beast mastery 13, would completely stomp many other rangers...

There are a lot of really bad players out there with really bad builds. Point in case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

My dmg is simple, pet has bleeding dmg, i have poison dmg, and scavenger strike is helping quite a bit of dmg, not only that, but my pet has an aoe skill, called melandru's strike (sp off i bet), and i still have throw dirt, and troll unguent... tell me how i'm gimped with no marksmanship... cause i just proved you wrong.

That's an incredibly arrogent thing to say considering how false it is. If you take that Wilderness Survail (which is only getting your 8 dps under the circumstances) and switch it to Marksmanship you'd be doing far more damage. You'd lose Troll Ungent, which is a terrible PvP skill anyway, but you'd gain significant damage. If you can't do more than 8 DPS with a bow, even with the 84% damage you'd get at 10 Marks, you're doing something very wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

Not to mention my pet still fights after i die... but, heck, i could go on forever about how great and many ranger builds i've made, and i never can find room for attributes in marksmanship (i normaly have maybe 1-2) since i normaly have 1 left over, and one minor rune... but heh... i should stop...

Pets are worthless without you to babysit them. Even with 13 Beast Mastery they'll die very quickly if you're not supporting, they'll do terrible damage with Call of Haste and pet attacks, and they'll stand by your corpse and watch enemies kill your monk 5 feet away from them.

If you're too good for Marksmanship then you need to change classes right quick. Personally, I'd use it even if they introcued Ranger weapons that don't require Marksmanship.

HOWEVER, my build isn't always what I want to use. I switch my build often to accomidate what Tombs teams want me to carry, which often means I need to shift more points to Wilderness Surival or Beast Master than I'd normally have. Since I end up with less than 12 Marksmanship sometimes (which means I'm not doing full damage), I wouldn't mind being able to switch out for a WS or BM bow. However, I can't, because Rangers just don't get that option.

CaptainGuru · Jul 02, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serafita Kayin

Ask any person on these boards that's partied with me if rangers suck.

It's the person behind the KB. And for the record, there are forum memebers who consistently amaze me with their prowess in all classes, so I know I'm not alone in feeling that it's skill, and not what's in his hands.

All fights come down to what class you are and what moves you brought to the table not. No matter how good you are, a warrior who doesn't have a condition remover when fighting a ranger is going to go down quick. It doesn't matter how skilled you are, the right skills can take your build or any build out. So that's pretty null to mention what you can do.

Rangers suck because they are like the Bard from DnD. Like the Bard they are versatile, but do not specialize in anything so they suck compare to their counter parters. Rangers can be anti-casters, but the Mesmer can shutdown casters better than the Ranger. A ranger can do dps, but the warrior is better at it since he can be consistant with his attacks and the elementalist can do spike damage. Why would you need a ranger when just three of these characters can do it better.

ComMan · Jul 02, 2005, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

Rangers suck because they are like the Bard from DnD. Like the Bard they are versatile, but do not specialize in anything so they suck compare to their counter parters. Rangers can be anti-casters, but the Mesmer can shutdown casters better than the Ranger. A ranger can do dps, but the warrior is better at it since he can be consistant with his attacks and the elementalist can do spike damage. Why would you need a ranger when just three of these characters can do it better.

I felt this way for a long long time. Most people will just say, "no they don't, you just suck!" However, a few people actually decided to show me what I was doing wrong and help me get it right. Once you know what you're doing as a Ranger you really are much more powerful than you think.

You bring spirits to the table, which are easily the Ranger's biggest asset. Spirits can totally eff the other team and give your team huge boosts if you and your team know what you're doing. Take the time to collect every spirit and know how they work. They'll be a big part of your job once you get to the Tombs.

The Arena is a bad judge because it's so circumstantial. Sometimes I walk in with Melandru's Arrows and wipe the floor with W/Mo's who are running enchantments. Other times I'll go in and get owned by Smiting Monks. You never know what you'll run in to and you can't counter everything. If you carry skills to counter more common builds, you'll probably be better off though. I reccomend Melandu's Arrows, since so many people run Enchantments, but you might prefer others.

