Curse

Nevin · Mar 10, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

By this I mean dividing the Warrior. The warrior is arguably the most popular class of any MMORPG or RPG, and is very diverse. What I'd like to see is the current warrior turn into an all out fighter so to speak, more damage, dual wielding the works. Then have another class called Defender, who'd be basically a tank with huge shields and blunt weapons like maces and one handed hammers.

Warrior:

Strength: (Instead of 1% I think it should be 1.3%, can use strength required shields with 16 AP)

Dual/Swordsmanship Mastery: (More Riposte type attacks)
Dual/Axe Mastery: (More skills like cyclone axe)
Hammer Mastery: (Same but hammers should have some defensive skills)
First Aid: (Weak Heals)

AP: 75, Lots of armor sets with +20 or +25 vs Physical Attack.

Defender:

Armor Mastery: (Every point would increase your Armor AP by 5%, And shields by 5% AP)

Blunt Mastery: (One handed hammers, Maces, Morning Stars)
Shield Mastery: (Would have lots of shield bash skills that stun, weaken etc etc. )
Tactics: (Taunts that would gather aggro to you in PvE, make target foes in PvP suffer -1 energy until they engage you, some self heals, and stances.)

AP: 70, Lots of Armor sets with Elemental Buffs, Piercing Buffs, Slashing Buffs etc etc. For shields there would be ones that require Shield Mastery, Tactics, and some that require Armor Mastery.

(All together if a Defender had 12 Armor Mastery he'd have (With a shield), 121 Armor at all time. So thats not too unbalanced, considering if he went up to 16 he'd have somewhere in the 140's, and plus all his stances and stuff)

This is a very early draft, and I have yet to add skills. This is just to get the idea floating around and see how the community responds.

Please no comments like this:
Q: One class that can kill in a second, and one class that can never die. Whats the point???
A: They would be balanced in and effective.

abyssal hunter · Mar 10, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

wouldnt that make guildwars too much like EQ2?

Nevin · Mar 10, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Wouldn't know, never played EQ2.

Arson · Mar 10, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

i would like to see like a polerarm and katana class...Lancer..and Shogun for the name of classes...

actionjack · Mar 10, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

I can only see very few skills that would fall under First Aid attribute.

And I had a problem in writing my Protector class before, in which how would you blance out thier high AL? Remember, we have dual class afterall, and notthing is stoping you from taking a Protector AL and Warrior or Assassin's attacks.

Nevin · Mar 10, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

I can only see very few skills that would fall under First Aid attribute.

And I had a problem in writing my Protector class before, in which how would you blance out thier high AL? Remember, we have dual class afterall, and notthing is stoping you from taking a Protector AL and Warrior or Assassin's attacks.

If A-Net actually took this into consideration I'm sure they'd figure out a way, After all we give suggestions not do their work.

Edit: Made a new idea to restrict the high armor of a Defender to Defender only.

Mandy Memory · Mar 10, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

This would make my current warrior with 400 hours pointless...lol (not that I care much, but most people will)

I dont really like it...It would just make warriors even more played...You took the highest damaging class and gave it steroids.

Symbol · Mar 10, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

This idea is just horribly bad.

First of all it's completely redundant. We already have a high offense/low defense melee profession coming in factions, it's called the assassin (hey, it even dual wields!). I suggest you look into it.

Secondly warriors don't need any attention lavished on them, and they certainly don't need any more offense. What do you want, anyone hit by a warriors to explode into giblets immediately?

Warriors are already the most popular class, they have the best offense and the best defense rolled into one, and generally a pretty well-balanced and diverse skillset.

How you can justify this sort of request when we already have a class badly in need of attention (*cough*, elementalist) is beyond me.

Mandy Memory · Mar 10, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

This idea is just horribly bad.

First of all it's completely redundant. We already have a high offense/low defense melee profession coming in factions, it's called the assassin (hey, it even dual wields!). I suggest you look into it.

Secondly warriors don't need any attention lavished on them, and they certainly don't need any more offense. What do you want, anyone hit by a warriors to explode into giblets immediately?

