Curse

floppinghog · Jun 04, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

as much as i'd like a type of buff for ele's (more so for ele primaries - screw other classes in that respect - they are fine)

its being a elementalist primary thats the issue, and even so, this mod is overpowered - as well as useable by other classes which i dont agree with either.

/notsigned

there needs to be a better advantage of being a ele primary - besides more energy to only lose to exhaustion and pay for the over priced spells... its true you cant deny it..

even with energy management on an ele' your still hindered some what useless in the respects of - down time - have to wait for energy AND exhaustion and spells that do alot are STILL limited by recharge - why does it hinder you with exhaustion of one spell - and that spell is disabled for a min. well thats lame cause now your doing nothing for a min.
you should be able to spam exhausting spells all you want - you have to manage the exhaustion - that way they become the TRUE - Nuker of elements as originally intended - blow all your energy make a difference - than have a type of meditation skill to regain it all within a set time depending on something. so they can compete with warriors and their DPS.

theres your answer.

Evilsod · Jun 04, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien ak

Warrior: 10% double arderline on hit
Ranger: Daze lasts 10% longer
Monk: Enchants last longer or speed casting which is 10% and 20% on a specific (sorry don't know the percentage of enchant)
Necromancer: Hexes last 10% longer and Speed casting mods
Mesmer: Same as above
Assasin:Conditions last 10% longer
Ritualist:Spirts last 10% longer and speed casting mods.

Now you could buff em up to 20% par the speed casting ones...but as I said you can't leave one class out this a 'blanced' game so all need to beneift.

Warrior have plenty of mods already
Ranger has plenty of mods already
Enchantments is more variable than monk.. besides they have Blessed Aura for that sorta stuff
Necro would just become extremely powerful with certain long lasting hexes, plus you gotta remember that these can't be class specific so mesmers could still use em. Same goes for Assassin hexes.
They already have increase duration for individual conditions, increasing the lot wouldn't make much difference.
Ritualists you'd have to make it happen for Ranger spirits too.

You couldn't really increase duration of offensive things beyond single things or attributes.
Its why i didn't suggest 'increase hex duration 20%' for example on customised necro items. The only problem with using increase damage of spells 20%, although its a good idea (if i say so myself

) is that people would whine about it making specific items too overpowered and just not affecting others. Spiteful Spirit with 20% extra damage would do about 41 each action, not much at first but multiple it by 8 actions and it begins to hurt. Where as Conjure Phantasm gets absolutely no bonus from this what-so-ever.

It would be a good method of boosting the damage of Eles and Necros to actually make them potential damage dealers instead of just Warriors, but all the degen skills for mesmers wouldn't be affected, and some would say Backfire would become too potent doing about 180 each cast.

Even giving casters a bonus in energy would be useless, +5 or 10 max energy on customised items would be useless in PvP where typically you never have full energy anyway. Decrease in cast times would just make things too hard to interrupt, obviously that'd be the point, but we're not all AI mesmers. As Fast Casting would be useless if you got the same effect from mods, just like Expertise would be less effective if basically all classes had 20% reduction. Same goes for Strength if you added Armour Penetration to spells that way.

Decreasing recharge times is a possiblity though. wouldn't invade any primary attributes either.

Evilsod · Jun 04, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

If exhaustion is crippling you to the point in which you feel a new staff mod needs to be introduced then you should probably look into some basic energy management techniques...

Furthermore the concept behind the adverse effect of using powerful skills like Meteor Shower and Obsidian Flame is intended to stack up (and thus get worse) the more you do it to keep you from spamming it like Flare. Throwing a mod in there that would trump this 10 or 20% of the time would kill the entire idea behind exhaustion and could possibly put a dent in the balance of the classes imho.

If you've read any threads recently regarding eles and damage, you'll already know that Elementalists are absolutely useless at dealing damage in PvP scenarios. The point of the exhaustion on Obsidian Flame is to stop it been spammed insanely and to explain its low recharge/cost. Meteor Shower... well you'd just expect it to, but it still sucks in PvP at 5 cast time. Elemtalists are just crap damage dealers, exhaustion is EXACTLY the reason that nobody uses them for that purpose, the longer the battle goes on, the more useless an ele becomes. All skipping out on the odd bit of exhaustion will do is prolong your uselessness a bit longer.

prism2525 · Jun 05, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

First, just in case someone misunderstood what I said, the mod gives a 20% chance of avoiding exhaustion. Also, I know that exhaustion is there for a reason and that is why I didn't just put a mod saying 'Halves Exhaustion' or something of that sort. I mean, out of 5 exhausting spells u get 1 without. The exhaustion from the other spells is still there and you'll just have to wait for it to go. Is 1/5 so godly powerful a boost? I think not.

