Curse

erick5876 · May 30, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I propose the addition of 2 new skills for assassins using the shadow arts attribute, involving a new status: invisible.

Invisible would be a condition that makes the character un-targetable for a duration, effectively removing all hate, and stopping damage. It would also make the character disappear from other players screens. It would end if a character got within touching distance of a monster or an opposing player in PvP.

Vanish - 7 energy, 20 recharge, 0 cast time
Your character becomes invisible and moves 25% faster for 2-5 seconds. Invisibility ends and you are knocked down if any attack or skill is used.

Hide In the Shadows - 10 energy, 30 recharge, 8 cast time
Your character becomes invisible for 5-25 seconds. Invisibility ends if any attack or skill is used.

I believe these skills would provide both a viable escape route, and a different method of attack and movement, improving the survivability of assasins. Plus it would be freakin sweet to run up behind your opponent, and appear out thin air to deliver a swift, painful combo.

The skills could count as either enchantments or stances also.

If these are unbalanced, a certain health sacrifice, or degeneration could be applied upon use of the skill. I also think that invisibility could add a fun new game mechanic. I think it would be cool for some monsters to have this ability, and to apear out of nowhere in some areas. It would keep everyone on their toes.

Invisibility could work for other classes also. This status effect could also be put to good use (and still remain in context) for the mesmer profession. It fits in with their illusion magic. And so, I offer this skill for them:

Veil of Invisibility - 8 energy, 30 recharge, 2 cast time
Target character (self or ally) becomes invisible for 2-5 seconds. When invisibility ends, all skills must take 5-3 seconds to recharge. If interrupted, all skills take 5-3 seconds to recharge.

I have searched the forums, and I've only found this mentioned once before (and not in any detail) by Aeon_Xin.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=80738

Quote:

Skill ideas:

Ignore armor(or do a % on armor reduction)
Invisibility/cloaking while standing still
Invisibility/cloaking while on the run

Please post your suggestions for other uses of invisibility or support!

Zephyr Jackson · May 30, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

8 second cast time? u asking for an interupt? - Asassins already have shadow form....

Undivine · May 30, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

I like the idea. I was just playing my mesmer an hour ago and when I met a warrior I used a slow/blind/dash combo (he's part assassin) to get out of range after I loaded that sucker with -10 health degen and deep wound. Ah... I love the mesmer.

In any case, when you're going with illusion magic, you're pretty much anti-warrior, which means a skill like this would fit in perfectly not only in the roleplaying sense (invisibility being an illusion) but also in a strategic sense. You piss off the warrior, then get away.

One question though... why 7 energy and 8 energy cost? I mean, it sounds reasonable to me, but for some reason ANet only uses 5, 10, 15, and 25 energy costs. What made you decide to stray from those?

erick5876 · May 30, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

8 second cast time? u asking for an interupt? - Asassins already have shadow form....

Yes. That dictates how the Hide in Shadows skill would be used. An 8 second cast time makes the spell most effective as a buff, or prep rather than an escape. An assassin would use the skill before encountering mobs, and it would enable him to engage quickly (shadow-step in, start combo, etc.), or just avoid them. The spell lasts a long time so that the sin can manuever into a favorable position. It also gives them the ability to run. I meant it to be used before an attack, not during or after. That's what Vanish was for.

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One question though... why 7 energy and 8 energy cost? I mean, it sounds reasonable to me, but for some reason ANet only uses 5, 10, 15, and 25 energy costs. What made you decide to stray from those?

My reasoning for energy cost was to take a sort of middle ground. I felt like 5 wasn't enough, and 10 was too much. I could be wrong though. I don't intend these skills to go in as they are. They need play-testing and tweaking, but I think they could be worked in quite effectively.

Trylo · May 30, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I'd like to see this in action, it sounds ok now, but maybe a bit overpowered for PVP...

1) 7 energy is nice, but its not gunna get made

2) If they are hit with an AoE attack, they become normal again.

Thats about it, i like it.

erick5876 · May 30, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

2) If they are hit with an AoE attack, they become normal again.

Thats about it, i like it.

Very good suggestion! That might even out the PvP aspect of it. Or, perhaps other skills to combat it:

Monk or Ele: True Sight (enchantment)
Any invisible foes that come within x range are revealed.

Warrior: Revelation Signet
All invisible targets within x range are revealed.

Ranger: Track footprints
Any invisible foe that is within x range to your character is revealed

Also, an AoE that removes status effects could get rid of it.

