Curse

Rikimaru · Jul 13, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Premise:
This class uses a weapon called a "Glaive", it's basically a very large 4-pointed shuriken, around 2 1/2 feet in diameter, and it's used similar to a boomerang. Search this page for "Shuriken" for some information on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaive
These versions should also have a large hole in the center to hold it with.
They also use "tools" to perform many skills, and they are very agile.
With the Glaive, they are capable of performing either ranged or melee attacks, though it focuses primarily on range. The Glaive is a 2-handed weapon.
-If you don't want to read all of the little details of the class, skip down to the "Attributes" section, marked by a "-".

Appearance:
They should be very thin, similar to an assassin. They should also have somewhat loose-fitting clothes.

Armor:
Cloth-type. 70AL, 25 energy, 3 regen, +20 vs physicle. Additional +'s to AL based on armor set, including +10AL while moving or attacking (one effect).

Purpose:
The class' purpose is as an insanely mobile source of consistant damage, both from melee and range. They can keap on a target effortlessly, and pressure the $%^# out of them. They are also good at avoiding direct conflict against themselves.

New Mechanics:
These are things completely new to the game which the class adds. And just for clarification, 50' is a measurement equal to about the length of the aggro bubble.

Glaive:
The Glaive has 2 different "attack-forms", ranged and melee.
The Glaive starts out in Ranged attack-form, and switches back and forth between ranged and melee when you use Glaive skills. Ranged Glaive attack skills put it in the ranged attack form, and melee Glaive attack skills put it in the melee attack-form. You will continue to attack in that form until you use an attack of a different form.
When in the ranged form, the Glaive attacks at a max range equal to that of spells, 50'. The actual wind-up of the attack is very fast, but you have to wait for the Glaive to reach the target and return before you can attack again, creating a total speed of about 1.75 seconds. The closer the target is to you, the longer the "wind-up" animation, so that the speed stays equal at any range. You should also be able to run around after it's hit the target and is returning. Some of the ranged form attacks will also travel in an arc to help avoid obstacles.
In melee form, the weapon has an attack speed of about 1.45, but it does the same amount of damage as in ranged.
The Glaive's damage should be around 20-28, and it should do slashing damage.
Here's the summary of that:
Damage: 20-28
Speed: 1.75 in ranged form, 1.45 in melee form.
If you try to attack outside of melee range without a skill, it will go into ranged form automatically, and if you try to attack inside melee range without a skill, it will switch to melee form automatically. Skills switch the form automatically regardless of range,.The ranged glaive attack skills cannot be used in melee range, and a melee glaive attack skill used at range will cause you to chase the target.

Tools:
Tools are skills that have no cost, just like signets and glyphs. They should also actually show you pull out the tool when you use the tool skill. They usually have a high reset time to compensate, which makes Rogues the best users of tools.

Weapon Attachments:
Weapon attachments are a type of tool that works much like a Weapon Enchantment, but they last permanently from when you activate the skill untill you activate it again, and they grant negative effects just as they grant positive ones. The attachment is removed automatically if you unequip the weapon. Up to 3 attachments can be placed on the same weapon.

Maneuvers:
Maneuvers are skills that cause you to leap or dodge in a certain way. When you are using one that causes you to leap, you do not actually leave the ground, it just appears that you are, just like with the /jump emote. They typically cause you to move very quickly in a certain way (equivalent to a 60% run boost), and while you are perfoming the maneuver animation you "avoid" any attack against you. "Avoid" is basically the same as "Evade", except that it can't be countered to hit you anyway. These skills are meant to be used either as a controlled dodge in combat, or to get into a strategic position in combat, like leaping out of melee range or keaping on a target trying to avoid you. The leaping versions typically have a range of about 25'.
Attacks performed during maneuvers either take place during the moving animation, or are very fast, around 1/3 of a second.
Leaping maneuvers also allow you to move through body-blocks.
One of the most important things to know about Manuevers is that they cannot be used while you're crippled.

-Attributes:
Glaive Mastery: Each point in this increases the damage of Glaives, and the chance to score a critical hit with one. Glaives have both melee and ranged skills.
Tools: Each point in this enhances the effects of skills relating to the use of Tools.
Agile Maneuvers: Each point in this enhances the effects of skills relating to dodging, chasing, or manuevering around enemies.
Finesse (P): Each point in Finesse reduces the reset time of skills by 4%. The effect is only raised by 3% for each point after 5, and 2% for each point after 13. (Skills include anything but spells, enchantments or hexes. The effect caps at 50% at rank 16.)

