Curse

xRustyx · May 01, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Somebody had to make this thread. Dual smite making a comeback = good, but that skill is overpowered. Or am I a pussy?

Dicuss.

P.S. If you do not know what the skill does, take a look. =P

P.P.S. I forgot to make a poll. Wow I rock at the internets.

Rebelde · May 01, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

You need to learn to kite. And stop playing tombs

xRustyx · May 01, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

No one likes you. OHSHI

Tap Tap · May 01, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Dual Smite was nerfed before, so I would assume that ArenaNet viewed it as overpowered.

Right now, it's worse then it was originally, and yes Air of Enchantment has way too low of recast to be considered balanced.

I support xRustyx :thumbsup:

KodiakArrest · May 01, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

I'm down with this petition.

Shortyafter · May 01, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

I've run this in Tombs myself and played against [Bus] who also ran it. I have concluded that the 3 monk backline easily owns this build provided the team is spread out. In order for it to work the warriors need to coordinate adren spikes, and possibly the timing of the Balth's Auras. The pressure damage is just crap, and since it requries coordation it's not like it's free and easy wins. In GvG it's a different story. The pressure overwhelms the standard 2 boon prot backline. So, is the solution to nerf the skill, or to adjust your own build? If it becomes a FotM (as it seems to be), just run a 3 monk backline, gg. Don't cry to A-Net just because you can't adapt.

Rebelde · May 01, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortyafter

Don't cry to A-Net just because you can't adapt.

QFT.

If he is smiting off a warrior, snare the warrior and diversion his RoF or Draw (Or whatever smiters use these days). Or just Sig of Humility his Air of enchant, or just blackout the smiter (Every team has at least 1 blackout. Blackout RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing owns.) Or, just split, and if they have 2 smiters and split on you aswell, just kite your ass off while blacking out the monk and Diversioning the ele.

I can see the dual smiters killing builds who don't have skills like that, but last time I seen a top tier guild play without those skills was vOR, and Bloodspike is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing nub.

The Fox · May 01, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Nerf nerf! Yeah!

wow wasn't that fun! j/k Why don't you give pvp some time to make counters before whinning about any of the new skills. After all, it's only been a few days.

xRustyx · May 01, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

whinning

Notice that this topic is a question instead of a rant. As in like, are you stupid? As opposed to, you are a stupid. While we're at it, would you like to play some Whinning Seven?

Tap Tap · May 01, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortyafter

I've run this in Tombs myself and played against [Bus] who also ran it. I have concluded that the 3 monk backline easily owns this build provided the team is spread out. In order for it to work the warriors need to coordinate adren spikes, and possibly the timing of the Balth's Auras. The pressure damage is just crap, and since it requries coordation it's not like it's free and easy wins. In GvG it's a different story. The pressure overwhelms the standard 2 boon prot backline. So, is the solution to nerf the skill, or to adjust your own build? If it becomes a FotM (as it seems to be), just run a 3 monk backline, gg. Don't cry to A-Net just because you can't adapt.

"Adapting" a build (more then one player) over the fact that one skill inherently empowers a half dozen others?

Sounds like overpowered to me.

Shortyafter · May 01, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tap Tap

"Adapting" a build (more then one player) over the fact that one skill inherently empowers a half dozen others?

Sounds like overpowered to me.

Okay, I guess adapting to the meta is pretty silly.

Tap Tap · May 01, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebelde

QFT.

If he is smiting off a warrior, snare the warrior and diversion his RoF or Draw (Or whatever smiters use these days). Or just Sig of Humility his Air of enchant, or just blackout the smiter (Every team has at least 1 blackout. Blackout RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing owns.)

Except for that fact that those Warriors are W/Mo's with CoP, and plenty of Enchantments on them to erase any hex or condition snare, on top of usually a support character with additional hex remover, not to mention the smiters using Draw Conditions. So how exactly do you propose you snare someone, and I'd love you to suggest Wards. Ward utilization with AoE damage from Balths Aura and Zealots Fire is such a lovely experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebelde

Or, just split, and if they have 2 smiters and split on you aswell, just kite your ass off while blacking out the monk and Diversioning the ele.

Hmmm...from the two smite teams we just played, didn't see one ele that was doing the smiting. But we'll toss a Diversion on him, just to be safe. As far as kiting, again I'd love to see that, with Warrior's that have very little shutdown on them. You could kite around them I'm sure for a while, but if you stop to use any of your skills, they're going to be able to catch up to you pretty quick. So that means to use your Blackout, or even your Sig of Humility (2s cast time, would you stand there and cast it while getting smited?), you'd have to stop for at least one second, and that gives those warriors a chance to unload on you somehow. At least that was the experience we had when we played both smite teams. You either kited around everywhere, or you casted a skill or two and took massive damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebelde

I can see the dual smiters killing builds who don't have skills like that, but last time I seen a top tier guild play without those skills was vOR, and Bloodspike is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing nub.

Uh...what? That has absolutely no relevance to the idea of Air of Enchantment being overpowered.

Nice use of language also. I see the engine is not only gored, but red.

Tap Tap · May 01, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortyafter

Okay, I guess adapting to the meta is pretty silly.

You miss the point.

Adapting to a current trend of the metagame is not silly.

Adapting to a current trend of the metagame because of one skill is. We'll still adapt, but I can't remember one skill ever having so much power over a single build. Of course I could be wrong, so if you know of one, point it out.

Take Air of Enchantment out of that build. Does it still work? Yes, but probably no where near as well as it is now. I'm sure the initial smite onslaught would be painful, but that monk's energy supply could run out real fast, leaving them dead in the water (the smiting monk). You take away Air of Enchantment, that smiter gets hung out to try, considering that its his energy management, and also an elite skill. He can continue to smite as long as he has energy, however from what I observed last night, it would have to be with natural regen.