Trylo · May 30, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by erick5876

Also, an AoE that removes status effects could get rid of it.

ie Well of the Profane... i think thats what it is, but idk about new skills, i think there enough aoe spells to do this...

Necro above^ - SS...
Mes - Energy Surge... Im sure theres another...
Ele - take your pick...
Ranger - Barrage
Warrior - to bad, so sad.
Assassin - ? not sure...
Rit - Clamor of Souls... theres more
Monk - Sig of Judgement... others?

Rikimaru · May 30, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Shadow Form is pretty close to stealth... people can just still see and target you though. Maybe they should just add an effect to Shadow Form that makes you semi-transparent.

Stalker Haras · May 30, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Sound's very WoW'ish.

MisterB · May 30, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

ie Well of the Profane... i think thats what it is, but idk about new skills, i think there enough aoe spells to do this...

Necro above^ - SS...
Mes - Energy Surge... Im sure theres another...
Ele - take your pick...
Ranger - Barrage
Warrior - to bad, so sad.

Assassin - ? not sure...
Rit - Clamor of Souls... theres more
Monk - Sig of Judgement... others?

Warrior has Cyclone Axe, possibly Crude Swing(never used hammers,but this one is easily interrupted, anyway, not wise), or can simply bellow "None Shall Pass!" at the top of his lungs to knock the silly assassin flat on his bum.

On topic, I think Anet has said they wish to avoid this type of stealth dynamic. I believe they had this sort of idea for Rangers before release, but scrapped it because of a lack of balance or proper implementation.

erick5876 · May 30, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Never played WoW. I played FFXI for a lil bit, but I don't remember anything like this in it.

I was actually drawing the ideah more from old-school muds. I used to be a big NightMist player. The thieves on that game had an ability called "covert" wich would make them invisible to other players. It wore off after you moved a certain number of squares (depending on your level), or it the thief player attacked, or another person casted a spell revealing all that was really in the area including traps and other players. This was combined with an ability called "assassinate" which would deal a large amount of dmg in one blow, but use up all stamina. That dmg was increased considerably if the player was covert. It allowed for thieves to kill in 1-2 rounds. So, If you were hit, you either died, ran, or had potions on macro

.

I digress, but thats where I got the ideah from.

Ggraphix · May 30, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

I like that idea, but u must become targetable when close or it would be cheating.

Of course ANET probably won't do it, cause it would make assassin runners unstoppable.

and they would have to reprogram the whole way monsters start their attack

BahamutKaiser · May 31, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

I don't think invisible should make the character untargetable, that alone merits elite type status for a skill without being invisible, and is rather a combination of being invisible and invincible, which is too much.

Invisibility would be very interesting, and a very powerful sneak attack or escape technique, but making it effective yet balanced needs to be considered.

I think invisibility should make your character invisible, and even if you hold the cntl key down you do not see a name for that character, but is still targetable. This would make it difficult to see and target an invisible player because you don't see what to target to. But random clicking on mid air could land a chance to locate the invisible enemy and then attack him.

Invisibles could wear of if you are hit, or if you hit someone, both in some cases, wile only one for perhaps an elite invisible skill.

I could understand an invisible skill which made you untargetable if you as well could not target anyone, including allies. This would make it purely an escape or sneakup technique. Having an Astral swap for Ritualists which allows them to enter the astral plain momentarily would be awsome.

Also, because conditions are negative, and don't allow enemies to remove them, these would have to be a stances or enchantments, which would allow the enemy to knock you out of them in the case that normal damage does not dispel the effect.

An Assassin Stance which makes him invisible for 20 seconds and automaticly cancels if you hit an enemy, or if your knocked out of the stance. A Mesmer enchantment which makes him invisible for a few seconds and cancels if he has the enchantment stripped or if he casts a spell. An Elementist Air Magic Ward which makes all allies inside it invisible. And perhaps a Ritualists spirit which makes all allies in it's effect invisible for 10 or 20 seconds.

There are already alot of damage repeling and stoping skills, being invisible and untargetable by certain or all skills should be nothing less than an elite, just being untargetable or unable to take damage is an elite for many current skills.