Second, the +20% to hexes, be it duration or damage, is WAAAAAY overpowered. Either way SS would be even more deadly that it is now, diversion, backfire, etc. This mod is indeed usable by anyone but unless they have exhaustion-causing spells, they are being truly gits and wasting the mod and the cash if they bought it.

Thrid, all this talk on the silencing, furious and so on... the furious affects directly dps so that's why it's only at 10%, silencing is constant, monks with longer enchants... (was it a joke?), assasins and ritualists aren't my field as I still don't have Factions although unless I'm wrong the spirits of the ritualist 'kill' themselves when called to action so they die far earlier than their time limit. This mod works by chance, a 1 out of 5 chance isn't unreasonable imo, and it won't benefit the ele THAT much to make all players want one.

floppinghog · Jun 05, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

if it doesnt benefit that much as you said, why bother?.. i dont mean to be that literal about it.. but still. its too much of a mess just to try to work with what we know it as, there can be change - we just have to want it enough to have it happen.

prism2525 · Jun 05, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

What I meant was to give eles some more air to breathe in. It's true that they will still have tons of exhaustion but it helps to ease their life a bit.

On another note, this is ONE mod, with it I mean there isn't a Staff head for no exhaustion, just the wrapping. So NO ele is ever going to have a 40% chance to avoid it.

Imp · Jun 05, 2006, 10:53 AM // 10:53

if you are casting a ton of exhaustion spells you are probobly doing too much damage anyways.

/notsigned

jummeth · Jun 05, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

exahaustion aspect is pretty balanced, all the spells that cause exhaustion are pretty powerful, and should be used sparingly.

Shock warriors only use one spell that causes exhaustion, if there was a weapon mod... xD I'd be so happy. Extra shocks for me ^^

Evilsod · Jun 05, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

if you are casting a ton of exhaustion spells you are probobly doing too much damage anyways.

/notsigned

Yeah.... you check those exhaustion skills again. Mind Shock/Freeze/Burn are all good, then they just become useless after 5 minutes of fighting since you never have enough energy. Lightning Surge? Yeah right, without using it along with Lightning Orb that skill is an absolute joke, it doesn't even have Armour Penetration for christ sake. Chain Lightning and Meteor Shower are obviously powerful, but Meteor? Anet had 2 choices here, increase its energy cost, or just throw an exhaustion cost onto it. Half the exhaustion spells suck.

Imp · Jun 06, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Half the exhaustion spells suck.

then.. don't use them?

prism2525 · Jun 09, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

If Exhaustion spells suck it's because of the heavy exhaustion. making it possible to avoid that once in a while might make them more playable.

frojack · Jun 09, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

then.. don't use them?

Well that's intelligent. Hey! All you Ele's out there. Delete your characters because their spells are too useless to use. Let's not bother try and fix the situation. That would be a crazy idea... _-_

Regarding your mod. Sounds good. I like the idea of this working on only the exhaustion spells. I use Obsidian Flame 5 times. 1 of those instances it doesn't cripple me. To those who think this is over powered.

5 exhaustion spells used over a short period is -50 energy. You get it? I'll type it again. -50 energy.
No decent elementalist in their right mind would change their conservative casting of these debilitating spells because of a 20% chance. It just helps a bit. Quite similar to how most warriors still prefer -2 always (or -2/-2) shields to the 20%-5 variant. The former is dependable.
Another point. I'd suggest making this a staff head instead. No way I'd use this instead of a 20% longer enchantment mod. I would however, consider losing 5 energy, 5 armour or 30hp for it.

On another point. Is it really fair that melee classes can keep me suffering from a condition for 33% longer than normal? The dps implications are huge. I would guess it is, since no one bitches about it. Why oh why then is this considered over-powered? I can already escape exhaustion every 15 seconds and reduce my energy cost's by 20 using Glyph of Energy. Is this over-powered to? Have any of you even noticed the difference between users of this skill and those who do not?

Elementalist primaries really just need a way to combat exhaustion naturally. Besides, a class that requires a 'condition' that cannot be removed for balance issues, essentially being a patch-up, is such bad design. At least as it stands currently.
Maybe Eviscerate should cause adrenal exhaustion also (as in you get less than 1 strike per hit). Then people might actually understand how annoying this really is. Exhaustion is not trivial. Tell your friends.

Slainster · Jun 09, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

/signed... would make for some interesting build options