Curse

The Great Al · Jul 15, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Why do all self elem spells have to be enchantments? Armor of mist, which is a running spell, and (argh, forgot the name of the air one) can both be made into stances. Why can warriors run without having to worry about the running skills being removed? Why can mesmers have loads of stances that can't be removed? Mist form also seems like it would be worthy of a stance. Also, this is probably asking for too much, but maybe the earth elementalist line would actually be used the way it was supposed to be if armor of earth and kinetic armor were stances. The way it currently is, it is near impossible to be an effective earth elementalist if there is one mesmer floating around. I hate having to stand in the back and spam 'stoning' until the mesmers are dead. Either those spells should be unstrippable, or stances should be able to be removed.

Ira Blinks · Jul 15, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

attunements, swirling/magnetic aura, etc.

TadaceAce · Jul 15, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Making things like the attunements skills would be a great buff for pve eles. Burning speed a skill ftw! Kinetic armor and armor of earth as skills would be overpowered, I'm not gonna lie there

/signed

Windborne has to stay enchantment cause its target ally.

MAKE ATTUNEMENTS SKILLS!

Imagine earth ele tanks using unstrippable armor of earth and kinetic armor, that would be sick.

Oh and by skills I mean insta skills like crit eye (new mechanic in factions?)

The Great Al · Jul 15, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

It'd be nice if at least Armor of Earth would be unstrippable.

I mean honestly, I look at a skill like Mantra of Resolve and think, "if that was for an elementalist primary, it'd be an enchantment!"

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 15, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Wild Blow = Death of your new stances.

The Great Al · Jul 15, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

i would much rather take my chances against wild blow than a mesmer or necromancer. The Earth armor spells are a problem either way.

Ristaron · Jul 15, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

I /sign wholeheartedly for attunements becoming SKILLS. It MAKES SENSE that way. Being more proficient in a certain type of magic isn't something you can enchant yourself with, it's something you learn. Thus having the attunements be enchantments is kind of like saying the Gods ZAP you with the knowledge you need to use a certain type of magic more efficiently.
Then there's Elemental Attunement...

Tongloid Tarthwood · Jul 15, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Well, you said that you wished stances were stripable, and they are ,with wild blow.

But, I'm going to assume that you meant that you don't want mesmers to be able to stop you. Man, you really havn't got a clue. The mesmer is described as the way to shut down casters. If suddenly all your spells are UB3R and mesmer-proof, then won't they want them nerfed?

But then, there are probably more eles than mesmers, to stop it being changed back. And then, following your example, warriors will start to ask for some skills that aren't affected by hexes or conditions. There are quite a few warriors, so A-net would have to oblige because they did with you. Suddenly everyone plays a warrior because warrior shutdown doesn't work any more, thus warriors are unstopable.

Nobody is playing any other proffesion in pvp and it's all your fault. How does that make you feel.

Dr Strangelove · Jul 15, 2006, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Nah, I think they're mostly ok. Attunements are a waste in high end GvG because of stripping, but in low end PvP and PvE where only moderate stripping exists and good ele learns to cover his enchants with aura of restoration.

Seriously guys, it has a 10 second recharge for a reason.

frojack · Jul 15, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Nah, I think they're mostly ok. Attunements are a waste in high end GvG because of stripping, but in low end PvP and PvE where only moderate stripping exists and good ele learns to cover his enchants with aura of restoration.

Seriously guys, it has a 10 second recharge for a reason.

A good point made stronger by the fact that Aura of Rest. actually has half that recharge now (thanks to an update). However with all the new enchantment hate going around, and some buffs to old ones (Chillblains) I really think it might be a good idea to try them out as stances. May or may not work. Also a lot of removals can kill more than one enchantment anyways.

samifly · Jul 15, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

stances dont stack...

The Great Al · Jul 15, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tongloid Tarthwood

Well, you said that you wished stances were stripable, and they are ,with wild blow.

But, I'm going to assume that you meant that you don't want mesmers to be able to stop you. Man, you really havn't got a clue. The mesmer is described as the way to shut down casters. If suddenly all your spells are UB3R and mesmer-proof, then won't they want them nerfed?

But then, there are probably more eles than mesmers, to stop it being changed back. And then, following your example, warriors will start to ask for some skills that aren't affected by hexes or conditions. There are quite a few warriors, so A-net would have to oblige because they did with you. Suddenly everyone plays a warrior because warrior shutdown doesn't work any more, thus warriors are unstopable.

Nobody is playing any other proffesion in pvp and it's all your fault. How does that make you feel.

Wow, this is probably the worst attempt I have seen at bashing. Chill out. Maybe you forgot the fact that not only do both mesmers and necros have enchantment stripping, but they both work fine as SECONDARIES. ANY profession can have enchant strips in their build; my elementalist has one! Wild blow is something that only tanks, and maybe assassins, will ever take, because it involves actually hitting your opponent. Especially if I am a water elementalist, or there is one in the party, I am not hit very often by tanks or assassins.

This is the main reason I hate the idea of a second profession. I am fine with the idea of mesmers being the profession to shut down casters. However, EVERY OTHER PRIMARY PROFESSION can just as easily shut down casters if they take /Me or /N, especially with enchant stripping. There's nothing really wrong with mesmers being able to strip my enchants, but you are missing the point - enchant stripping is not part of the primary attribute; any profession, including tanks, can strip casters. It is not at all the same with stances; stances will only be broken by other tanks, or possibly assassins, unless there is another stance breaker that i am missing. Water elementalists are supposed to be anti-tank? Then give us a stance breaker. My point is, elemental enchantments are too easily stripped and able to be stripped by anyone, while stances are not.