Warriors are already the most popular class, they have the best offense and the best defense rolled into one, and generally a pretty well-balanced and diverse skillset.

How you can justify this sort of request when we already have a class badly in need of attention (*cough*, elementalist) is beyond me.

Anyone, that isnt a warrior, that gets hit by a warrior ALREADY explodes into giblets immediately...At least a charged up warrior...

Elementalist has no hope...I suggest a new replacement class. E/Mo smiters were pretty good...make a new class called acolyte thats just an E/mo smiter...

Nevin · Mar 10, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

This idea is just horribly bad.

First of all it's completely redundant. We already have a high offense/low defense melee profession coming in factions, it's called the assassin (hey, it even dual wields!). I suggest you look into it.

Secondly warriors don't need any attention lavished on them, and they certainly don't need any more offense. What do you want, anyone hit by a warriors to explode into giblets immediately?

Warriors are already the most popular class, they have the best offense and the best defense rolled into one, and generally a pretty well-balanced and diverse skillset.

How you can justify this sort of request when we already have a class badly in need of attention (*cough*, elementalist) is beyond me.

Please no comments like this:
Q: One class that can kill in a second, and one class that can never die. Whats the point???
A: They would be balanced in and effective.

Obviously not quite as horrid as your reading skills, please read through out the whole post. And out of curiousity enlighten me.. Every profession or its secondary in GW has a form of "crippling" their target. How exactly would the warrior smash you into oblivion if he could never reach you in the first place, And ah yes.. Wouldn't it be so satisfying to be able to kill a warrior with Fire Magic just as quickly as you would be able to kill a caster with it? YOU DON'T NEED TO BUFF A CLASS TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE.

Symbol · Mar 10, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

My reading skills are perfectly fine.

Your idea is crap for all the reasons I've listed, none of which you've addressed, and none of which were "prohibited" by your original post.

Quote:

.. Every profession or its secondary in GW has a form of "crippling" their target. How exactly would the warrior smash you into oblivion if he could never reach you in the first place, And ah yes.. Wouldn't it be so satisfying to be able to kill a warrior with Fire Magic just as quickly as you would be able to kill a caster with it? YOU DON'T NEED TO BUFF A CLASS TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE.

I don't know what your point is here (or whether you have one, really) or what it has to do with the original post. Could you please rephrase this in normal English?

Mandy Memory · Mar 10, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

lol Ele needs a buff to make it effective.

But really, changing a current class would upset a lot of players. Anyone with a warrior...Its not a very good idea, but the defencive guy is a start for a good new class...and the other is just an assassin.

Vilaptca · Mar 10, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

But really, changing a current class would upset a lot of players. Anyone with a warrior...Its not a very good idea, but the defencive guy is a start for a good new class...and the other is just an assassin.

Yup. Mandy hit it dead on. There is no need to change the Warrior at all. Especially your suggestions...how pointless with the Assassin coming out so soon...

Oh and your Tactics for the Defender....I'm still laughing about the Taunts...were you being serious?

A insanely defensive character is a nice idea for a character, but I think you went a little overboard...

Siren · Mar 10, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

What I'm wondering is...if these two classes are designed to split the current Warrior character in the first place...Nevin, sorry, dude, but I'm asking what's the point? Your goal here is to split the Warrior, correct?

Defender/Warrior combination and you're back to square one (square one being there's a full-blown Warrior again). Hell, even Warrior/Defender combination and you're back to square one (square one being there's a full-blown Warrior again).

And if you say "then they wouldn't be able to take a secondary, so it's balanced," I'm going to suggest that it's far from balanced; it's just pointless.

Especially when, like others have pointed out, we're getting an Assassin in Factions, which is total offense (and hit-n-run, no less).

