Curse

Priest Of Sin · Jun 21, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

touch skills= touch spells. GG. :P

Xx Invictus xX · Jun 21, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

for anyone who thinks vampiric touch & bite should be spells, then check out Cultist's Fervor ...
This would be a huge buff to Primary Necro's add Kinetic armor and steal away!...
So we can have touch necros that can steal even more life from you... not saying people say this i just don't want to read all the pages

edit: link was inproper

if i went Necro/Mesmer then i will arcane echo vamp gaze as well!!! that'd be fun

clarianaeneas · Jun 21, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

umm....no.

Like others said before, the skills are fine the way they are, and nerfing expertise would destroy rangers. In case you forgot rangers use expertise for other things such as traps, spirits, etc, not just attacks. Most ranger attacks are 5-10 energy anyways, so restricting expertise to attacks makes the whole primary attribute useless.

Kyle The Piemaster · Jun 21, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Argh!! Those darn touch rangers have taken over GW with their hugely overpowered abilities...err, wait, they're only good against RA players that probably don't even realize that you can RUN AWAY when someone is going after you

Evilsod · Jun 21, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

I don't use Ritual Lord, Shelter, or Union, thank you very much. I read the skill listings and make my own builds, not copy the FOTM. Every gladiator point I earn comes with the pride of knowing I designed what works best for me.

So its a FOTM build now is it? Now let me see... Binding Rituals have incredibly annoying recharge times... some of them would definatly be beneficial to have up often... i have an elite that decreases recharge times of them by ~65%

Now let me think? Oh i know! *brings Soul Twisting*

All i can say is bullshit... i never even realised that was a FOTM build until now and i've been waiting to get hold of that elite since i made my Ritualist, a build that is so incredibly obvious isn't copied. We're not talking IWAY here that *was* a well designed build, this is merely bleeding obvious.

The only thing i dislike about the Touch Rangers is the fact they're taking advantage of the utterly stupid clone skills. Its bad enough on my runner who drops all Wilderness Survival and just goes around with Escape, Dodge and Zojun's Haste.

Invictus... i think your missing the point. A Primary necro can't keep spamming Vamp Touch/Bite long at all, Expertise dulls the blow nicely and gives the ranger links to the best evasive stances in the game.

Skuld · Jun 21, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

touch skills= touch spells. GG. :P

they used to be spells.. that aint gonna happen

Centrius · Jun 21, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Touch rangers dont bother me that much since I play necro in pvp and I bring degen spells.

Dragonious · Jun 22, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

touches are what they are: touches....not attacks....if ANET does nerf the expertise usage of these skills...they will classify all touch skills (including blackout and shock etc.) into the classification of touch skills. troll unguent, throw dirt, and a few others are regular skills that are meant to be used when needed so they do belong in skills so i can not see anything done about that...but come on guys...bring a snare....not overpowered

Blaster The Warrior · Jun 22, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

nah its fine the way it is its possible to own those touchy's and its even hard so its a challenge as long as not everyone starts being touchy its k

kvndoom · Jun 22, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

Wow, you really aren't too bright. If you are playing Random Arena, this is what you get, and what you should expect.

If you were actually interested in team play, go play Team Arena, that way you can build a team before you even enter. If I am mistaken and you are complaining about losing to touch rangers in Team Arena, then you really just need to learn to play better.

Yeah, I finally got out of RA. It really is pointless, but I wanted to get used to the build before I went to the next level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Which brings me to kvndoom: you and your team are NOT. Obviously not! You say this is all about teamwork? Where is your Trap Ranger? If you're a spirit spammer or any type of semi-stationary castor with low kiting ability then a trapper should be neck deep up your @*% as we speak with flame and spike. If one touch ranger runs off "on his own" he should be dead 10 seconds after he comes into casting range of your organised team.

If you do meet a cohesive team that charges together? Those traps still kill or at least slow them. All you need do is hide inside while they dart around; the first R/N that comes near you gets pwnt!

If you and your team are half the players you think you are then you should be mopping the floor with a 4 man touch group. You should be ready for them.

You aren't. You're set up to fight something else that is not being played as often as you'd like. Your balanced team is built around a fight that does not exist in the curent metagame.

To be blunt: your well thought out--"original"--balanced team build sucks.

Yeah, we sucked balls, didn't we? That was my first time in TA with my Rit last night. Damn, my team build is just freaking HORRIBLE. I need to stop playing. 20 wins in a row in TA the first time I tried? I am a total loser.

Minus Sign · Jun 22, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I love it when people get pissed off at me and try to prove me wrong. They always, unknowingly, prove my point.

20 consecutive wins. Commendable. But the key issue of this thread is that Touch Rangers are overpowered and prolific in TA and RA.

20 wins back to back. You do realize what you’ve told everyone here with your constant nerf cries, don’t you? 1 of 3 things has happened, or were never there to start.

1. You didn’t face Touch Rangers yesterday. 20 consecutive wins, 20 times back to back and you never faced them. That hardly sounds like a prolific build to me. If they aren’t being overused, maybe there’s a reason behind it (such as, they are easily countered…)

2. You fought them and won with your build. That you won shows that they are not the unrelenting force you have lauded about for low these several days.

3. Your Mesmers took the hint and adjusted their build, bringing the skills people have been telling them to bring for weeks now, and you as well. If so your welcome for your 20 win streak. Next time, don’t be so obnoxious in asking others for help

Whichever the case, thank you kvndoom for proving my and every other anti-nerfers point…and doing it with big flashy pictures too!

Touch Rangers are not overpowered in TA and RA, the only place where they would be. Bring your counters and stop complaining.

GG

inscribed · Jun 23, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

I love it when people get pissed off at me and try to prove me wrong. They always, unknowingly, prove my point.

