Curse

Nevin · Apr 24, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

a little wee bit overpowered from all that ive read so far (i havent finished all skills but you got a good selection there...

) but all that stat conditions + fragility and fevered dreams = AOE + HIGH DMG... not good to abusable, might wanna just got with 2 snake bite skills for cripple and bleed. give them an "x" factor (as ppl like to say to my prof)... too necromancer death magic close but yes there are a lot of new ideas here that are good, just shift off the necromancer a bit, demons are borderline but corpse feeding is too much like soul feast n stuff you should make it new IMO.

i have a problem with all these skills as well. glyphs are ELE ONLY PROFESSION. NO OTHERS. SO ARE WARDS its their unique skills! do u see any other caster with them? no. leave it at that. moving on, the next 2 skillsone elite and costs 50 more hp to use, ones not and you get 50hp more than the ELITE for the same energy. whats that???? blood signet should be in the unlinked attr.

The regain time with demons skills are too overpowered making them capable of staying in your control forever until they lose all their hp... fix that or make them like minions that lose hp over time... demons and stuff are a littl ebit to overpowered IMO

i dont even need an attribute POINT in this to get a great ranger with a bow summon WITH faster running speed? WHY would i invest in this if i could get a gargoyle here?

WAY to overpowered. sending 2 out would be overpowered. id make it elite and just have 10e, 2s, 7r sending one guided shadow bolt dealing 30...75 damage. that might even be hard to balance out.

im not going through all of it but thats all the things that would toss EVERYTHING off balance.

finish the skills casting time and recharge as some of them dont have this and i cant be mean about it until you write them.

ps whats with the daggers?

I fixed up the skills that you pointed out. But Blood Signet is too powerful to be a no attribute. Anyways, since when did Rangers have under 400 HP and 60 armor? :P. There are setbacks due to Summoning... The long cast times, the Energy Degen, and the sacrificing required to keep the Summon going. The dagger is kinda like the claws necros have, its just a focus item. Also the wards and glyphs, they were to emphasize that the Warlock is a wizardish wise magic user thing not some cultist.

Edit: Added and fixed skills.

pappayaponta · Apr 24, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Reminds me of WoW.. Hmm let me have a try at this.

I am just kidding...

Hope so

lightblade · Apr 24, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

I like the sound of it, but your attributes are too much like Necromancer. Warlocks/Witches are about chaos magic, which is protrayed as Mesmer already.

TheOneAndOnlyX · May 28, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

can you say necromancer?

Nevin · May 28, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneAndOnlyX

can you say necromancer?

You just love posting pointless posts eh?, once again prove your point.

I'm starting to wonder, do you even READ these concepts?

Neriandal Freit · May 28, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

You just love posting pointless posts eh?, once again prove your point.

I'm starting to wonder, do you even READ these concepts?

Like most people, no he doesn't.

I've been in favor for this class since it was posted as I like the idea, and considering that Demons where realsed basically with the realse of Cantha, it's possible.

draxynnic · May 28, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

You just love posting pointless posts eh?, once again prove your point.

I'm starting to wonder, do you even READ these concepts?

While not especially eloquent, he does have a certain point. What exactly does this profession provide that a N/Me wouldn't?

Most of the skills you've listed, balance issues aside and possibly with changes in flavour, could fit nicely into Necromancer and/or Mesmer skill lists. Heck, some of them virtually already do - for instance, while it doesn't affect pets, consider the effect of using Verata's Aura against an unsuspecting MM.

So, the main thing you seem to be pushing for that doesn't already exist is a corpseless summon - from my scan of your list, most of the rest appears to be either supporting that summon or modifications of N or Me concepts (primarily the former). So... why not take a friendly flesh golem along? Okay, it requires the first corpse to get it started, but if you stay on the ball you can keep recreating it each time it dies, and I've seen discussions of builds based around supporting the flesh golem without excessive numbers of other minions.

Alternatively, you have ranger pets - and the snake attack skills do make me think of a certain trap now in the Beastmastery line.

On your issue with minion master Necromancers always having 16 in death - well, if you're going to be carrying along ally(s) that are going to be effective components to a team, expect to make a sacrifice for it (the same, incidentally, goes to beastmasters, requiring an attribute as well as a skill slot for every skill aimed towards the companion). In my experience, having 12 in death before enhancements does actually give you enough extra points to work with - the reason MMs tend to master minions and not much else comes as much from skill crowding and the fact that building and maintaining a swarm is usually a full time job as attribute spread. If you just had a flesh golem along for the ride, you could probably afford to be more proactive yourself - and you may not need such a high Death score (10 points, a death mask, and a minor rune will give you a level 21 golem, which would probably compare well to a level 20 animal companions whose owner has 12 beastmastery, without considering use of other skills).

And that brings me to another option - taking a pet along. That's something pretty much anyone can do if they're willing to take a Ranger secondary (or primary), spend the attribute points and skillbar slots, and train a pet (admittedly, the latter is one of the forms of grind that has made its way to the final version of the game, but that's a design issue and not a class balance one). So, essentially, we already have two ways in which you can have a single, reasonably powerful ally at your side. Maybe the Necromancer could do with a couple of other Flesh Golem-esque skills to give some choice, but that's a matter of expanding an additional profession, not creating a new one.