Gerbill · Jul 02, 2005, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Ranger has more weapons
-different bow types.
-pet

but if you look at it.
you always have the weapons of your sec. prof.
if you're warrior you could just use those...
or any other as long as you put attribute points in them.

Ranger is Ranger.. Ranger is not BowUser.
think bout it.
Ranger/Warrior -> use a sword for example.. and it's like you're a sword wielding nature animal lover or something similair.
Ranger/Necromancer -> Death magic, high expertise + pet.. lots of minions n a pet..

Ranger has more to it than just a bow, though most skills are linked to your bow yes. but don't complain it's your only choice and you're forced to.. cuz you're not.

besides.. if you don't like using a bow.. I mean you choose to be a ranger.. if you don't like playing with a bow you should've either thought oh I won't be using the bow skills just the rest.. to do similair things as I stated above.
If you choose a ranger but you don't like using a bow, and you don't want to use methods like stated above.. then you're just dumb for choosing one.
Go play something else if you want to get rid of that bow so badly.

BigTru · Jul 02, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

There have been MANY MANY MANY entire threads complaining about the fact that Rangers are FORCED to use Marksmanship because Bows are the only weapon they can get, and those are only liked to Marksmanship. It limits the possible Ranger builds because your gimp yourself by not having 12 Marksmanship. No other class has this issue.

They aren't forced to use Marksman because it isn't their only weapon.

Fact: Pet's have the same properties as every other weapon (Slashing, Piercing, Blunt)

Fact: If push space while targeting a foe, the pet will attack the enemy in the same way a hand weapon would.

Fact: Pet's have a weapon bracket just like hand weapons (Example: Elder Widow: 17-29 Damage). Their damage range and critical hit rate increases as you increase beastmastery, just as Weapons have requirements and have increased critical hit rate with more points invested in it.

Fact: Pet's have an attack speed, just as weapons do.

I tear shit up in PvP and PvE and I do not have 12 in Marksmanship. Mabey you should actually try something new instead of trying the same old tired and tested builds and you will see their is more builds than just shutdown rangers and barrage-bots? Beastmasters and Spirit Rangers are both highly underated at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

Ranger suck. They are good for pve, but pvp, they suck. They are only a threat if you ignore them too long.

You have either A) Never played with a good Ranger, B) Are new and never seen a spirit Ranger, C) Never played as Ranger, or D) Sucked at Ranger when you did play it.

ComMan · Jul 02, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Well, it's nice to know that people read entire posts before going, "Nuh-uh! You're totally stupid!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

Personally, I'd use it even if they introcued Ranger weapons that don't require Marksmanship.

HOWEVER, my build isn't always what I want to use. I switch my build often to accomidate what Tombs teams want me to carry, which often means I need to shift more points to Wilderness Surival or Beast Master than I'd normally have. Since I end up with less than 12 Marksmanship sometimes (which means I'm not doing full damage), I wouldn't mind being able to switch out for a WS or BM bow. However, I can't, because Rangers just don't get that option.

Once I learned how to use it at least somewhat effectivly, I grew to like my bow. However, if I have to lower my Marksmanship to pump up an attribute my team needs more, then I'm punished for that in a way that no other class is.

As for pets as weapons: my bow doesn't take up 2 skill slots just to equip and I don't have to babysit it. My pet, on the other hand, takes up 2 skill slots (charm and comfort) just to equip, more to be useful, I have to constantly heal and buff it, it can't be upgraded, it won't give me health, mana, or armor the way that my bow will, I can't use preps on my pet, and my pet can not use any Armor Penetrating attacks.

