Curse

master_of_puppets · Jun 05, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before, and if it was, it might have been in the GvG forum.

This is mostly concerning high ranked guilds, whose ratings drop the most from losses but also for other guilds too.

Often, in GvG one person (or sometimes, more than one) gets error07 or gets stuck and cant move. These kinds of things can basically screw over the entire GvG match for your team. I'm suggesting an option for the leader of either group to offer a draw, and every player on the other team chooses either to agree or disagree. If over 50% of the team agrees, than the match is cancelled and both teams are returned to their guild hall, with no rating changes. The players still keep any faction that they got during the match.

This wouldnt be abused since both teams have to agree, and yes it wouldnt work some of the time, since some people are jerks and would rather buff their guild's rating than get an honest win (life doesnt always go in your favor) , but there are still other people who would agree and so you wouldnt have to lose over bad luck.

romO · Jun 05, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

You're right that it would work occasionally. However, I don't think that it would work often enough for it to be too influential. Especially when the seasons are so short and many people make pushes for a lot of rating in very small time frames and need anything that they can get.

anonymous · Jun 05, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

/not signed because of scrub alert, there is no "honest way to win, just playing the game.

Not playing the mercy card doesnt make you a jerk. Things like this happen, its just tough luck, just do another 1 or 2 GvGs and get it back

The high ranked guilds that you say would take a big hit should have no problem getting it back if they are actually good and didnt just get lucky farming bad teams.

Even if this did get implemented it should require all 8 to want mercy for the other team.

Zui · Jun 05, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

/notsigned

Play to win. If they're really that skilled, they can beat you with a handicap, or more likely get the lost rating back in a few matches.

Thom · Jun 05, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

If a command existed, there would be no good time to use it. I've won matches that have looked down right ugly half way through. Some teams make a living of on last minute comebacks, therefore there is no reason why a team should surrender what could be an easy victory due to an error 7. Only three situations exist:
1) The error 7 team was getting beaten-- there is no way a draw should ever be called here.
2) The error 7 team was even -- even at a disadvantage anything could happen. You can't really expect mercy here from a team who likes there chances at VoD.
3) The error 7 team was winning. The loss will hurt you, but if the advantage was significant you can likely pull out a victory.

Now the only time this could get used is when two "friendly guilds" decide that they don't want to play each other. If there was a climbing guild who draws a top 10 guild, neither team really wants to fight since the top guild risks getting tanked and the climbing guild doesn't want to waste time on a probable loss when they could be owning noobs. Say EW(1) was matched against Deer(68), depending on their mood Deer may agree to call the draw before a shot was fired and EW would probably agree. This would kind of ruin the whole randomness of the ladder.

Since the only real use would be borderline abusive this is a bad idea. The current arrangement is quite clear: fight the battle regardless, because as soon as you enter points are on the line.

Edit: Correcting the mistake Zui put out there; my original example was iQ(4) but I switched in EW(1) since they are the biggest loser in this situation.

Zui · Jun 05, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Say EW(1) was matched against Deer(68), depending on their mood Deer may agree to call the draw before a shot was fired and iQ would probably agree. This would kind of ruin the whole randomness of the ladder.

3 way GvG? I'm in.

Imp · Jun 05, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

don't get to gvg much, but I can see how this would be very useful for the honorable guilds.

/signed

Thom · Jun 05, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Imp, that's the problem. Honorable is a very hazy thing here:
-It is incredibly easy for a dishonorable guild to fake an error 7 to use the other guilds honor to retrieve points.

-If two guilds disagreed on who was winning (which largely determines the "honorable" thing to do), this whole thing would lead to much name calling.

-Everyone from rank 200 up is fairly rank competitive and would be more than willing to screw "honor" and play to win.

-The system would allow a greater level of dishonorable activity, since it would provide guilds some opponent choice in a supposively random environment. This just isn't far to teams who play what's dealt them.

-There is an honorable option at present: resign if a loss is inevidable or drop a player if the other team had an error 7.

Just believe the people that do gvg here, this is a very bad idea and would only hurt "honorable" guilds.

master_of_puppets · Jun 05, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Though how do you fake an error 07? If it says in green letters "so and so has left the game" than thats not really faking it...

Winning with 7 vs. 8 is possible I know, but 6 vs. 8 and anything below, is pretty dam hard. This is considering the error 07's occured at the beginning of the match.

I think most guilds would be smart enough to realize when the other team is trying to trick them. If a team was losing badly and the losing team got an error 07, then the winning team wouldnt give them the draw, because they'd know that the losing team had no chance anyway.

Lafayette · Jun 06, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

Though how do you fake an error 07? If it says in green letters "so and so has left the game" than thats not really faking it...

The message stated in-game for leaving is the same regardless of it being due to an err7 or just quitting. How do you fake it? Press the little X in the top right hand corner.

I say no, for similar reasons to those outlined by Thom.

Savio · Jun 06, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

Though how do you fake an error 07? If it says in green letters "so and so has left the game" than thats not really faking it...

Regardless of how you leave a game, whether it's by accidental err7, forced err7, warping to another area, or exiting the game program, it always displays the same message: "Gannon Stormrage has left the game." There isn't a way to distinguish between any of them. The only "honor" in a competitive game is whether or not you follow the game rules, and the rules don't say an 8v7 win is "dishonest."

master_of_puppets · Jun 15, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Regardless of how you leave a game, whether it's by accidental err7, forced err7, warping to another area, or exiting the game program, it always displays the same message: "Gannon Stormrage has left the game." There isn't a way to distinguish between any of them. The only "honor" in a competitive game is whether or not you follow the game rules, and the rules don't say an 8v7 win is "dishonest."

Yes I know that, but if it says that in the beginning then its probably not faking it. Why would any guild have a member leave before the match has even started yet?

I dont think any guilds would have 1 or 2 members leave to fake it unless it was completely obvious that they lost and have no chance of winning. And I think any guild would realize that it was fake and wouldnt give the draw if they knew theyre gonna win and even if people from the other didnt quit they would have won anyway.

You might say some guilds would fake err7 if they are losing slightly but if they still have a chance to win i dont think many would risk it. They dont even know if the other guild would agree to a draw, so having people fake err7 only to see the other guild refuse would be pretty much digging their own grave :P

BeowulfKamdas · Jun 15, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

i don't think its really worth it... Just deal with losing 10-20 points on ur guild rating

Tarun · Jun 15, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

/not signed - It's not needed. There's /resign and if you watch the GvG's it's a matter of time before someone wins.