Curse

samtheslayer · Jun 06, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

instead of having people set up an unofficial "ferry" system, and have the right to deny people (which i believe is completely fair, dont get me wrong, they earned it with the faction), in order to calm down the complainers, this is my proposed idea

they introduce another npc in hzh and cavalon, in which the alliance leader's officers can set a price ranging from 1 gold to a maximum of 5k in which one person can pay to get into the elite mission, the money in turn goes into a guild coffer, and when the guild loses control of the city, the money is split between the guilds in the alliance and deposited in the guild storage*

(* soon to come hopefully ;-\)

samtheslayer · Jun 06, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

no thoughts or anything? is it really that bad of an idea?

BrotherGilburt · Jun 06, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Elite missions are supposed to be earned from skillful play. I think they should set up a system that allows skillful players to go to it rather than just faction grinders. This idea just allows the faction grinding alliances to keep it. They can still allow guilds to control cities but they should nerf their control of elite missions. Have elite missions totally separated from the control of cavalon and House Zu Heltzer. Have some Differant way to get to them that actually rewards skillful players. Like a smaller missions or a PvP battle. If you had to do those to enter an elite mission then I think they would actually be rewarding skillful players.

/notsigned
I don't think it should be under control of a guild in the first place, let alone haveing the guild charge gold.

Brother Gilburt

Lurid · Jun 06, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

How would something that shows "skill" be instituted? I mean in way in which you could actually judge their skill, almost always people will figure out ways to do break through these obstacles with simple tactics. I am doubtful that it will ever work out in this way.

As it stands, I see no problem with the current system. Anyone who is whining about not getting into the elite missions needs to pipe down. You didn't farm the hours of faction it took to control the city, and as such you don't deserve a say in what goes on. Thats like me msging your guild leader and telling him what to do, and expecting something to happen.

If you want into the elites that bad, then join one of the main guilds or their alliances. Most have a simple introduction process, which just consist of each member farming a small amount of faction per day. Which isn't much if you really want the missions.

EternalTempest · Jun 06, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Anet has stated they are going to give alternate access to the elite mission (yet to be determined).

What I would do is have a difficult mission after paying 1k to get access to the area to do the elite mission. That way you would have to pay money, and have some skill in order to get there.

Evilsod · Jun 06, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I love reading responses like Lurids. They make me remember how truly sad some people are. Your right, we didn't farm the hours of faction it took to control the cities. Incase you didn't realise, you haven't earned the right to get into an elite mission either. Please, leave your alliance, start up your own. If you can succesfully earn, how much is it? 2million faction? (i have no idea) and get access to the elite mission alone, then i will remove my arguments about this. Its funny though how the majority of people in these alliances see no problems.
Remember the Favour of the Gods? You know, the thing to allow entrance to FoW/UW? The last i heard half of the players on the UW server were constantly bitching about it been unfair because they never had it. Just like before that Europe did the same when they never had it. Those things have changed, last time i checked the favour actually changed hands. It seems that only 2 alliances will ever get chance to enter this mission, each becoming stronger and stronger as people who 'leave there guilds/alliances to join the big ones' do so.

As for an unnofficial ferry... the guild leaders would just set it at 5k a trip, you know they will. The max it should ever be is 1k on par with FoW/UW. If these elite missions are truly reserved for the elite only, then surely anyone who isn't in this so called 'elite alliance' should fail the moment they appear having no chance to get any of the precious greens.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 06, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Hmm okay let's see, one we shouldn't give whiners "exactly" what they want, they need to learn somehow they don't get what they want by whining, BUT I understand the thing with the deep/ urgoz's warren. I am fine if they open it up to more people BUT they then need to do something to cavalon/HzH in order to make it nicer to control them again, more than just "cheaper" prices, screw that, they need to make it nice again to hold the major cities other than elite missions if they want to give crybabies what they want. Considering I am in one of the "big boy" alliances I know that alot of people will flame me for this but those with insight will see that I am not completely biased in this, give the people the elite missions, but make it worth something to hold cav/HzH, and please, if you want something to change, WORK for it, don't just whine.

B Ephekt · Jun 06, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

We don't need a "fix" for the elite missions; there are no real problems with them...

If you have a conceptual problem with elite missions being, well, elite, then I think that's your own issue.