So, if I have to spec Beast Mastery to carry 3 spirits for my team, I should be using that "weapon" INSTEAD of my bow? Hmmm....no. I think I'll just take my reduced damage and maybe babysit my pet if I have free slots.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jul 02, 2005, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

...umm...how about 35% damage? Is that gimped enough? That's before armor as well, so you can easily hit for 1, if no 0, damage with a max damage bow. That's pretty gimped considering that a Monk can do 11-20 with only healing attributes.

Go equip your Wilderness Survival bow and come back.

There are a lot of really bad players out there with really bad builds. Point in case.

That's an incredibly arrogent thing to say considering how false it is. If you take that Wilderness Survail (which is only getting your 8 dps under the circumstances) and switch it to Marksmanship you'd be doing far more damage. You'd lose Troll Ungent, which is a terrible PvP skill anyway, but you'd gain significant damage. If you can't do more than 8 DPS with a bow, even with the 84% damage you'd get at 10 Marks, you're doing something very wrong.

Pets are worthless without you to babysit them. Even with 13 Beast Mastery they'll die very quickly if you're not supporting, they'll do terrible damage with Call of Haste and pet attacks, and they'll stand by your corpse and watch enemies kill your monk 5 feet away from them.

If you're too good for Marksmanship then you need to change classes right quick. Personally, I'd use it even if they introcued Ranger weapons that don't require Marksmanship.

HOWEVER, my build isn't always what I want to use. I switch my build often to accomidate what Tombs teams want me to carry, which often means I need to shift more points to Wilderness Surival or Beast Master than I'd normally have. Since I end up with less than 12 Marksmanship sometimes (which means I'm not doing full damage), I wouldn't mind being able to switch out for a WS or BM bow. However, I can't, because Rangers just don't get that option.

You don't need a wilderness survival bow, it gives you traps, poison dmg, and survival skills (hence the name), you arent gimped out of much dmg, and in some cases, given more... really... you still havent passed grade school? Un-able to count?

Of course there are alot of bad players out there... but those arent the players i'm talking about... my pet interuption skills + my interuption skills = shutting out a ton of your skills, and for that fact, any "pure bow" rangers, just by me being able to spam my interuption skills (with my perfect expertise-- comes in like a charm)

If i switch from wilderness survival to marksmanship... i won't really change much dmg... since my dps can be placed on many characters (poison), and last for 24 seconds or so (On all my enemies, rather then just one target... and at the same time, my pet is attacking one target)... you're still stupid, and you have nothing to back your theories up... i have tested, and proven that you don't need marksmanship for full dmg output. If you have any skill, you'd understand what happens in a battle(Outside of the numbers that you see for direct damage... poor "newbies"*i dont like that term, but it is needed in some cases as horrible as this*) maybe if they showed pet dmg, i'd be able to show you my "Weapon X"-- pet ranger with massive dmg... winnowing + order of pain, boo ya!(Order of pain isnt as usefull for the person casting it, and it makes it more usefull as a team helpfull skill (or for your pet in those fun little 4v4's), (Mixing classes can be a plus)...

Or how about snaring the enemy, blinding them, and then setting traps around them? That's right... but sometimes a good snare takes a second class (Holy crap, you mean you can mix skills and make better characters? No way dude...!!) You morons that think rangers suck... Ever tried halls of hero's with poison/bleeding, and use epidemic (Oh yea... you can mix epidemic skill, and still have barrage... Wow, aoe effects and dmg!! (Oh wait, that's using marksmanship, and that's what we're trying to avoid here, so i won't talk about many more marksmanship skills).. (Very good for the massive numbers of people within a small area) just one small good mix...

Of course pets are near worthless without me alive... but it's still about 5-10 more dmg per hit then your dead ass... point in case moron. and if my allies res me (which should happen) i still dealt a reasonable (and very pathetic) dmg rate to the target. and sometimes people stop to target a pet after i die (Which gives other allies more time to res/kill other enemies--- another stradegy skill, hmm...)

Lampshade · Jul 02, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

I got into a group with 3 Rangers and a Warrior in Sarlecdec Sanitarium today with my Ranger.