Skills:

Glaive Mastery:
Inordinate Velocity: 5e cost, 20s reset.
Glaive ranged attack. Throw your glaive at target foe, inflicting +8...20 damage and interrupting their current action.
Hail Fall: 5e cost, 12s reset.
Glaive ranged attack. Throw your glaive in an upward arc, striking your target from above and inflicting +8...30 damage. This attack grants 1...3 strikes of adrenaline if it hits.
Blade Squall: 10e cost, 14s reset.
Glaive ranged attack. Throw your glaive in an expanding circle around yourself, striking all foes in the area.
Disembowel: 5e cost, 15s reset.
Glaive ranged attack. Throw your glaive in a circling right arc, hitting your target from the side and inflicting Deep Wound for 6...18 seconds.
Oversight: 5e cost, 6s reset.
Glaive ranged attack. Throw your glaive to full range, striking your target as it reaches them and a second time as it returns. The glaive will not go to full range if it strikes an obstruction.
Wilt: 8a cost.
Glaive melee attack. Strike target foe twice, dealing 25% less damage with each strike and inflicting Weakness and Crippled for 4...10 seconds.
Pinwheel: 8a cost.
Glaive melee attack. Strike target foe three times, and recover 1 energy for each successful strike. Your enchantments do not take effect during this attack.
Bladed Uppercut: 2a cost, 6s reset.
Glaive melee attack. Strike target foe, inflicting +5...10 damage and Bleeding for 5...16 seconds.
Fabricate Slash: 1a cost, 5s reset.
Glaive melee attack. Swing at target foe, but "miss" automatically. Your next attack cannot be blocked or evaded, and is 40% faster. This grants 1adrenaline.
Blade Gyre (E): 10a cost.
Glaive melee attack. For 3 seconds, become immobile and attack all adjacent foes every 0.75 seconds, for a total of 4 attacks.
Unyielding Assault: 5e cost, 20s reset.
Stance. For 10...25 seconds, all of your Glaive attacks recover +1 of your energy, and have a 10% chance to strike through a Block or Evade.

Tools:
Lead Plating: 4s cast, 5s reset.
Weapon Attachment. While this is attached, you deal +5...10 damage, but your attacks are 1/2 second slower.
Trap Disarmer: 3s cast, 30s reset.
Tool. Disable all traps in the area. You lose 4 energy for each trap disabled.
Flask of Water: 1 3/4 second cast, 6s reset.
Tool. Recover 40...180 health and 5 energy. This skill is easily interrupted.
Blackjack: 1s cast, 20s reset.
Tool. Can only be used on a target from behind. This inflicts Dazed on target foe for 4...10 seconds.
Blade Extension: 4s cast, 5s reset.
Weapon Attachment. While this is attached to a slashing weapon, all non-skill attacks with it strike all foes adjacent to the target as well. You lose all enchantments and cannot be the target of further enchantments while this is attached.
Hidden Pistol: 1s cast, 25s reset.
Tool. Fire a small pistol at target foe from up to 30' away, inflicting 10...70 damage.
Medicinal Herbs: 2s cast, 10s reset.
Tool. Heal any negative conditions from yourself, but suffer from Dazed for 5...3 seconds.
Metabolic Siphon: 4s cast, 5s reset.
Weapon Attachment. While this is attached to a melee weapon, you steal 2 energy any time you successfully strike a foe, but you will absorb one condition from them, with 100...60% of it's remaining duration. If you successfully strike a foe 5 times in 4 seconds, you suffer from Dazed for 5 seconds.

