Curse

NatalieD · Jun 14, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I would've been happier if they had throwing knives as a short-ranged weapon based on Deadly Arts, with a small set of actual attack skills instead of weird tacked-on dagger-throwing spells. (Wtf?) But I imagine it's too late to make that change.

I tend to think shuriken are severely played out, but they could've been an alternate skin for the throwing knives or something, I guess.

dreamhunk · Jun 14, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

yes i love the idea not just stars would be good but range of different stuff like dartsetc.

Pillz_veritas · Jun 14, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

/unsigned
/unsigned
/unsigned

There is *no* reason for an assassin to have ranged weapons. If you give Assassins ranged weapons why not give warriors crossbows and delete the whole entire Ranger class while you are at it?

If they do implement this, I will never by another expansion pack again.

dreamhunk · Jun 14, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz_veritas

/unsigned
/unsigned
/unsigned

There is *no* reason for an assassin to have ranged weapons. If you give Assassins ranged weapons why not give warriors crossbows and delete the whole entire Ranger class while you are at it?

If they do implement this, I will never by another expansion pack again.

asassins can already throw his dagger, there is 2 skills like that. I would like to see more.

giving worrirs cross bows is good idea too.

Numa Pompilius · Jun 14, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Ranged damage dealer & condition spreader = ranger.

/unsigned.

Does-it-Matter · Jun 15, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

What's wrong if it would be a new attribute?

Several things.

First, ANet has already stated that the only classes that will recieve updates from chapter to chapter are the core six (necro, monk, warrior, ranger, ele, mesmer). Everything else only gets what comes in THAT chapter. No updates skill-wise (besides balancing) later on.

Second, the instant Assassins get another attribute you will have hordes of people from all seven other classes going "Where's mine?"

Thirdly, Ranged Physical Weapons user? Subsitute an "r" for the "d" in Ranged.

My assassin uses a bow occasionally, and that's why I have a RANGER secondary.

--

Assassins are NOT meant to be DPS melee units, THAT is a Warrior. There is a reason that the Assassin has low armor and as soon as his combo is done, his damage output drops... Because at that point, you should be RUNNING AWAY from your current target as he (hopefully) has died.

Giving Assassins a Higher DPS is only encouraging people to play them as tanks. You should spend no more than 10 seconds on a target! Drop your combo, and leave. Otherwise you're playing a tank... and you wonder why monks hate us.

NatalieD · Jun 15, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Ranged damage dealer & condition spreader = ranger.

/unsigned.

...so I guess you're opposed to the assassin class existing in the first place, right, because melee damage dealer and condition spreader = warrior?

Dark Suoon · Jun 15, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

i think assassins need ranged and melee lol. personally they have weak armor so they should give a new thing to em
/signed

Does-it-Matter · Jun 15, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Suoon

i think assassins need ranged and melee lol. personally they have weak armor so they should give a new thing to em
/signed

Oh, like say double-strikes, gaining energy on criticals, or... I don't know... teleporting?

Yep, let's add more things to make the Ranger class worthless. We definately can't actually use a class as its intended. We want the KEWLness of the Assassin, but with Ranger skills, yeah!

Vahn Roi · Jun 15, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Assassin's already have throwing daggers and needles (Deadly arts anyone?) and those have half the "normal" range, I think that's fair enough given the fact that the assassin is a melee class.

/notsigned

dreamhunk · Jun 15, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Oh, like say double-strikes, gaining energy on criticals, or... I don't know... teleporting?

Yep, let's add more things to make the Ranger class worthless. We definately can't actually use a class as its intended. We want the KEWLness of the Assassin, but with Ranger skills, yeah!

there is already throwing daggers in shadow mastery! they are skills just add stars as a new skill.

CHUIU · Jun 15, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Disagree. Assassins own too much already.

Vahn Roi · Jun 15, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUIU

Disagree. Assassins own too much already.