Lurid · Jun 06, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Anet has stated they are going to give alternate access to the elite mission (yet to be determined).

What I would do is have a difficult mission after paying 1k to get access to the area to do the elite mission. That way you would have to pay money, and have some skill in order to get there.

Something along those lines is probably what will be instated. Though i'm curious how this leaves those players who actually earned the right to enter these missions. Sounds to me as though we're screwing them out of their play time, what happens if they stand up and bitch like you all are?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I love reading responses like Lurids. They make me remember how truly sad some people are. Your right, we didn't farm the hours of faction it took to control the cities. Incase you didn't realise, you haven't earned the right to get into an elite mission either.

Considering the fact that you don't have a clue who I am, who are you to say that I haven't earned the right to do so through my faction farming? I have not, though you have no clue whether or not I have, I suggest you leave such irrelevant points to yourself. Irrelevant as in you don't have any idea what i've done, at all.

Quote:

Please, leave your alliance, start up your own. If you can succesfully earn, how much is it? 2million faction? (i have no idea) and get access to the elite mission alone, then i will remove my arguments about this. Its funny though how the majority of people in these alliances see no problems.

You ask me to start my own alliance, which would imply that I would be with various other guilds. Thus, I would not be alone, and as such your point is moot, as its impossible for me to do this. Though most of the reining alliances require an amount of faction around, 500k to join them. Which coming from a relatively large guild is not that much to ask for, at all.

Quote:

Remember the Favour of the Gods? You know, the thing to allow entrance to FoW/UW? The last i heard half of the players on the UW server were constantly bitching about it been unfair because they never had it. Just like before that Europe did the same when they never had it. Those things have changed, last time i checked the favour actually changed hands. It seems that only 2 alliances will ever get chance to enter this mission, each becoming stronger and stronger as people who 'leave there guilds/alliances to join the big ones' do so.

I don't really see how this is an applicable point coming from someone who is defending this. Your saying that they whine because they didn't get favor as much as they wanted. Though this is not about your point at all, these people are whining that they can't get into an "Elite" mission, hence the title. Its not supposed to be easy to get into, otherwise it would be called a "hey pay money and whine like a little child and you get in" mission. Which is what your asking it to be.

Quote:

As for an unnofficial ferry... the guild leaders would just set it at 5k a trip, you know they will. The max it should ever be is 1k on par with FoW/UW. If these elite missions are truly reserved for the elite only, then surely anyone who isn't in this so called 'elite alliance' should fail the moment they appear having no chance to get any of the precious greens.

Why not? Whats the point of controlling a town and farming all that faction if you get nothing for it? Sounds to me like your trying to have your cake and eat it to, you don't want to farm for faction 24 / 7? Fine, then don't bitch when you don't get your way about the rewards.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Jun 06, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

Why not? Whats the point of controlling a town and farming all that faction if you get nothing for it? Sounds to me like your trying to have your cake and eat it to, you don't want to farm for faction 24 / 7? Fine, then don't bitch when you don't get your way about the rewards.

Feel free to continue flaming me with your whining, its almost fun to point out how stupid some of these arguments are. Until of course the mods close this, and somehow i'm the one to blame, i'm sure

the sheer fame of controlling that town should be reward enough. The exclusive access to a little extra zone within the town you controll, the cheaper prices at these merchants and the option to see fireworks are in my view reward enough.

But access to a zone that could be considered as real 'content' should never have been dependent on a farmingactivity in a game that poses itself as the pineacle of skill over time.

Lurid · Jun 06, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

the sheer fame of controlling that town should be reward enough. The exclusive access to a little extra zone within the town you controll, the cheaper prices at these merchants and the option to see fireworks are in my view reward enough.

But access to a zone that could be considered as real 'content' should never have been dependent on a farmingactivity in a game that poses itself as the pineacle of skill over time.

See? I have no problems with someone who actually makes a point, kudos to you sir / madam. That makes actual sense, instead of "zomg we want it the way we want it, /rage, gimme gimme gimme" I do agree with you. If the game is truly "skill over time" then this should have never been instituted (sp?) in the first place. If this was truly the case then an alliance should have never been able to control the town at all. As one might complain that it shows favor for those who want to grind all that time. Which in some aspects it does.

