Curse

shardfenix · Jul 17, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Other than being incredibly broken (which is not the problem with it)...

Choking gas goes through walls and block/evade. It should only spread choking gas if the target is hit.

Undivine · Jul 17, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Seems like it kinda makes sense to me, execpt the part about going through walls. It's a gas. It spreads. You can't block or evade that. Try it next time your dog farts.

Arcador · Jul 17, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

That is it's strenght - comming threw the guardian, stances and the other stuff.

ilovecp · Jul 17, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

For 1...10 seconds, your arrows deal 1...7 more damage and spread Choking Gas to all adjacent foes on impact.

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. Either fix it or change the wording.

dargon · Jul 17, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Uhh guys, Impact doesn't mean hit player, it means hit something. Blocked items impact a player (and do no damage), evaded items impact with the ground.

Lowly Peasant · Jul 17, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Another problem is that the extra damage doesn't always work. If you hit a high level enemy with it, it will do less damage than the skill says. Does this mean that CG adds elemental damage or physical? Because by the skill description, it looks like unconditional damage.

Stockholm · Jul 17, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Arrow= physical damage(so any shield or abs rune will reduce the damage), and the gas will spread from point of impact, may it be target or shild or even from groundimpact

Rogmar · Jul 17, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

When a skill adds damage, it doesn't take the damage of it's weapon unless it coincidentally adds the same damage, like wielding a fire weapon and using kindle etc. When the skill just adds damage it adds usually armor ignoring damage, like distracting shot. When I was a low level ranger trying to get to Grotto, I had to fight Mursaat, when I used attack skills, i would do lower damage than a 14 Damage distracting shot.

Siren · Jul 17, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Seems like it kinda makes sense to me, execpt the part about going through walls. It's a gas. It spreads. You can't block or evade that. Try it next time your dog farts.

Best. Reasoning. Ever.

Because now I've got this visual of my brother trying to Matrix Dodge after the family dog lets one rip.

And /unsigned, by the way

Nevin · Jul 17, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Choking Gas is by far one of the most costly preps for a Ranger... I think ignoring block/evade is balanced. Plus its gas. /unsigned /unsigned /unsigned some more.

shardfenix · Jul 18, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

please read what i said again. I didnt say it was against the flavor of it being a "gas" to go through walls and block/evade. I said it needs to be fixed. It says it spreads choking gas ON IMPACT, blocking and evading is not impact, neither is hitting a wall. Impact = hitting a player.

samifly · Jul 18, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Yes lets nerf another skill that hardly gets used already :s

Phoenix Arrows · Jul 18, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Actually, it's getting quite common in Heroes' Ascent to disable the Monks, and the Choking Gas Rangers usually take Seeking Arrows as well to interupt the Ghostly Hero from capping the altar.

Wolydarg · Jul 18, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

I see choking gas used all the time in halls...

I understand how a block/evade would still logically trigger choking gas, but if you were standing behind a wall, your arrow hits the wall, the choking gas on the arrow still stays with the arrow, which is stuck to the wall, why should your target, who could be a good distance away, get interrupted?

Terra Xin · Jul 18, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

please read what i said again. I didnt say it was against the flavor of it being a "gas" to go through walls and block/evade. I said it needs to be fixed. It says it spreads choking gas ON IMPACT, blocking and evading is not impact, neither is hitting a wall. Impact = hitting a player.

You have to understand that this is the only skill that uses the word impact, because of this, it is impossible to make the assumption that impact is relative to striking or hitting a player successfully. It's not as though the arrow is smart enough to determine when to spread gas if it suddenly hits a shield, or misses and hits the ground. As long as it hits something, then whatever was concealed in the arrow will be broken, and the gas contained inside will break out.

If there are any changes that would be made to the skill, it should be its actual use in battle. If it hits the wall (and your target was on the other side) then the gas would spread to areas adjacent to that wall, and anyone standing right next to the wall would get interrupted. Your target however, would be shielded from both the gas and the arrow.

Thom · Jul 18, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Do you really understand the purpose of rangers in guild wars, Shardfenix? Interruption is a primary function of a bow character and this preparation is an expensive way to avoid cheap dodges and enchants. Like any AoE it is easily mitigated by good spacing, movement and quick casting heals.

