Curse

Bane of Worlds · Jun 09, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

Unbalance the game - what a bunch of crap!!!

Then the new Canthan armours with the Health bonuses has severely unbalanced the game. We're talking +10 HP difference to the Superior Rune of Vigor. The new armour has +35 Health bonus!

Balance argument has absolutely no ground to stand on!!!!

you haven't realized it have you?
you sacrificed other bonuses for extra health like how you could get that fort mod or a sundering mod
see?

Tarun · Jun 09, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

Unbalance the game - what a bunch of crap!!!

Then the new Canthan armours with the Health bonuses has severely unbalanced the game. We're talking +10 HP difference to the Superior Rune of Vigor. The new armour has +35 Health bonus!

Balance argument has absolutely no ground to stand on!!!!

I agree. It seems many people use that as an excuse for things they do not personally like. The new Cantha armors with health bonuses aren't that wonderful either. +5 in gloves, etc.

Dougal Kronik · Jun 09, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve The Sorceress

you haven't realized it have you?
you sacrificed other bonuses for extra health like how you could get that fort mod or a sundering mod
see?

So I replace my Ranger's Senty's Leggings and loose the +10AL (while in a Stance) and wear Explorer's Leggings for +10 Health bonus - I think I have realized it.

Still don't see where +10 Health on a Superior Rune of Vigor would be unbalanced.

Care to explain it - with some examples of exactly what you are talking about.

Bane of Worlds · Jun 09, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

So I replace my Ranger's Senty's Leggings and loose the +10AL (while in a Stance) and wear Explorer's Leggings for +10 Health bonus - I think I have realized it.

Still don't see where +10 Health on a Superior Rune of Vigor would be unbalanced.

Care to explain it - with some examples of exactly what you are talking about.

from a programmer's PoV
it takes some amount of time to alter it to have +60 health and that +10 health is only minor and unimportant because you have other ways to get more health and that time to change +50 to +60 is better spent elsewhere
see how long it's taking Anet to give everyone that armor update?
that update of changing existing armors to reflect the change of stats from armor crafters is needed more and a must for those who spent cash on dragon armor which may sit at 85AL for a while the new dragon armor are at 90AL

EternalTempest · Jun 09, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

/not signed

It would drive the price up and I do feel that things are well balanced now.

Arkantos · Jun 09, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Sup abs was -1 more dmg then major abs. did it make a huge difference? no. But the difference in price was just wow. And sword pommel of fort, there used to be a big difference between +29 and +30hp. 1 extra hp and it was a massive difference.

/notsigned

Loviatar · Jun 09, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

I agree that it should be higher. 9 points extra health is pathetic really. It's superior, so it should be able to offset one superior rune. So make superior vigor give +75 health, so people can actually use a -75 superior and not worry too much. That's real balance.

/signed

no.

thats real bs

you want to give a +3 attribute point boost for free.

balance is adding here and removing there.

not worry at all is what you actually mean

Dahl · Jun 09, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

/not signed

first of all most of you who signed probably only signed because you can't afford one due to being poor.

second of all, you're saying that since a +20 sword pommel of fortitude is worth maybe 100g, a +30 sword pommel of fortitude should be 1-2k? I mean come on, it's ONLY 10 health, right?

Yes, 9 health is a small amount, but it STACKS! Same with runes, you think 1 point is going to change the face of the match? no. But it STACKS!

Undivine · Jun 09, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

you want to give a +3 attribute point boost for free.

balance is adding here and removing there.

not worry at all is what you actually mean

Well actually, you are essentially using up 2 armor slots to gain that +3 unhindered. Though I don't think ANet would make it +75. Maybe +60.