If we keep the missions its going against a main selling point of the game. Though dumbing down the missions to suit the people who don't want to farm is not the way to do so. Especially since it appears as though these people will never be satisfied. Changing them defeats the point of having them at all, just get rid of them if you are going to change them.

BrotherGilburt · Jun 07, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Personally I think you shoyuld earn an elite mission without grinding all day. This isn't rewarding skillful players. Its rewarding alliances with people that grind 24/7. Not everyone can do that. I very experianced player that can only be on a a few hours a week can't be rewarded with the elite missions because he can't grind faction.... But those people that can get on 7 hours a day to grind faction are allowed in those top faction grind alliances that control HzH and cavalon. Also only rewarding 10 guilds(1 alliance) with this elite mission is not fair to everyone else as that limits it to a few people... Why not make the elite missions like dragons layer and have people earn there way into from a series of challengeing PvP battles? Or have a challenging mission to do to earn your way into it? This would reward skillful players and not just those people that grind faction all day....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid
Why not? Whats the point of controlling a town and farming all that faction if you get nothing for it? Sounds to me like your trying to have your cake and eat it to, you don't want to farm for faction 24 / 7? Fine, then don't bitch when you don't get your way about the rewards.

Feel free to continue flaming me with your whining, its almost fun to point out how stupid some of these arguments are. Until of course the mods close this, and somehow i'm the one to blame, i'm sure

The point of controling an city is for the fame of your guild/alliance.... The point of controling cavalon and HzH is for the fame and the elite mission....

Brother Gilburt

Stockholm · Jun 07, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt

Why not make the elite missions like dragons layer and have people earn there way into from a series of challengeing PvP battles? Brother Gilburt

Don't even go there, no more PvE dependency on PvP.

Yes make it as a reward to get in to "elite missions" but keep PvP out of the equation, as seen in a lot of resent threads a lot of ppl do not have any intresst in PvP, and if you try to force ppl to do something they don't like you get AFK like Jade Query and Fort Aspenwood.

BrotherGilburt · Jun 07, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Don't even go there, no more PvE dependency on PvP.

Yes make it as a reward to get in to "elite missions" but keep PvP out of the equation, as seen in a lot of resent threads a lot of ppl do not have any intresst in PvP, and if you try to force ppl to do something they don't like you get AFK like Jade Query and Fort Aspenwood.

thats why i said or

. Yes earnign your way into elite missions via a PvE mission or something similar that you can't afk would be best.

Brother Gilburt

Lurid · Jun 07, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt

The point of controling an city is for the fame of your guild/alliance.... The point of controling cavalon and HzH is for the fame and the elite mission....

Brother Gilburt

The fame is, trivial at best. I can't imagine anyone wanting to farm for that amount of time simply so that their guild name can be displayed, which means next to nothing to...almost everyone.

Oh yeah, thats kinda what we were talking about, you know that the elite missions are rewards, for a guild / alliance that worked for the amount of time necessary to control the town. Meaning that the people who did all the work to achieve this should erm..gee I don't know...allow who they want in. Thats how it was designed, does that mean it was a good idea? Thats opinion, the fact still remains that the controlling alliance decides, so stop complaining.

We don't need a toll booth, or some other bull. The system is fine the way it is, yes it limits the number of people who can get in. Though if you change it then controlling a town is next to meaningless, and have none of you ever heard of this moto? "Anything worth having is worth working for" if you want the elites so much, then either:

A) Make friends with someone in the alliance
B) Join the alliances

Stockholm · Jun 07, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I posted this idea in a diffrent thred before.

Reset the amount of faction needed to control a town or outpost once a week.
XXX K (set amount) amount of faction gives an alliance controll of an outpost or town, then when all outpost's and towns are ownd the controlling alliances fight in alliance battles for controll of the capitol, winning alliance gets to own the capitol for 1 week and get the income(pay X amount of faction for acces) from acces to elit missions.
alliances get something for there work and everyone can go to the missions.

Just an idea that needs more work, but would make alliance battles mean something, and would make owning a capitol worth something. Say they get XXX faction for everyone entering the mission witch means they get 1 week whithout farming factions and will still be able to defend there ownership in the next "Capitol battle".

And the PvE part of an alliance can do there part and the PvP part gets to do there part, would give both sides more to do.