Zui · Jul 18, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Shard, since you've added this to your "Must nerf" list, I'm sure ANET will get around to it at the same time they nerf OOA, and Knockdown, because according to you those are also way overpowered... Perhaps Otyugh's Cry should be added to your list as well, as we all know that's WAY overpowered, especialy in PvE!

shardfenix · Jul 18, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Do you really understand the purpose of rangers in guild wars, Shardfenix? Interruption is a primary function of a bow character and this preparation is an expensive way to avoid cheap dodges and enchants. Like any AoE it is easily mitigated by good spacing, movement and quick casting heals.

Rangers are for many things, one of which is heavy interrupting. Unconditional shutdown belongs on mesmers, not rangers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Shard, since you've added this to your "Must nerf" list, I'm sure ANET will get around to it at the same time they nerf OOA, and Knockdown, because according to you those are also way overpowered... Perhaps Otyugh's Cry should be added to your list as well, as we all know that's WAY overpowered, especialy in PvE!

Knockdown isn't broken. Just hammer damage.

I'm sorry that you don't have much experience in games that are actually balanced. Before criticizing my opinions, please ask around for people who have played MtG, or D&D. Anyone who is a veteran of either of those would look at Guild Wars and laugh.

I come from a gaming background where all players can increase their chances of winning based on skill, not based on a popular deck or build. I am used to games that encourage players to make new ways of winning, or invent different tactics to make their resources more useful, rather than making a cookie cutter build that wins even if your whole team is retarted. I want to see the broken skills changed because of 2 reasons.
1: So players are forced to try different things.
2: So I dont lose to morons who have no clue what they're doing. Yes I admit I can't stand losing to noobs, and I also admit at times I have played those mindless cookie cutter builds. I don't know how any of you find those builds fun. I'm not a fan of pressing 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 and winning because of it. I PvP in order to be challenged by other good players, not by idiots who have cheap, overpowered "do this, gg" builds.

I got into PvP to have fun trying things I've never done before. I know there are always gonna be people who want to win 100% of the time and only be good at one thing, but please make work for it. I can't stand getting beaten by groups with no strategy or coordination or any kind of thought process other than "oooh look, a squishy! point, click, spacebar!!!!!".

The only time I ever thought Guild Wars is fun was after the spirit spamming nerf, when the only builds were spike and balance. After iway, and more importantly Factions, Guild Wars is a joke to the term "Games of Skill." I had to rage pvp because I got thrashed by noobs running CC builds when I was trying to have a challenge (although soloing wanna be gangsta in front of his brainless monks on tv lightened my spirits a little).

Back to the topic. Try not to think about the game in terms of "its fine because arenanet made it that way." Try to think of the game as "is this too good, or too weak?"

In all the "balanced" games I play, I think about pros, cons, and counters.

Choking gas
Pros

Unconditional Shutdown of spells (longer than ½ a second) until user dies.
With practiced stance, there is 2 seconds of downtime.

Cons

uhhh...2 seconds of downtime.

Counters

Interrupt it once every 24 seconds (requires 2 standard interrupts)
Kill the ranger (requires your casters to not be shutdown by choking gas)

In a real game, there would be one pro more than the number of cons there are, with reasonable counters. Choking gas needs to be stoppable by block/evade, or walls, or both.

To whoever said that we cannot assume what "impact" means, buy a dictionary. Even if it means "impact player or wall," blocking and evading should still stop it.

Former Ruling · Jul 18, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Before criticizing my opinions, please ask around for people who have played MtG...

This made me laugh, as an old time player of TCGs...

MtG is Balanced because it has to Ban Half of its decent cards lol. Then every format still has the one deck type that WTFPWNS everything else.

Same with Yugioh, the other big TCG.

shardfenix · Jul 18, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

This made me laugh, as an old time player of TCGs...

MtG is Balanced because it has to Ban Half of its decent cards lol. Then every format still has the one deck type that WTFPWNS everything else.

Same with Yugioh, the other big TCG.

True about the bannings in magic. Let me clarify.

For those who have ever played extended or type 2 tournaments, there are about 4-5 deck styles that wtfpwn everything else, but they also wtfpwn each other. Even the strongest cards in mtg have a hundred counters. I haven't played mtg in awhile but I think there are only 2 cards out of around 2000 on the extended ban list, and 6 on the restricted list. Not even .2% of their cards are touched. About 10% of the skills in guild wars are rediculously overpowered, and half of them are uselessly unplayable.