In recent times I have actually found this to be true. When it comes to offensive output and defensive movement, they outclass warriors hands down, but unlike the cookie-cutter Whammo, they take a bit of practice to get over the "wall of suck"

Rogmar · Jun 15, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

This is a good idea, but then ANet will need to make a new attribute and give them more skills, so people will start complaining about an imbalance.

Just make Deadly Arts/Shadow Arts (The one that gives you "spells" that throw daggers) complement Throwing Daggers more

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Oh, like say double-strikes, gaining energy on criticals, or... I don't know... teleporting?

Yep, let's add more things to make the Ranger class worthless. We definately can't actually use a class as its intended. We want the KEWLness of the Assassin, but with Ranger skills, yeah!

Yeah and Elementalists are useless because Mesmers and Necromancers can already cast hexes and damage spells.
And Rangers are further shafted because Ritualists can use rituals that only affect their team positively (opposed to each player)
These daggers aren't for damage as much as being able to spec into another attribute such as Deadly/Shadow Arts while HAVING to use close range daggers.
This is the same reason why they added Smite offhands and why they should add Expertise/BM/WS weapons/staves/whatever...

Curse You · Jun 15, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

My simple thoughts:

Assassins are a melee class. They are intended to preform "hit-and-run" attacks on single targets. Assassins can deal over +200 damage (from skill chains) if you use the right skills. They have poison, bleeding, deep wound, dazed, crippled, (weakness?), and even knockdowns. They are NOT tanks, they have no good self healing moves, or any major damage prevention moves.
Put simply, learn how to use an assassin and you will find that they are already powerful (maybe too much) for attacking all professions in some way.

Also, if you're wondering about the role of warriors. They are tanks; they stand, walk, or run while taking massive damage that no other class can take. They have the highest armor of all professions, and many moves that can increase their already high armor. They do NOT deal large damage (contrary to what many people think) and are only able to deal "base damage" for the other professions to then use to kill the target (note the main ability of warriors to cause conditions that decrease the target's heal, counter regen, and weaken the attacks of the target.)

BahamutKaiser · Jun 15, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Assassin can already use Bow just fine, actually, they probably do more DPS then Ranger with bow, since they have increased critical hits, and gain energy back from criticals rather than saving energy on skills, Damage+energy managment is more effective, at least for the attack skills.

Assassins also have a few "Dagger" throwing moves, like Dance of Daggers, using your energy for spell type attacks actually works...... not well enough for my tastes, but it doesn't suck..... that bad.

Assassins are ment to teleport in and out of combat, making up for their lack of armor by aleviating the time and damage taken advancing or retreating from combat. But Assassin needs the ability to move in and out of combat frequently in order to make up for their lack of armor.... and using massive amounts of energy reduces the energy they can use on skills.....Warrior can use teleports more efficiently then Assassin, his Attacks are adrenaline based......

I believe the resounding flaw with Assassin is the weakness of his teleports. His most unique and defining capability is barely useable, it isn't good enough to compensate for his lack of defense, with high costs, or high recasts, or elite use..... Your talking about massive penalties for something Assassin needs to use regularly to compete.

I don't think Assassin needs a ranged weapon, I can get one from Ranger secondary, and use critical strikes with Marksmenship and Wilderness survival to gain safe and effective attacks as well as more efficient healing skills.

I could understand a 45 second recharge on an advancing teleport which blinds all enemies adjacent to targeted enemy, I could understand an elite teleport which cost 5 energy and one maintenance to advance and retreat every 15 seconds, I could understand teleporting to a random location with a defensive heal every 5 seconds, but what we have now is crap, can't use it enough, cost too much, and using an elite just to move in and out..... at that cost, Anet must seriously want Assassins to stay in Factions, that's what I forsee at least.

Assassin needs effective teleports in order to move in and out of combat to compensate for the natural advantages of armor on Warrior or attack distance on Ranger, not barely useable, expensive, elite teleports, it isn't enough to compete. I thought Elementist had problems, til I realized they had Assassins to instantly fry on the melee line. Unless something is done, I really do think Assassins will stay in chapter 2, and the first good melee alternative will mark Assassins extinction.

