Curse

RTSFirebat · Jun 28, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov

Something must be done to touch rangers, if they are underpowered like all you touch rangers above say they are, then why is 60-70% of alliance battle players touch rangers? Alliance battles have become Touch Ranger battles, it sucks.

Come now, I'm not sure what time you play on, but while I do see Touch Rangers (Me included sometimes), its not where near that many... normally I see a team of 4 Touch rangers at most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov

I think being able to stop those attacks with blind is a great idea, if a warrior cant hit you with a big fat hammer, sword, or axe when right in front of players then i think the same should be done to them.

In the short term, I think this idea you gave is the best, if a Touch Ranger is blinded, their Touch skills should simply miss till the effect goes away... or at least make them miss 75% of the time.

Turbobusa · Jun 28, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

what about vampiric gaze and healing touch when blinded?
if you wanna be logical, then you should nerf them with many other skills.
that's not only a touch ranger nerf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigried

hem cuz if they do they will nefed the necro class

well, as a necromancer, you won't run with this
15e is just too much for the damage output, same as life stealing. vampiric gaze does~ the same, 10e.
nerf it, it's useless for necromancers imo

The Real Roy Keane · Jun 28, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov

/signed

Something must be done to touch rangers, if they are underpowered like all you touch rangers above say they are, then why is 60-70% of alliance battle players touch rangers? Alliance battles have become Touch Ranger battles, it sucks.

They must all think they have advantage or there wouldnt be so god dam many of em.

Because at least 60-70% of Alliance Battle players wouldn't know a good PvP build if it hit them in the back with Eviscerate. How many times does it have to be stated that there is nothing overpowered about touch Rangers? Gale Warriors, Cripshot Rangers, OoB Boon Monks- these were overpowered builds, but only just, and only when they worked together. The touch Ranger doesn't fit particularly well into any team build and only finds its niche in 'casual' PvP areas such as RA, where it's possible to succeed with self sufficient but unspecialised builds. In fact, should the damage dealt by Touch and Bite be raised slighly, say by five damage or so, the build still wouldn't be anywhere near nerf-worthy.
Seriously people, give it a rest.

Curse You · Jun 29, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

I made a PvP mesmer specialising in Domination Magic. I brought Diversion. I watched the touch ranger use Vampiric Touch with Diversion on them. I watched them despiraty use only Vampiric Bite. I used Diversion again and watched the Touch Ranger try to run away. I looked at a dead touch ranger and laughed.

Dark Suoon · Jun 29, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

nerf em if u like but they arent very good now. ppl kno how to overpower em like i do

Aiyla · Jun 29, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Although touch rangers can be defeated rather easily in strait PvP, they're extremely difficult to deal with when NPCs are involved. I'm talking about Fort Aspenwood. Touch rangers can take out a gate in seconds, and no one can do anything about it. The NPCs don't run away like people would, they just stand there and get owned. Very little anyone can do about this. It's bad enough that the Luxons already have their overpowered seige turtles while the Kurzicks are stuck with their can't-kill-an-NPC-warrior juggernauts. I don't have a proposed solution to this, but it is a problem. Why ANet thought they needed to duplicate skills, I'll never know.

LifeInfusion · Jun 29, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

As long as necros arent "touched" (no pun intended), nerf away. Because when the actual profession can't use their skills effectively, we have a problem.

If anything they should just be spells with touch range.

primal98 · Jun 29, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I tried one... it was ok... nothign special. I played a few in alliance battles, and really my ele had no issues dealign with them. I can see at times they can be useful... but I see no reason too nerf? Why must we try and nerf every single build that is halfway decent? In the end we will be left with builds that take an absolute master to be able to play :P

~prime

unholy guardian · Jun 29, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

As long as necros arent "touched" (no pun intended), nerf away. Because when the actual profession can't use their skills effectively, we have a problem.

If anything they should just be spells with touch range.

i agree... i can see classes being able to do things differently than the main profession, but when it is like this... no necro uses vamparic bite... but a touch ranger can use it like it is nothing.

I'm very up for things like and iw mesmer using flurry, because it's being used differntly than the warrior, but the warrior still uses it well.

For a necro to use vamparic bite you waste 15 energy, do it a couple times and you are drained... a touch ranger can use it all day long practically, it's such a bad imbalance of where blood magic is being used better by another class, a non caster class too. It's like before twisting fangs was moved to critical strikes... rangers did like everything better than the assassin could ever do, and to boot they still have better survivability than an assassin.