Conceptually - I'm not sure warlock-ish demon summoning really fits into the Guild Wars mythos, although I can see parallels between the Lich's control over the Titans and a few other examples (for the record, to my knowledge, the Demon class itroduced in Factions applies to the oni, which aren't really associated with warlockism. Better targets, I expect would be the Titans and the enemies in Fissure and the Underworld). One could see them as followers of Menzies and/or Grenth's enemy in the Underworld, but while interesting conceptually this does raise the question of why characters following the regular Gods would want to associate with them. Okay, yes, there is rivalry between the five, but that seems more more like the equivalent of disputes over jurisdiction than outright warfare.

That said, similar comments could be made about warlocks in WoW - I always wondered how they could get away with walking down the street with a demon at their heel... however, that said, part of my reason for avoiding WoW is that I don't like whay they did with the story (that and the monthly fee...

).

Nevin · May 28, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

While not especially eloquent, he does have a certain point. What exactly does this profession provide that a N/Me wouldn't?

Most of the skills you've listed, balance issues aside and possibly with changes in flavour, could fit nicely into Necromancer and/or Mesmer skill lists. Heck, some of them virtually already do - for instance, while it doesn't affect pets, consider the effect of using Verata's Aura against an unsuspecting MM.

So, the main thing you seem to be pushing for that doesn't already exist is a corpseless summon - from my scan of your list, most of the rest appears to be either supporting that summon or modifications of N or Me concepts (primarily the former). So... why not take a friendly flesh golem along? Okay, it requires the first corpse to get it started, but if you stay on the ball you can keep recreating it each time it dies, and I've seen discussions of builds based around supporting the flesh golem without excessive numbers of other minions.

Alternatively, you have ranger pets - and the snake attack skills do make me think of a certain trap now in the Beastmastery line.

On your issue with minion master Necromancers always having 16 in death - well, if you're going to be carrying along ally(s) that are going to be effective components to a team, expect to make a sacrifice for it (the same, incidentally, goes to beastmasters, requiring an attribute as well as a skill slot for every skill aimed towards the companion). In my experience, having 12 in death before enhancements does actually give you enough extra points to work with - the reason MMs tend to master minions and not much else comes as much from skill crowding and the fact that building and maintaining a swarm is usually a full time job as attribute spread. If you just had a flesh golem along for the ride, you could probably afford to be more proactive yourself - and you may not need such a high Death score (10 points, a death mask, and a minor rune will give you a level 21 golem, which would probably compare well to a level 20 animal companions whose owner has 12 beastmastery, without considering use of other skills).

And that brings me to another option - taking a pet along. That's something pretty much anyone can do if they're willing to take a Ranger secondary (or primary), spend the attribute points and skillbar slots, and train a pet (admittedly, the latter is one of the forms of grind that has made its way to the final version of the game, but that's a design issue and not a class balance one). So, essentially, we already have two ways in which you can have a single, reasonably powerful ally at your side. Maybe the Necromancer could do with a couple of other Flesh Golem-esque skills to give some choice, but that's a matter of expanding an additional profession, not creating a new one.

Conceptually - I'm not sure warlock-ish demon summoning really fits into the Guild Wars mythos, although I can see parallels between the Lich's control over the Titans and a few other examples (for the record, to my knowledge, the Demon class itroduced in Factions applies to the oni, which aren't really associated with warlockism. Better targets, I expect would be the Titans and the enemies in Fissure and the Underworld). One could see them as followers of Menzies and/or Grenth's enemy in the Underworld, but while interesting conceptually this does raise the question of why characters following the regular Gods would want to associate with them. Okay, yes, there is rivalry between the five, but that seems more more like the equivalent of disputes over jurisdiction than outright warfare.

That said, similar comments could be made about warlocks in WoW - I always wondered how they could get away with walking down the street with a demon at their heel... however, that said, part of my reason for avoiding WoW is that I don't like whay they did with the story (that and the monthly fee...

).

This concept was created months before Factions was released, relevance to skills now do not apply.

Gucio · May 28, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

WoW, nice job

I always wanted to have a warlock in GW

Neriandal Freit · May 29, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Oh, and think about it this way. If the Ritualist is thought as of a mixture of Necromancer and Monk, why couldn't a player have acess (and some form of uniqueness naturally) of Mesmer and Necromancer?

I'm sure we'll see the Warlock eventually in the world of Guildwars, we're bound to.

draxynnic · May 29, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

This concept was created months before Factions was released, relevance to skills now do not apply.

*checks original post date* Fair enough. So at the time of posting it was providing something different. However, my general point does still stand - that the capability can be provided by adding new skills to an existing profession instead of making a completely new profession.

And, incidentally, the

smiley apparantly gets priority over the

smiley...