Agile Maneuvers:
Leaping Slash: 5e cost, 10s reset.
Maneuver. Leap up to 25' to target foe and strike them if you have a melee weapon equipped. The attack inflicts Crippled for 2...6 seconds. This will switch a Glaive to melee attack form. This cannot be used in melee range.
Backflip: 5e cost, 8s reset.
Maneuver. Leap backwards 25', and attack target foe at the end of the skill if you have a ranged weapon equipped. This will switch a Glaive to ranged attack form.
Roll: 5e cost, 4s reset.
Maneuver. Dodge at random to either the left or right 15'. Anyone who attempts to strike you in melee during this takes 10...40 damage.
Slit Throat: 5e cost, 6s reset.
Maneuver. Quickly dodge behind target foe. If you have a melee weapon equiped, you strike for an automatic critical hit. This will switch a Glaive into melee attack form.
Ethereal Defense: 5e cost, 45s reset.
Stance. For 4...6 seconds, you have a 75% chance to evade. The duration is refreshed every time you use a skill.
Birr: 5e cost, 20s reset.
Stance. For 6 seconds, you run 50% faster and have a 50% chance to dodge while moving. Any time you stop moving, you are knocked down.
Aggressive Will: 10e cost, 30s reset.
Skill. For 5...15 seconds, you are unaffected by Crippled or slowing hexes, though you will still recieve the condition or hex.
Cannonade: 5e cost, 12s reset.
Maneuver. Must have a Glaive equipped. Throw your glaive at target foe, leap towards them and catch it on the return, then slash target foe a second time in melee. This has a maximum range of 25', and cannot be used in melee range. Air-speed enhancements do not work with this skill.

Finesse:
Battle Expert: 5e cost, 25s reset.
Skill. For 20 seconds, attack skills recharge 10...20% faster, but cost 2 more energy to use.
Swift Celerity: 10e cost, 30s reset.
Skill. For 20 seconds, you attack 33% faster, but suffer 1 energy degeneration.

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I Was going to make a "Black Powder Bomb" tool, but I couldn't find the real name for them. They were little round sacks of Black Powder with a wick sticking out of the top, and they were used by Pirates. If any of you have played a Legend of Zelda game, that's what they look like.

Can anyone find the name of that bomb? It'd also be cool if anyone could give me some suggestions for some Pirate-like skills, 'cause pirate's are so damn cool

Rikimaru · Jul 14, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I'm going to bump this, since no one has posted. I've also updated a decent amount of it.

TadaceAce · Jul 14, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Non stance ias = bad. Especially one that good.

Flask of water... that is really... really good self heal.

Glaives damage is too high and should be 1.33 attack speed.. not write new code for 1.45.

Finesse needs to be a static amount, like 2 maybe 3%. I really think would create huge imbalance issues. Especially since they have the same amount of energy as a monk? 30 standard + 17 = 47?

unholy guardian · Jul 14, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

i like the idea, although it makes me think of my poor sin who would most likely be forgotten :\

lightblade · Jul 14, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Even though I don't like your ideas...but I have to say it is much well written (and well thought) than those other concept classes we see around this forum.

Rikimaru · Jul 14, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Finally, some advice!

I Don't understand your 1st point though, and Flask of Water heals that well because if anyone hits you with anything, it's interrupted. It actually heals for around the same amount as Healing Signet I think.
Also, they're supposed to write new code, it's an expansion. And if I just lowered the damage and upped the speed, it'd move at an unrealistic speed when you throw it, and it'd get incredibly complicated, I'm pretty sure, if it's damage changed every time you switched between melee and range.
And you're right about the energy, I'll drop it to 25, and I'll make Finesse a little weaker.
Thanks for the advice though.

Im Perfect U Aint · Jul 15, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

to have 1 wep b ranged and melee isnt very fair to other classes....cause a hand axe is small enough to b thrown but ur not alowed

actionjack · Jul 15, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

melee and range? gunblade?

But anyway.. as what a girl would say about a rainbow color unicorn poney, "Its Good".

The New Mechanics seem new enough, nicely presented, good skills, overally, pretty nice. Seem a bit ranger-istic or assassin-isc still, and bit too rounded and don't seem to specialize in much else, but its decent on its own ground. I think Rogue doesn't fit well thought.. maybe some other name to fill the spot.

Kudos, and keep up the good work.

BahamutKaiser · Jul 15, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Definetly your best idea so far, the melee/range attack swappin skills are very nice, and it makes it original. I'm sure the skills could use some work, it is impossible to balance them "accurately" without actually testing them though so it isn't really important. Being better than Assassin is a must, Assassin are underpowered and should be improved, they should not be a standard of weakness for other new classes, hopefully future melee or ranged classes are closer in effectiveness to Warrior and Ranger, Assassin has proven that skill use ("poor skills") doesn't compensate for natural effeciency.