I'm not saying rangers should have to stick to bows... but i don't think they should be doing something sooooo much better than the profession is comes from.

prism2525 · Jun 29, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Oh come on! Just bombard a touchie immediately and interrupt the others' res sigs. If they manage to res him, bombard again. Even touchies can't cope with 4 ppl whooping his ass at a time. They usually take one target at a time. Maybe some manage 2, but 4??

aeronox · Jun 29, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

I tried one... it was ok... nothign special. I played a few in alliance battles, and really my ele had no issues dealign with them. I can see at times they can be useful... but I see no reason too nerf? Why must we try and nerf every single build that is halfway decent? In the end we will be left with builds that take an absolute master to be able to play :P

~prime

The reason I play GW is that it's tough to pull off even mildly effective builds. With the exception of cookie-cutter "Press C, Press Skill1 Skill2 Skill3, Repeat".

The Touch Ranger epidemic is mostly an AB issue, to those saying "we pwned touchies in HA/GvG". I love playing mesmer, but no amount of degen and/or shutdown will be able to handle the flood of Touch Rangers there. I can divert a skill or two on 1 or 2 touchers, but there's still 6+ others in a typical battle that I can't disable.

Making the skills into "Spells" with touch range makes sense - healing touch and blood ritual are such skill types (albeit for allies).

Juicey Shake · Jun 29, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Right, nerf this-- and that, because we can't figure out how to counter it! If there are too many touchers in 12v12, oh, I don't know.. roll a cripshot?... They have no independant self-heal, so disable their movement and it's gg.

aeronox · Jun 29, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Plague Touch is pretty effective, and brought specifically for Cripple. With 12 foes + NPCs + Minions, there's no shortage of adjacent targets to transfer the condition.

Guild Wars should encourage diversity and skill. What is diverse or skillful about this build?

RTSFirebat · Jun 29, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeronox

Guild Wars should encourage diversity and skill. What is diverse or skillful about this build?

Yes becuase IWAY fame farming is very diverse and skillful

Undivine · Jun 29, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Yes becuase IWAY fame farming is very diverse and skillful

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Curse You · Jun 29, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

I tried one... it was ok... nothign special. I played a few in alliance battles, and really my ele had no issues dealign with them. I can see at times they can be useful... but I see no reason too nerf? Why must we try and nerf every single build that is halfway decent? In the end we will be left with builds that take an absolute master to be able to play :P

~prime

About changing them to Spells, no, no way at all. I use a necro primarily, and I like to bring Vampiric Touch. It's one of the few skills that works on things using Spell Breaker (because it's a skill) and it goes through most protections (convienient to end a long battle). Just changing it to a spell would defeat its use. Vampiric Gaze is the spell counterpart.

Here's two reasonable aproaches:

1. Change expertise. Make it so that it does not affect skills from other professions (except attack skills). This way rangers are limited to what they can reduce the cost of.

2. Learn how to counter the build. Figure out builds that can easily take them out. If you can make a single person build able to kill one, then touch rangers have become less useful.

One more thing. Can anyone tell me ONE ranger skill that is NOT affected by Expertise?

Gargle Blaster · Jun 30, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

killing the build is reasonable? how about yall read the first post for a reasonable buff/nerf...

Cirian · Jun 30, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

One more thing. Can anyone tell me ONE ranger skill that is NOT affected by Expertise?

Antidote Signet

markus_thom · Jun 30, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

They're not over powered though... Cripple + Degen and they're dead before they know it.

I think your missing the point, what you just mentioned works on anything that is melee based or needs to get close to attack.

But yeah it would make sense if touch rangers when blinded missed, it does Make sense and every other character has to put up with the condition.

GOD dang it dont nerf expertise I dont like nerfing which takes away expertise meaning less combanations of builds, if anything add more effective counters.

ANOTHER IDEA!!!!!

Or just another use for a monk skill.

I THINK THAT THEY could buff THE MOVE SCOURGE HEALING To damage RANGERS when using SELF HEAL touch skills, If you read the description it does mention it does holy damage when healed, not to sure of exact definition of skill.

But It would work lol.

samifly · Jun 30, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

What, exactly, would be the point of touch skills, if they dont work blinded. Blackout would be useless, and especially Plauge touch.