On the Ritualist - the justification of the Ritualist, in my mind, is that the Ritualist does things in a different way - yes, it can be seen as a combination of the Monk and Necromancer (although I'd say the necromancer part mainly comes from the 'messing with the dead' flavour rather than actual skills) but they do it via spirits and so on - a Ritualist can function without spirits, yes, but is generally not reaching their full potential without them. This results in a different playing style than a Monk/Necromancer.

(Incidentally, I'd probably describe them more as a combination of a Monk with a specialist Warder in their capabilities on the field.)

Nevin · May 29, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

*checks original post date* Fair enough. So at the time of posting it was providing something different. However, my general point does still stand - that the capability can be provided by adding new skills to an existing profession instead of making a completely new profession.

And, incidentally, the

smiley apparantly gets priority over the

smiley...

On the Ritualist - the justification of the Ritualist, in my mind, is that the Ritualist does things in a different way - yes, it can be seen as a combination of the Monk and Necromancer (although I'd say the necromancer part mainly comes from the 'messing with the dead' flavour rather than actual skills) but they do it via spirits and so on - a Ritualist can function without spirits, yes, but is generally not reaching their full potential without them. This results in a different playing style than a Monk/Necromancer.

(Incidentally, I'd probably describe them more as a combination of a Monk with a specialist Warder in their capabilities on the field.)

I'll weigh down the basic differences and similiarities...

Necromancer(Not necisarly evil/undead)
-Summons off dead corpses
-10 minions at a time
-Gains energy from creatures dying
-Blood Magic (Dealing damage + Healing)

Warlock(Evil/Demons)
-Ability to summon and maintain summon (New Mechanic: Summon)
-1 summon at a time
-Gains health from creatures dying
-Has the ability to possess a player (New Mechanic: Possession)
-Shadow Magic (Spell combos that interlink well)
-Many spells that offer "Crowd control"

Similarties
-The wards are similiar to wells
-Possession and Curses have some similiar cause/effects
-They both gain from creatuers dying

Over all.. If warlocks were made up of existing classes it'd probably be. Necromancer/Elementalist/Ritualist. Ritualists are able to heal, deal damage, and they summoned spirits. In theory a ritualists literally is a combo with a new twist, thus as well is the warlock.

Verlas Ho'Esta · May 29, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Meh. I like the "Hollow" concept class better than this one. Your original write-up makes him sound like a mesmer/necro/ritualist/assassin. That's way too thin to spread one class. Narrow it down. You've got a theme, and that's good, but now specialize it a little more.

Neriandal Freit · May 29, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Which came first, the Warlock or the Hollow? :P

curtman · Jun 27, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Warlock:
Summoning (Primary):
Decreases the energy cost and cast time required to summon a demon. (Each demon is summoned via skill which must be equipped to summon it. Only one demon can be active.)
Demonology:
Increase the damage and effectiveness of the summoned demon and demon skills.
Drain:
Skills which drain health or energy from foes and give to player, allow the player to give energy or health to an ally, allow the player to give/drain health to/from summoned demon.
Chaos:
Chaos attribute direct and area of effect damage spells.
Hexes:
Negative effect to be placed foes.

Demon types:
Tank, Assassin, Vampire, healer, mesmer, and Ranged.

This looks pretty balanced to me.

Nevin · Jul 22, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Revamped quite a bit of it, added and tweeked skills.

Rikimaru · Jul 22, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

You don't have many of those wardlike skills, and they could be really cool in my oppinion, so here's some suggestions:

Enervating Rift: 10e cost, 3s cast, 30s reset.
Ward. Any foes that enter the area of effect recieve -1 energy degeneration, which you recieve as regeneration. This lasts for 5...15 seconds.

Un-Hallowed Soil (E): 10e cost, 3s cast, 30s reset.
Ward. If 10...5 people die in the area of effect before the ward disappears, all of your Demon summons are recharged, and any time someone dies in it your summoned demon has 1...5 seconds added to it's duration. This lasts for 15 seconds.

And I think you should add an Oni summon.

Nevin · Jul 22, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Added Rikumaru's skills along with tweeking some more.

actionjack · Jul 23, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Its very good, I like.
The organization is nice, and I like the arrangement of attributes. Unique enough.

Please list some possible builds and how to play them. (since I don't read into too much detail on the skills, it would help me/people to look them up more)

Also you fogot you Bold your Taint

In a similar CC, I was trying to expand on the Demon Summon with Pentagon, which I think come out with a interesting system. Instead of directly summong a Demon from the Pentagon, when the spell if first cast, it will just create a Pentagon on the ground. As it "soke up blood", a demon is summon. This means that the pentagon will detect how much damage were done to all creature near its radius. So if the skill require 300blood, it means that 300 hp (total, from any creature) of damage must be delt before the summon. Once so, a gate is a Open, and a demon step out. This make Sacrifising skill have addtional use when use with a Warlock.

Another suggestion made by other is to have the demon come throught a Gate. The Demon it self would be tought, powerful, and hard to kill, but could try to take out the Gate, which will kill the demon.

Well, hope here more nice CC from you, and some idea of Warlock builds would be nice.