BahamutKaiser · Jul 15, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I agree that alot more elementist buffs need to be skills or stances.

There are some things to take account for though, first is stances arn't stackable, so if you make most of them stances they woln't stack. Second stances woln't trigger the added energy on Energy Renewal, having several enchantment skills boost particular skills like this. Third is that stances can be broken as well, but stance breaking skills suck and are rarely used, most stances used by other classes are evasive so using a stance break attack usually misses. (On a personal note, stance breaking skills should always break stance, I believe). Lastly, Skill boost are better, they cannot be removed at all.

Skills like Troll Urgent and Critical Eyes cannot be removed, they can only be interrupted or disabled. Ideally, I think attunment skills should be Skills, Elementist basicly need attunments to function normally, their skills can deplete maximum energy quickly, and compared to Rangers expertise, energy storage + attunment is still less effective. With such long recast times and high neccessity, attunement should not be removable. Some defensive techniques for Elementist should be stances, Swirling Aura, Magnetic Aura and Armor of Earth should all be stances, it may dampen the effectiveness of Energy Renewal users, but they already made that inneffective.

I think enchantment stripping is a shutdown Elementist shouldn't have to worry about, honestly, they have some of the longest attack spell cast times, and interruption is very easy, as well as several powerful shutdowns, it is easy enough to destroy their energy, set up backfires, and use an entire class of interrupts to keep them from attacking at all, they should not need to worry about their energy management being stripped.

The Great Al · Jul 15, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Troll ungent was actually one of the skills that first gave me this idea. Why shouldn't that be strippable???

samifly · Jul 16, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Troll, Critical Eye, Rit Lord, Endure/Defy Pain are all non-strippable skills.

Troll isnt strippable because its so laughable to interrupt.

I think stuff like Armor of Earth would be overpowered if they were not enchants though.

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 16, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Not really, it be more easier to strip due to warriors/assassins bringing some sort of anti-stance skills now.

Goonter · Jul 16, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

There are certain enchantments that are largely useless do to the rightfully commoness of enchantment removal.
Those ones would certainly benefit from a weapon spell type buff in where the enchantment can not be stripped.
Perhaps the induction of Hard Enchantments?

The Great Al · Jul 16, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I'm not really up to date on my RPG knowledge, is an 'attunement' the same as an 'enchantment'? If not, then there should be elemental spells are that are attunements and not enchantments, and if mesmers really are 'anti casters', then they should have a primary skill that can strip attunements. If they are the same, then forget I posted this

Ristaron · Jul 16, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

I agree that alot more elementist buffs need to be skills or stances.

There are some things to take account for though, first is stances arn't stackable, so if you make most of them stances they woln't stack. Second stances woln't trigger the added energy on Energy Renewal, having several enchantment skills boost particular skills like this. Third is that stances can be broken as well, but stance breaking skills suck and are rarely used, most stances used by other classes are evasive so using a stance break attack usually misses. (On a personal note, stance breaking skills should always break stance, I believe). Lastly, Skill boost are better, they cannot be removed at all.

Skills like Troll Urgent and Critical Eyes cannot be removed, they can only be interrupted or disabled. Ideally, I think attunment skills should be Skills, Elementist basicly need attunments to function normally, their skills can deplete maximum energy quickly, and compared to Rangers expertise, energy storage + attunment is still less effective. With such long recast times and high neccessity, attunement should not be removable. Some defensive techniques for Elementist should be stances, Swirling Aura, Magnetic Aura and Armor of Earth should all be stances, it may dampen the effectiveness of Energy Renewal users, but they already made that inneffective.

I think enchantment stripping is a shutdown Elementist shouldn't have to worry about, honestly, they have some of the longest attack spell cast times, and interruption is very easy, as well as several powerful shutdowns, it is easy enough to destroy their energy, set up backfires, and use an entire class of interrupts to keep them from attacking at all, they should not need to worry about their energy management being stripped.

Quoted for being 110% truth, and the best written version of our argument so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Nah, I think they're mostly ok. Attunements are a waste in high end GvG because of stripping, but in low end PvP and PvE where only moderate stripping exists and good ele learns to cover his enchants with aura of restoration.

Seriously guys, it has a 10 second recharge for a reason.

I always cover my attunements with aura of restoration, the problem is that it's an Energy Storage skill and therefore does not trigger any attunements, taking away a chunk of your already precious energy (which has already been described as in greater demand than a ranger's). This lowers my effectiveness by a fair amount (especially when I have to 'throw away' that slot on my 8-slot skill bar).
Oh, and you have more time to recover energy in GvG (don't dismiss me, I play GvG too), as half the time you're positioning yourself (ESPECIALLY in high end GvG) for maximum efficiency in combat. This reduces the need for attunements, a luxury people who do all other manners of PvP are not blessed with.
Elementalists have been hit constantly by ANet's nerf bat, it's high time they got something back.

TadaceAce · Jul 16, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

They are not going to be stances... wtf good would that be you can't go dual attunement if they are stances. They would be SKILLS like crit eye and rit lord.

This wouldn't effect pvp jack, you would see more eles in low end pvp (where attunements never got stripped anyway). Ether prodigy would still be used over dual attunements in GvG and HA for obvious reasons. What it would effect is PvE where eles need a buff. This is a really good idea and Anet should give it some serious thought.

Update July 23: Attunement spells are no longer enchantments. They are now skills.