The armor seems a little strong, wait, let me look again, it doesn't work quite right actually. As a melee/ranged unit it should have a base of at least 70, which is the same as ranger and assassin, that along with physical damage resistance should be enough, assassins armor is already highly situational, that turned out bad, and since this class has an option to be melee or ranged, and obviously doesn't have as much energy restraints as Assassin, it should probably have lower energy, perhaps even run on adrenaline skills with low energy armor. The real decider on how much energy the Rogue should have is whether the glaive is one handed or 2, whether or not they can equip an energy item or not.

I say the class should have low energy, about as low as warriors, the melee glaive attacks can be adrenaline and the ranged ones can be energy, since the ranged attacks arn't spammable it would be a very low energy cost class. Although that may severly lower its cross class effectiveness.

I think the name is quite inaccurate, but I don't know of any combat type which secificly uses glaives and throwing weapons so an accurate name may not be available. Still Rogue is typically simular to Ranger and Assassin, ususally as a D&D style ninja. I more original identity should be considered, but changing the title isn't important, we all asked for ninjas and we got assassins, same thing.

Rikimaru · Jul 15, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

That's some really good advice, thanks.

I'll look at the AL and Energy levels and try to fix and balance them, but adrenaline would be kindof a bad idea, because that would greatly reduce the effectiveness of their primary attribute, since Adrenal skills have no reset.
So far, the best way to fix that issue to me seems to be to lower their energy and raise their armor, like you said, but instead of giving them Adrenal skills I could give them a decent amount of skills to recover energy. This way cross-classing would work fine as well, unlike with assassins...

If you hadn't noticed, I had taken alot of the ideas you gave me in that nameless class and altered them.

Ok, I've added a mention in there that Glaives are 2-handed, I added some energy recovering to some of the attacks, I added a few skills, I fixed a couple descriptions, and I updated the armor stats.

Rikimaru · Jul 16, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Anyone have more advice? I Don't think there's much that needs to be fixed at this point, but I'd really like some oppinions, and some new skill ideas if you have any. I've also made another change, Manuevers can no longer be used while you're crippled, the reference to that is in there.

redmen12 · Jul 16, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

i think if you make it more adeniline baced then it would be good too. Like he said adreniline for the melee, and energy for the ranged

Rikimaru · Jul 16, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

I Suppose having just the melee attacks use adrenaline is a decent idea, especially since reset times can be appleid with them, so I can work that in to a couple so that the primary attribute will still have a decent amount of value. You could build up adrenaline at range, then unleash it in melee. Or build it up in melee, since it charges faster that way with the faster attack speed. I'l make those changes later.

unholy guardian · Jul 16, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

well here's a skill idea, and it would look cool too, bascially it would be both a range and melee gaive attack

Launching Ariel Slash-elite-(5 energy 10 second recharge)-Throw your gaive at target foe to deal +5-25 and then rush at your foe to strike target afterwards with your gaive for +6-21 damage, if either miss this skill takes an additonal 6 seconds to recharge and you are knockded down.

Rikimaru · Jul 16, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

That sounds kind of cool. You mean you throw the glaive at them, leap at them, catch the glaive as it's returning while you're in the air, and slash them with it in melee when you reach them?

-Edit- Ok, I added your skill idea, it's called "Cannonade" under the Agile Maneuvers line.
I Also just added the new skill "Fabricate Slash".

actionjack · Jul 16, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

How about something like...

Deadly Spin: 10e cost, 24s reset.
Attack all enemy at melee range for X damage every 2 seconds for T seconds. You can not attack while using this skill.

Pretty much you throw your Glaive and it will orbit around you, damaging all that come nearby. You cann't attack with your regular attack, but you can still move, so making you a walking weapon. Also food for defensive purpose.

Rikimaru · Jul 16, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

That's a lot like Blade Squall, but I can add something like that as an Elite skill, I'll work on that now.

-Edit- Ok, I added an attack similar to what you said, called "Blade Gyre".

The one Casey Squid · Jul 16, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Only problrm I have is how I know that we are gonna waaaaay to many comments about this ripping off wow

Rikimaru · Jul 16, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Because of the name? This is nothing like the Rogue in WoW.

shardfenix · Jul 16, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Actually a glaive is a polearm, like a halberd. Not a 4-point shuriken