I can put 200+ damage on one target, plus blind and weakness from full range with elementist, requiring successful skill combinations, at melee range....... and less healing support........ Please tell me that wasn't justification for Assassins damage Curse You (person named). With those kind of difficulties I should have cheap teleports and better damage to compete with. Assassin doesn't deal any better conditions then Ranger, and his skills not only cost energy just like Ranger skills, but he has to either march up, or spend energy and skill slots on teleports to reach the enemy, use twice as much healing to keep himself alive wile fighting on the front line, and successfully put skills together in chains not just to deal damage, but to even be able to continue with the rest of his attacks....... And Guess what!, 200+ damage isn't even a unknown damage figure for Warrior, using both hands to attack with a hammer just the same as Assassin with both hands occupied with daggers, I've seen warriors put out damage well near 100 in one hit, 2 or 3 skills by a Warrior, including several knockdowns and not including strenuous skill combination in order to execute skills easily matches Assassin for damage in a short period of time.

But an Assassin can use 4 skills in a row under certain circumstances, if none of the attacks arn't prevented by a chance evasion, blindness, or some other defense skill, can deal AS MUCH damage as anyone else.... doesn't impress me, honestly it doesn't, not even for a second.

ubermancer · Jun 15, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

I would've been happier if they had throwing knives as a short-ranged weapon based on Deadly Arts, with a small set of actual attack skills instead of weird tacked-on dagger-throwing spells. (Wtf?) But I imagine it's too late to make that change.

I tend to think shuriken are severely played out, but they could've been an alternate skin for the throwing knives or something, I guess.

Eh, while I do agree with the "caltrops is a SPELL? what the @#$%!?" statement, Assassin's are a *kind* of ranged attacker.

In the same since that a boomerang itself is a ranged attacker.

Curse You · Jun 15, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Bahamut, you obviously didn't look closelt enough at my comment. I say +200 damage, not 200+ damage. That means that the 200 is added to the regular damage from the dagger attacks (and critical strikes), which can easily add up to 300+ damage in about 10 seconds. I have killed MANY warriors who think they wont be taken down by a "weak" assassin. I showed them, dead in about 15 seconds, and then I moved on to a new target.

Also, anyone notice that assassins have the SAME armor level as rangers? That would probably mean that they can take a similar amount of pummeling. Now last time I checked, many people use various ranger builds that use melee weapons (hammer/pet rangers) and they seem to do ok at that. I'm not saying that assassins can tank, but I am saying they are better protected than most casters and are therefore better suited for melee.

About the assassins having attacks that cost energy and nesscisary skills that also use energy, ever notice that assassins have 4 pips of regen? No other physical damage class has this. I sometimes have problems with energy being gone in seconds, but you can regain that energy in a very short time. Aslo, there are several skills that allow you to gain more energy per hit.

Oh and about the topic of assassins having ranged weapons, no, just, no. Rangers are for ranged attacks, warriors are for melee attacks, and assassins wander around in between, being somewhat ranged melee attackers that can move really fast.

/not signed (seriously, make a ranger)

Janus_Zeal · Jun 15, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Also, anyone notice that assassins have the SAME armor level as rangers?

Don't rangers have elemetal resistance on all their armors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Oh and about the topic of assassins having ranged weapons, no, just, no. Rangers are for ranged attacks, warriors are for melee attacks, and assassins wander around in between, being somewhat ranged melee attackers that can move really fast.

I would consider half range "somewhat ranged", wouldn't you? So what's wrong with making ranged daggers like that?

twicky_kid · Jun 15, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Sins do not need ranged weapons. What they need is the half range restriction removed from their skills. What's the point of using a skill with that kind of range if I can take a few more steps and be in melee range. That's just dumb.

Its another reason why a lot of those skills go unused.