Bane of Worlds · Jun 09, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

well from the logic of say have a sup rune negate the penalty another sup rune then you have yourself a problem
from this logic one must think that a revision on the maj vig is also needed which is a bad idea
one, you have to change the +41 from maj vig to +35 to match the concept behind that it should negate the penalty
two, you would only drive up the price to the point where it would cost close to 100k which means the argument of how the price of items isn't fair invalid
so you would still complain about it

Ristaron · Jun 09, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I am in favour of the sup. vigor being increased healthwise.
Major AND Superiod vigor runes should be increased.
30/40/50 is nowhere near enough unless all you're using is minor runes.
Most of my pvp builds use more than one major runes... more often a major and a superior. The combined -125 health is nowhere near compensated with my puny +50 hp sup vigor rune.
Even my PvE chars... I wouldn't pay double the price for a superior rune when the major is only slightly less efficient. I got one in a drop the other day and immediately sold it for two reasons:
1. I could buy a major for a fraction of the cost a superior used to rack in.
2. The price was going down fast, I'm lucky I caught the market in the high 30k's. What are they now... 9k?

/signed for increasing major and superior (50 and 75 respectively so as to offset the penalty of the other runes).

Ensign · Jun 09, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Superior Vigor doesn't compensate for anything, you're going to use it whether you'd be using a major/superior attribute rune or not. There's nothing magic about 480 HP.

Increasing the health granted by a superior vigor rune would simply be a global health bonus to all characters.

If you're using too many superior and major runes, and your health is dangerously low because of it - use less major and superior runes. Is it really that hard?

Peace,
-CxE

Loviatar · Jun 09, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Well actually, you are essentially using up 2 armor slots to gain that +3 unhindered. Though I don't think ANet would make it +75. Maybe +60.

i thought when you applied the rune to the armor it didnt take up any more space.

i was refering to the vigor at 75 canceling out the penalty for using a superior rune completely.

you would have +3 attribute without any health penalty

i dont see how it could take up 2 slots

you will use a vigor rune and the other one i am assuming whatever the health costs is.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Jun 10, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

/signed

and i can afford a sup vigor, even if the price jacked up to 100k +500 ecto..., i'd just not invest in it.

and loviathar, it would cancel out 1 sup, but not using the sup rune would give you a higher healthlevel. So in the end it would all be balanced, its just that the balance would just shift from the balance we have now, to a new balance, but it will remain balanced.

PS: he prolly meant that using these 2 runes would cost you 2 spots you could have used otherwise for other runes. Runes which i really hope to see surfacing up in hte near future.

Jeremy Untouchable · Jun 10, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

/signed, i agree with uping the hp on sup runes, and major as well, should be at least 60, or even 75 health, and up the drop rate. i never understood why a sup rune that granted a skill increase was -75, yet a sup rune that granted a health increase is only 50...come on, dosnt even make since, and no i'm not poor, i have 4 sup vigors and 2 sup absorbs bought back in the day,( 6 months ago)

M C H A M M E R · Jun 10, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

/signed
I was on a maj vig + abs running most shiverpeaks flawlessly. I don't think it would unbalence anything

master_of_puppets · Jun 10, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkantos

Sup abs was -1 more dmg then major abs. did it make a huge difference? no.

Actually it does make a huge difference. We're talking about 1 dmg away from every single attack here.

As for the debate: Was the whole point of major/sup vig runes really to cancel out the health drop caused by other major/sup runes? And also, not every one uses sup runes, depending on what build you-re running, the health drop may not be worth it if you'd rather have more hp than slightly better skills. If a 9 hp difference isnt enough, I don't see how a 20 hp difference will be so godly anyway as to make it "worth" the price.

/not signed

Zui · Jun 10, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

The balance argument does.

The + health on armor is a trade off for other bonuses, like + 10 al versus physical. Superior vigors/absorbs have no trade off except the cost. Which is only relavent to vigors anymore. Cost does not effect balance. Stats do. If there's no trade off for increased stats, and the health penalty from other superior runes/major runes stay the same, you've altered the balance, just so a rune will be worth more.

Great Idea, and for the record, /notsigned

shadowfell · Jun 10, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

/not signed

first of all most of you who signed probably only signed because you can't afford one due to being poor.

Nice blanket statement and sadly, very untrue..

Riccari · Jun 10, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

/notsigned

I don't see a problem with it as 50. 'If it ain't broke don't fix it.'