And since you can't run through cantha anyways, it doesn't realy matter how well Assassins run, it would just be a good tool to bring them equal with warrior for pro runs through Tyria, and believe me, Assassin needs some serious abilities to make up for his natural lack of defense compared to Warrior.

erick5876 · May 31, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

I think invisibility should make your character invisible, and even if you hold the cntl key down you do not see a name for that character, but is still targetable. This would make it difficult to see and target an invisible player because you don't see what to target to. But random clicking on mid air could land a chance to locate the invisible enemy and then attack him.

Agreed, good point.

Quote:

I could understand an invisible skill which made you untargetable if you as well could not target anyone, including allies. This would make it purely an escape or sneakup technique.

I should not have said untargetable. That really is an invincibility type deal.

But at the same time, besides random clicking, I don't think you should be able to target them (ie: cycling through targets until you get around to them).

Quote:

Having an Astral swap for Ritualists which allows them to enter the astral plain momentarily would be awsome.

That would be tight.

The Ritualist's screen could turn pastel and wavy, kinda like when you're drunk, and disapear from other's screens.

Verlas Ho'Esta · May 31, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I have no problem with invisibility, if the condition had some steep drawbacks.
1: You still count as being in combat, and can't heal naturally.
2: Your speed is reduced by 50%. Don't make it too easy to do runs.
3: No energy regen while invisible, it takes all your concentration
4: if you attack use any other skill/spell while invisible, it drops. No healing, rezzing, nuking, or anything else.

Invisibility is a cool concept, but very powerful and easily abused. It needs to be severely limited.

If those four conditions were imposed on it, then yes, /signed.

Undivine · May 31, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Now that you guys mention it, it is rather powerful. And by the way it isn't WoW-ish. It's EverQuest-ish or Dungeons & Dragons-ish or so many other RPGs-ish. There is life beyond WoW in the gaming world.

I think perhaps an appropriate drawback is that your skills are disable for slightly longer than the effect lasts. That way you can't really get the drop on people; it would be kind of like an extreme version of Mist Form. In addition you are slowed by 25% and it breaks if you attack or get hit with any kind of AOE like traps, Panic (that's the other AOE mesmer spell), etc. In fact, traps are the perfect counter to someone going invisible. If it breaks prematurely your skills are still disabled. On top of all this we can make a 10% or 15% chance for it to break early for every second you walk

Now if we just give it a huge recast time, like 90 seconds perhaps, it may even be non-elite status. After all, with this many drawbacks it's getting unusable, or at least extremely risky.

So imagine you are fighting an assassin and he goes invisible. His invisibility is guarenteed to last the if he stays still and doesn't move. So you lay traps or use one of those caster-centric AOE spells to either reveal him or get him to move. Nothing happens. He's moving. You keep watching for him and it eventually breaks prematurely. Now you wail on him and he's defenseless.

Shadow Form right now is just not worth using except to run away... but then we can just follow you.

draxynnic · May 31, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Possibly have the stealthed character targettable by the C key if they're closest, but not otherwise?

Essentially, this is saying you need a distraction to go stealth - if the enemy is alert and has nothing better to do than look for sneaking assassins, they're probably going to see you, but if enemy is busy fighting henchmen or other party members, you can get away with it until you're in position if you're careful (and even distracted opponents will still be keeping an eye on their immediate area unless that Warrior in their face is taking up all their attention).

erick5876 · May 31, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

i agree that it may be a little powerful in the form I suggested, but if it is over-limited, it will become completely useless.

Quote:

1: You still count as being in combat, and can't heal naturally.
2: Your speed is reduced by 50%. Don't make it too easy to do runs.
3: No energy regen while invisible, it takes all your concentration
4: if you attack use any other skill/spell while invisible, it drops. No healing, rezzing, nuking, or anything else.

1. do you mean no health regen? If so, then agreed. But I think any AOE spells, or if the player is somehow target, spells should have an effect on them.

2. Adding speed on the long-lasting skill was probably a bad ideah. It would make running way too easy. But if you take away the speed, it would completely destroy the skill's functionality. So, how about normal running speed for the long-lasting one? For Vanish, I think it should be really short (like Dash), and should give you a speed boost. Maybe be an elite version of Dash?

3. I disagree. If it takes a lot of energy to cast, and it never regens, then when you get to your target, you can't do anything to them. Maybe limit the regen by -1 or -2?

4. Been saying that all along.

Quote:

Now if we just give it a huge recast time, like 90 seconds perhaps, it may even be non-elite status.

A higher recast time would probably be a good call.

Well, I'm stil deffinately in favor of adding this in to the game.

/signed