If everyone decided Diversion was the coolest skill in the world to run, of course we'd adapt to it. However, Diversion doesn't make other skills powerful by itself. If you were to shut down that one skill, that would leave seven other skills on that players bar to use. He's still in the game with seven skills. No Air of Enchantment leads to a much different build I'd imagine to be able to smite.

Lastly,

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap tap

Dual Smite was nerfed before, so I would assume that ArenaNet viewed it as overpowered.

Creative people have made it come back with a nasty vengence. That's pretty ingenious to be honest, but I consider this version of smite more powerful then the original. If the original was overpowered (and nerfed), why would the newer, more powerful version not be?

Shortyafter · May 01, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tap Tap

You miss the point.

Adapting to a current trend of the metagame is not silly.

Adapting to a current trend of the metagame because of one skill is. We'll still adapt, but I can't remember one skill ever having so much power over a single build. Of course I could be wrong, so if you know of one, point it out.

Take Air of Enchantment out of that build. Does it still work? Yes, but probably no where near as well as it is now. I'm sure the initial smite onslaught would be painful, but that monk's energy supply could run out real fast, leaving them dead in the water (the smiting monk). You take away Air of Enchantment, that smiter gets hung out to try, considering that its his energy management, and also an elite skill. He can continue to smite as long as he has energy, however from what I observed last night, it would have to be with natural regen.

If everyone decided Diversion was the coolest skill in the world to run, of course we'd adapt to it. However, Diversion doesn't make other skills powerful by itself. If you were to shut down that one skill, that would leave seven other skills on that players bar to use. He's still in the game with seven skills. No Air of Enchantment leads to a much different build I'd imagine to be able to smite.

I say give it a week, if dual smite still owns, then nerf it. I don't think you can seriously claim something owns if its only been around for 2 days.

Quote:

Creative people have made it come back with a nasty vengence. That's pretty ingenious to be honest, but I consider this version of smite more powerful then the original. If the original was overpowered (and nerfed), why would the newer, more powerful version not be?

Actually, the spammability and damage of the new version is so much worse than the old E/Mo build. Sure the damage is very overpowering now - but people weren't running 2 monks when E/Mo smiting was around.

Pharalon · May 02, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

The problem with Air of Enchant is that it allows you to do substantial damage, keep your smite target clean and protted, ad provides excellent energy management for boon prots all in one package. The raw power of the skill is staggering. I really wouldn't be worried about how it performs in tombs, because nobody really cares about that. The build shines most strongly in a 4 man split in GvG. You've got 1 Boon Prot firing off big 2e heals, meaning they're not tied down with secondary energy management anymore and can operate at almost top efficiency at 0 energy. You've got a smiter, keeping a warrior/assassin clean of conditions and almost immune to damage, taking a lot of pressure off the boon prot, while doing more pressure damage than 1 monk can deal with. It's going to wipe any existing 4 man split with relative ease, and even if it can't defeat them, with 2 monks with 2 copies of Air of Enchantment (if that's even necessary), it's incredibly hard to punch through that defense.

The skill really needs a longer recharge, probably in the order of 15-20 seconds. Once you can no longer maintain it on multiple people, and once enchantment removal becomes a meaningful counter, the skill will be somewhere close to being balanced.

xRustyx · May 02, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Excellent points made people. Need I say more?

Synthetic · May 02, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I think it is a bit early to be calling for nerfs. I think that this just needs some time to figure out the best counter and then it will fall to the wayside. The skill was just introduced and people have come up with a great use for it. If this is too difficult to counter ANet will beat it with the nerf stick and most likely create another useless elite. I think this just requires some time.

Phoenix Arrows · May 02, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Let me get this straight. Just because people beat you with Air of Enchantment, you need a nerf for it? And did anyone say that you couldn't use it?

If Air of Enchantment is such a pain for your teams, try actually USING it so that both teams are overpowered to the same level. Just because the other team chose to use the "overpowered" skill doesn't mean you can't use it.

I say keep it the way it is. There was no rule saying other people couldn't use it. It's just that they don't. I don't think it is fair that just because some people have found a use for a build around it that it should be nerfed.

/not-signed

BahamutKaiser · May 02, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

This just brings me back to Monks being overpowered in general, it is sad that a monk can bring more effective and powerful DoT spells to a battle then an Elementist, expecially since the monk is primarily heal and protect, with only a fraction of attacking skills, yet elementist has 4 attributes full of attack skills which don't bring nearly as much power to the table.

25 energy allows a monk to cast DoT armor ignoring damage on a mobile target for 10 seconds, yet an elementist spend just as much for Searing Heat or Maelstorm which is easily evaded since it is immobile, and easily misplaced because of long cast times, allowing enemies to evade the damage and effects easily, aside from the fact that they do less damage. Maelstorm cost exhaustion as well, so bringing up the added interrupt doesn't change the status quo.

I realize that all classes should have some offesnive power, but it is profoundly broken when the support/defensive class has more effective offensive techniques then the offensive class, which also has very limited defensive/support capabilities. If monk can DoT more effectively then Elementist, then Elementist should either be improved in damage, or given some Healing over Time Location spells, like a large Healing Spring, or medium Location regen.

It is a slap in the face when people argue about whether or not the defensive classes attack skills are overpowered, Elementist should be the one facing damage scrutiny

Valerria · May 02, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

It's powerful but hardly over-powered, and definitely NOT over-used yet. Nothing gets nerfed if it's not commonly encountered.