Lurid · Jun 07, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Not a bad idea, though I don't see why Anet would want to change the way things are now. This was designed for a reason, that reason is to be difficult to get into. Changing it defeats the purpose of having it, so you might aswell do away with Elite missions as a whole. Which would work in your idea.

Watch, if something like that is instituted these people will be complaining still. "ZOMG THEY ARE TEH REWARDIN FARMERS!?!?!?!" /bitchwhinecomplain

BrotherGilburt · Jun 07, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

The fame is, trivial at best. I can't imagine anyone wanting to farm for that amount of time simply so that their guild name can be displayed, which means next to nothing to...almost everyone.

..... If it means nothing then why do alliances fight for control over cities other than cavalon and HzH????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

A) Make friends with someone in the alliance

Sure I'm sure that everyone would do this. Alliances don't control cities for long. You'd end up haveing to make alot of friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

B) Join the alliances

Useless, alliances don't keep control for more than a few days usually before someone else is able to steal it. Also those allainces only take people who grind 10k faction or more a week. Not all of us like grinding lurid...

Elite missions and control of cities are supposed to award skillful players in the first place... Grinders aren't always skillful. They can just get on GW way to much... Elite missions are not fine the way they are...

Brother Gilburt

Stockholm · Jun 07, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I see your point. But as it is now they are rewarding farmers with exclusive rights to elit missions ( we do thank the alliances that ferry) this would not change that ( just how much an alliance have to farm), it would stop the need for ferrying and make the alliance battles a weekly thing to watch + plus it's a money sink, use factions to get in to elite missions then they have to buy amber and jade for armour.

Just an idea for alternate access to "elite" missions

Evilsod · Jun 07, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Considering the fact that you don't have a clue who I am, who are you to say that I haven't earned the right to do so through my faction farming? I have not, though you have no clue whether or not I have, I suggest you leave such irrelevant points to yourself. Irrelevant as in you don't have any idea what i've done, at all.

Lol do you think it matters who you are? Your an elitest arsehole who thinks grinding makes you elite. There is no elite method of gaining Faction. You can get Faction by simply going AFK in missions. Dont try and say that just because you don't do that it somehow makes your faction elite.

Quote:

You ask me to start my own alliance, which would imply that I would be with various other guilds. Thus, I would not be alone, and as such your point is moot, as its impossible for me to do this. Though most of the reining alliances require an amount of faction around, 500k to join them. Which coming from a relatively large guild is not that much to ask for, at all.

Zomg... i forgot that alliances are more than 1 person. Ok, how about make an alliance or the minimum number and get it yourself? Come on, i'd like to see you farm that much Faction on your own and prove to me its not impossible. Proving (that you have no life...) that anyone can do it.

Quote:

I don't really see how this is an applicable point coming from someone who is defending this. Your saying that they whine because they didn't get favor as much as they wanted. Though this is not about your point at all, these people are whining that they can't get into an "Elite" mission, hence the title. Its not supposed to be easy to get into, otherwise it would be called a "hey pay money and whine like a little child and you get in" mission. Which is what your asking it to be.

Its quite applicable. People whined because they couldn't get the favour. People whine because they can't get into elite missions. Why are people whining? Because the favour is related to PvP, many people hate that it affects PvE. What about the elite missions? It requires no skill at all, it requires you to be in a big alliance.

Quote:

Why not? Whats the point of controlling a town and farming all that faction if you get nothing for it? Sounds to me like your trying to have your cake and eat it to, you don't want to farm for faction 24 / 7? Fine, then don't bitch when you don't get your way about the rewards.

There was me thinking you got discount at merchants and things... Sounds fair to me, jack shit to do once you complete the normal missions (what if i don't like Alliance Battles or Fort Aspenwood?) all because like 1000s of people who play this game, they have lives. If your sad enough to farm Faction 24/7, be my guest, just stop trying to prove its anything you deserve a reward for.

Perhaps my interpretation of the word 'difficult' is different to you and Anet. Mine means hard, but possible. Yours and Anets means impossible. People don't want to be in 1 huge alliance where they must farm faction at least once a week to get access to 'elite' missions. If you pay for the content, i wanna know why we don't get it?

Please, leave your alliance. I would like to see if you can bullshit your way into every single controlling alliances friend list just to get access. Most people would call this using people. But you call it 'making friends'.