20 consecutive wins. Commendable. But the key issue of this thread is that Touch Rangers are overpowered and prolific in TA and RA.

20 wins back to back. You do realize what you’ve told everyone here with your constant nerf cries, don’t you? 1 of 3 things has happened, or were never there to start.

1. You didn’t face Touch Rangers yesterday. 20 consecutive wins, 20 times back to back and you never faced them. That hardly sounds like a prolific build to me. If they aren’t being overused, maybe there’s a reason behind it (such as, they are easily countered…)

2. You fought them and won with your build. That you won shows that they are not the unrelenting force you have lauded about for low these several days.

3. Your Mesmers took the hint and adjusted their build, bringing the skills people have been telling them to bring for weeks now, and you as well. If so your welcome for your 20 win streak. Next time, don’t be so obnoxious in asking others for help

Whichever the case, thank you kvndoom for proving my and every other anti-nerfers point…and doing it with big flashy pictures too!

Touch Rangers are not overpowered in TA and RA, the only place where they would be. Bring your counters and stop complaining.

GG

Yeah, I think you pretty much won this thread. Nothing left to say.

Alcazanar · Jun 25, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Touch Rangers yes much talk about them
those who got killed by them call them noobs and
cheaters, those who use them brag about them
and when a Toucher gets killed its a big deal in the
battle field BUT Touch Rangers are not as good as
everyone thinks, its mearly a build that can SEEM
invurnable but they face much difficulties

Weakness
Knock Down
Energy
Melee Range
Face High Hp enemies
Many are Beginners
No Self Heal

Strenght
Seems to have unlimited health
Decent Spamming Damage
Can block and avoid attacks
High Elemental Defence
Using the "perfect build"
Can take out Normal Warriors with ease

and remember Mesmers Back fire and Empathy wont work
so youre wasting your energy however energy denail
and diversion can mean instant death to a Touch Ranger

So i say NO they dont need to get nerfed

and making a touch ranger is hard

achilles ankle · Jun 25, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

First off i love the touch ranger build because its new and i love watching alot of ppl get mad over a new build they cant beat with their current character/build. They should'nt be nerfed at all, all u gotta do is find a way around them. Use KD's E-denial or the other choice, run away. I notice ppl are saying they are only effective in Ra and sumtime Ta. I dont know whether ppl dont have factions or just dont participate in the faction intake, but there is a massive amount of them in Alliance Battles. Dont think they are only made by newbies to the game( dont know how that would work b/c u gotta unlock the skills and the runes) and immediatly run into Ra. They are very very very effective in AB to make ur faction to add to ur alliance/guild. I say this because i run touch ranger in AB b/c 1. Its fun because alot of ppl dont know how to counter it 2. You can get ur faction pretty fast and 3. I love watching the opposing side bash the touch ranger build instead trying to counter it. There is nothing wrong with this build, ppl just have to chill out beacuse they cant just roll over them like any other build they encounter. Just be happy ppl that they hvnt made it into HoH or any major top ranking guilds.

makosi · Jun 26, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

*Pulls hair out of head*

I bet Anerf don't like this Touch Ranger business but we all know what happens to them when they nerf something. Technically, the Touch Rangers are taking an advantage of an error in the description/functionality of expertise because it says that the energy cost of "Attack Skills, Traps and Preparations" are reduced. These touches are NOT attack skills. Do you honestly think the designers inteded for rangers to be doing something like this? They'd nerf it but they get flamed for nerfing. Where do i go for an official response to this?

RTSFirebat · Jun 26, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

*Pulls hair out of head*

I bet Anerf don't like this Touch Ranger business but we all know what happens to them when they nerf something. Technically, the Touch Rangers are taking an advantage of an error in the description/functionality of expertise because it says that the energy cost of "Attack Skills, Traps and Preparations" are reduced. These touches are NOT attack skills. Do you honestly think the designers inteded for rangers to be doing something like this? They'd nerf it but they get flamed for nerfing. Where do i go for an official response to this?

Not sure how you work that one out... a Touch skill does damage, thus it is an attack skill.

They are attack skills because they do damage to other people.

A.net already stated that experise is working as intended.

Lordhelmos · Jun 26, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

I used to hate touch rangers hardcore. Just recently I won 12 rounds in Random Arenas. It was me and my Shockwave Eletanker , A R/me interrupter, an SS/soul barbs Necro, and yes of course the toucher. We had no monk and I was the only person with healing spells in the party. As the battles progressed, I saw that the touch ranger was having it just as bad as the rest of us. She was getting pelted by cripshots, snares, the works. Luckily our necro had revealed hex. She also used plague touch to crip the warriors and get that condition off of here. Our of all the players, the toucher was the hardest to keep alive. Those matches kind of showed me that coordinating with a toucher in a heated fight proved that they aren't as cheap as people believe and yes I will say playing a good toucher takes some level of skill. Its so easy to kite away from touch attacks and every single class in the game has a snare of some sorts to stop them. I was able to obliterate enemy touch rangers with quick moves behind walls and obsidian flame. Our touch ranger hid from cripshots behind walls, retreated when overhexed, and showed there is a "correct" way to play a good toucher. People have this connotation in ther mind that a single touch ranger can wipe out an entire team by himself but this of course is untrue. There are alot of skills that prevent touchers and proper kiting can solve most of your problems. The usual noob touch rangers can be warded off just by running circles around a friendly warrior or obstacle. I don't think this build is cheap or overpowered, people are upset because the weaknesses of a touch ranger force them to change their favorite builds in order to incorporate something that can stop a toucher. Rather than complaining and moaning about a nerf, people need to learn how a touch rangers functions. Once you know the way a toucher operates and what weaknesses the build has, they really arent so bad. I will tell you that one on one in melee range, a touch ranger will eat a warrior alive. Cleave, