Curse

shardfenix · May 09, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Arenanet, I'm gonna give you 10 seconds to think about why you nerfed old school Natures Renewal.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
You skipped the line, think for 8 more seconds...

You nerfed NR because it removed all enchantments from everyone on the map, right? too broken?

Order of Apostacy - 25, 2, 0
For 5 seconds, enemy enchantments don't matter.

EVERY defense that good builds had against IWAY just went down the toilet because of this rediculously powerful spell.

In addition, ranger spike has become increasingly powerful (pi's 21 consecutive wins the other day was aided with OOA). We could kill a ghostly hero on an altar without worrying about what enchantments were on it, because of our 2 second elite profane that doesnt need a corpse.

My suggestion - do one or more of the following things to OOA:

Make it only trigger once per player - like Dark Fury does.

Add recharge time (20-30 seconds?)

Give it the same nerf that you gave to Order of the Vampire.

This skill is the new old school NR as it is right now

Zui · May 10, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

/signed

Great idea for a skill, but in it's current form it's just way too powerful.

Terra Xin · May 10, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

/signed

Yeah, when you think of it that way, the penalties don't outweigh the benefits. Fine tuning this spell would be nice.

Duke Slytalker · May 10, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

/signed

Yeah, when you think of it that way, the penalties don't outweigh the benefits. Fine tuning this spell would be nice.

I thought the point of "elite" skills (or any skill for that matter) is so that the penalties DONT outweigh the benfits, if they did no one would use the skill.

shardfenix · May 11, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

True, but the point of elite skills is not to completely destroy EVERY other build out there.
Apostacy as it is can destroy any build, since every build uses enchantments. This skill kills aegis, bonders, seed, hands, pretty much any type of defensive spell in the game. This is NR all over again, and it needs a huge nerf, it is being way too abused right now.

MelechRic · May 11, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Maybe make the sacrifice a lot bigger. Start it at 50% and go to 25% with max points in blood.

It should be like a nuke, but not an unlimitted nuke.

Navaros · May 11, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

They should leave it as it is.

They already wayyyy over-nerfed IWAY and the Warrior class.

No need for them to continue to over-nerf every single good skill that comes out.

Anet, stop nerfing, please.

Apostacy is fine as is.

Guardian of the Light · May 11, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Well guys considering we haven't even seen this skill in action on an IWAY team I suggest we wait a moment before deciding to nerf it.

Remember its 25 energy cost, is in Curses instead of Blood and sacs health each time you remove an enchantment you sac health even at max thats 12% which doesn't take long with 4 IWAY warriors with tiger's to kill you.

In other words don't nerf something until you know its overpowered.

Hella Good · May 11, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

OK... this is ridiculous. OoA is very costly to maintain. 25 nrg and 14% life sac per chant removed... do you realize how heavy that is? Mind, you this is with 16 in Curses. And the whole IWAY thing... I hate IWAY BUT I don't think it's anyhow broken or that OoA has suddenly made it horribly broken again. People stack chants vs IWAY... going on the defense is never a good strategy.

Take out key elements of the build, go hex heavy on the warriors, don't kill the pets, have good corpse control- these are all good strategies to employ. Oh no, Aegis is gone...

Gee, what's Ward vs Melee and Ward vs Foes? It gets me angry to see people complain about a build when they do NOTHING to counter it...

Again, I do not play IWAY, I do not like IWAY, but I do not feel IWAY, and esp. OoA is anyhow broken.

I mean seriously, with Factions chants can be easily removed through so many skills. There is nothing wrong with a Necro being pro in this. In fact Necros were right from the start supposed to be the anti-Monk class but they never really were. Now Boon Prot actually requires some skill to pull. Big deal, get over it!

EDIT: Forgot to mention OoA is a double edged sword. Yes, it does remove proto chants and bonds but it also removes OTHER ORDER SPELLS WITH NO SAC. OoA can remove OoA, OoP, OoV- do you realize how damaging this can be vs a build that counts on those orders to significantly boost their damage? (IWAY, Ranger spike)

MoldyRiceFrenzy · May 11, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

yep very true

/sign

Rion · May 11, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

IWAY is fine anyway. If your team is set up well you shouldn't have a problem with it.

OoA costs 25 energy to cast. For 5 seconds! For a Necromancer!

Hella Good pretty much said all I have to say.

Drop the god damn nerf stick.

natus · May 11, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

/notsigned
the skill itself may seem to powerful, but as someone said above, it's a dual edged sword, it cancels the effect of other orders and nec enchants, it pretty much kills the necro if too many enchants are removed.

but but but, if your enchants don't work, there's always rit spirits...ok maybe not because they would not fit into your build or they would be killed..

Zui · May 12, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Umm, it doens't negate any other necromancer enchantments except Order of the Vampire(on allies). Which is also an elite skill, and is also totaly negated by ANY other necromancer enchantments.

The point about it removing Order of Pain is totaly false, unless of course the poster was refering to Order of Pain being removed on foes. And of course it removing enchantments on foes is the exact reason this is skill is extremely powerful.

art_ · May 12, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

nerf plz.

Vaga · May 12, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

It doesn't need nerfing...

Casting it one time, takes 50% of an average necromancers energy, and then 12% of their health per hit.

If your build relys completely on enchantments then it is probably a gimmick like Blood spike anyway.

It's good that you can't just put 20 enchanments on the ghostly and make him invincable.

Bahumhat · May 12, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Yes, it seems powerful, but it doesnt. If you are not running a FC curses mes, or a curses nec. It will take huge amounts of your health away. 25% per enchantment is alot. So its either risk dieing, or still saccing alotta health.

I vote for it not to be changed.

Manda Panda · May 12, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

They already wayyyy over-nerfed IWAY and the Warrior class.

Are you serious? Every skill update they buff the crap out of warriors. There have been nerfs, but compared to the buffs they're almost negligible.

Aera · May 12, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

25 is nothing for a necro, it has soulreaping remember? They have spirits remember? They have pets remember? Everytime one of those spirits or pets die he gains another 9 or 10 energy, so the 25 energy is NOTHING.

Now, how about changing the spell like this:

Order of Apostacy:
For 5 seconds, whenever any party member hits a foe with physical attack, he removes an enchantment that way. When Order of Apostacy ends, you lose 15% max health for every enchantment removed that way.

That way, he won't be able to get healed by the other necro in the meanwhile, he just gets all the damage at once. Thoughts? Comments?

Cirian · May 12, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

25 energy is only "nothing" if bodies are dropping like flies. This is a seriously high maintainance spell. The maintainance looks prohibitive, but it does look ideal for spiking where 5s is enough.

Evilsod · May 12, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Ok so it costs 25 energy... How often does it take for Ranger Spike to kill a target? Erm... 3/4 of a second between Dual Shot and Punishing Shot.

So you regen about 7-10 energy between spikes and of course, gain energy from SOUL REAPING! 25 energy means nothing when the target drops dead after having no protection at all leaving you with a net loss of 5-10 energy.

That spell just seems so overpowered its utterly stupid.

/signed