While I certainly wouldn't mind some type of Defender class...I don't think this is it.

actionjack · Mar 10, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

I would sorta agree, in that I don't like how the Warrior was orginally made into a Tanker And a Melee Damager. However, that is just the way things are, so work with it. (and while it is not our job to make classes, but since you put it up on the fourm, adding more detail to it would help making your point better, more persuasive to why there should be such class)

While I think the role of a defender is fine, I just don't think it would fit into the current layout of the professions. I think they would only be stand out if there was another Heavy Melee Damager dealer class added (I am thinking of a Beserker)

Also you still not making a balance check to their high AL. (since thing prob will become unblance when you get to have 100+ of AL) While I thought of having them be able to wear a Heavy Armor type of armor that will decrease your speed unless you put your point in their primary... but not sure how well that would go. So wonder how you of done it.

And I did wrote a Paladin/Protector class out before with Aura, Protection, Mace Mastery, Shield Mastery (and a undecided primary), but that one still need some rework. But look at it if you like.

Nevin · Mar 10, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Symbol: In my original post I said to not post anything along the lines of "This is pointless" because it doesn't really add or help out at all, and I already adressed the reasons it wouldn't be pointless.

As for your comment on the Elemantist, I posted that if one warrior were weaker the Elemantist would be able to kill him quicker.. I don't see what the problem with Ele's is either. Spikers own in PvP, Water Magic is good against casters, Fire Magic is good AoE, Geomancers make good support/tanks. Buffing them wouldn't help all buffing does is unbalance, but nerfing other classes so they could be more effective in PvP would help.

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Anyways, My main concern is, if warrior remains the way he is. There won't be a point for a Defender or Berserker, everyone will just say instead of going to either extreme just go warrior they're the perfect balance of both.. In which I got the idea to turn the warrior into a "berserker" in which I eliminated the best of both worlds warrior. In theory if you combined them, it'd make the warrior we know today..

Soul Shaker · Mar 10, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

No, not the nerfs, the buffs. Think of it like this: You nerf something, you make it boring. You destroy builds. Less damage=longer match.

Yes, as it is, you are splitting the warrior into 2 classes, one more adept at both aspects of a warrior. Revamping a class isn't something to do. It destroys hard work, and then it eliminates what could be a fun class to someone else. Defender is just too overboard there. We don't need a bigger tank than we have already. Tanks=no fun in PvP. It's like a 55 monk. Ooo, can anyone say farm?

And with the unfinished nerfing point, buffing makes the game faster, more intense, split second decisions. It will make healers come back if they can have fun.

LightningHell · Mar 10, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Spikers own in PvP
Water Magic is good against casters
Fire Magic is good AoE
Geomancers make good support/tanks.
nerfing other classes so they could be more effective in PvP would help.

I've not seen Obsidian spikers for quite a long time already.
Water Magic is better against Warriors. Come off it.
I'll skip the Fire Magic and Geomancer because I think you're talking about PvE.
Nerfing other classes would take ages and more work.

This idea, in another form would be good. In this form, definitely not. Just add another class similar to the Warrior, except more defensive. That would be nice.

Mordakai · Mar 10, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

First of all, your not nerfing the Warrior, you're buffing him:

Quote:

Strength: (Instead of 1% I think it should be 1.3%, can use strength required shields with 16 AP)

And Defender is ridiculous. Nothing is worse than facing against a practically invulnerable Profession (Defender/Mo), who can't kill you either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Spikers own in PvP, Water Magic is good against casters, Fire Magic is good AoE, Geomancers make good support/tanks. Buffing them wouldn't help all buffing does is unbalance, but nerfing other classes so they could be more effective in PvP would help.

Please, my Mesmer is a better Spiker than any Ele. And a better counter than any Water Ele. Sure, AoE spells are a Ele's forte, but useless in PvP (too long casting, either gets interupted, or everyone just moves away).

Geomancer's are great tanks, sure, as long as they don't get Disenchanted... then there's the problem of them actually doing any damage. You can only spam Obsidian Flame for so long...

No, Eles need to be buffed in a big way. Read this thread for more insight, from someone much more knowledgable about PvP than I:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...y+nuking+sucks

Mordakai · Mar 10, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

This idea, in another form would be good. In this form, definitely not. Just add another class similar to the Warrior, except more defensive. That would be nice.

Noooo! W/Mo is already defensive enough. Hell, Warrior with right stances and shouts is already defensive enough...