Curse

Rikimaru · Jun 05, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

First, I'm going to say this would probably be a somewhat difficult thing to change, for how small of an effect this would have. (Because of animations.)

My idea is to have the dagger attacks in the Critical Strikes line only require a melee weapon, instead of just daggers. A Lot of people would like to be able to use something like a sword or hammer with an assassin, but it's nearly impossible to make even a mediocre assassin build that uses one. I've been working on one for a few days that uses a sword, and I'm getting really close to actaully having a viable assassin-swordsman build, but it's also turning into a build that doesn't even really need a melee weapon.
If we had the choice of using the Critical Strike attacks with any melee weapon, then builds that use anything other than daggers would actually work.

I've looked it over, and there's no way this is overpowering.
And yeah, some of you might say there's other stuff to do first. But please don't use that to disagree, my suggestion is that they do this sometime/at all, not immediately.

Trylo · Jun 06, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

i guess that would work, but i would hope the dual attacks are kept to the assassin, like twisting fangs (i think thats crit hits). just clarifying, otherways i agree.

Rikimaru · Jun 06, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Well, they only have one or two non-dual attack attacks in there. Hopefully you don't like the idea of those working for any weapon because of the idea of attacking with two weapons at once. But when you use those you strike the target twice, so I don't think there'd be anything wrong with making the dual-attacks cause you to swing twice; it'd still technically bea dual attack. Either way though, even just being able to use those lead attacks would help out greatly.

Rikimaru · Jun 06, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Does anyone have an oppinion on this? Agree/Disagree? One post seems kind of odd.

Terra Xin · Jun 06, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Concept-wise, the definitions of skills that would otherwise suit the assassin would seem mismatched when you put them up with a hammer or a sword (I mean you can use sharpen daggers with a hammer, which is weird...) And you also have to keep in mind that any of the attack skills of the warrior that don't fit in with hammer, sword or axe, are kinda supplementary over damage.

As for my opinion, I don't think I have enough guts to my post to effectively disagree with you, but I don't like the idea.

MrBadExample · Jun 06, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I'd agree in concept to your idea Riki, but to me if would feel over blanced could you imagine the impact of giving hammer wielders "Unsuspecting Strike" That would give some an insaine amount of lead damage in 1 blow.

fallot · Jun 06, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

I've looked it over, and there's no way this is overpowering.

Look over it again ? While the idea isn't bad in principle (i.e if there were actually enough attack skills in that line), Twisting Fangs and Critical Strike with a Hammer is a little strong don't you think ?

mqstout · Jun 06, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Axe Mastery, Sword Mastery, Hammer Mastery and Marksmanship already increase the critical hit chance for their respective weapons. Combining it with Critical Strikes would be going a little too far.

Rikimaru · Jun 06, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Axe Mastery, Sword Mastery, Hammer Mastery and Marksmanship already increase the critical hit chance for their respective weapons. Combining it with Critical Strikes would be going a little too far.

We can already use the Critical Strikes attribute with those weapons, this isn't about that (and it is far from overpowering).

Also, using a hammer with those skills wouldn't be overpowering either. No matter what weapon you use, it has the same +to damage, and hammers do do more innate damage, but they are also slower. It's simply looking at the regular dps without any of those skills, and adding in the occasional +damage from an assassin skill. Even the spike damage wouldn't be greater, because the swings themselves are slower, both reducing the speed it takes for the skill to connect, and the gap between that and the next skill. Now, using a double strike skill with one actually would do more damage, but you have to pull of an offhand and maybe lead before you can do that, and the chain will finish more slowly than normal, so you can't technically pull off dual attacks as often.

NatalieD · Jun 06, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

Now, using a double strike skill with one actually would do more damage, but you have to pull of an offhand and maybe lead before you can do that, and the chain will finish more slowly than normal, so you can't technically pull off dual attacks as often.

The limitation on dual attacks is their recharge time and energy cost, not the time it takes to go from lead to offhand to dual when they're already charged.

I wouldn't mind if they had made some generic melee attacks in Critical Strikes like Strength has, but dual attacks with non-dagger weapons... I don't think so.

Rikimaru · Jun 06, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I'd be completely fine with just being able to use the lead attacks. I've finally figured out a good swordsman build anyway: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3051272
I Doubt there are many other (if any) assassin-swordsman builds that are viable though...

BahamutKaiser · Jun 07, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

I would say exsisting dagger skills should stay dagger skills, the damage modifications are high on dagger skills to help them overcome the otherwise weaker normal strikes. I agree with NatalieD that they should make a few generic attacks simular to Warriors Strength skills, which could be used with any weapon.

And yeah, the Critical Strike attribute already powers up your physical attacks with any weapon, just like Strength, and you can even use sharpen daggers with another weapon, it is an enchantment which adds bleeding to any enemy which you critical on, no dagger requirement.

I think if they added a few "any weapon" or "any melee weapon" attacks to critical strikes it would provide this interest well enough, and they could also stand to add a few more energy cost Sword skills too.

I am more interested in Assassin/Ranger with a bow though, You can get more critical then Ranger for more damage then they even do, and you can get energy back for crits instead of reduced cost from expertise, making you almost better than Ranger with his own weapon, on top of the fact that Assassins armor is almost as weak as ranger, it would be a defensive advantage to stay back and shoot arrows.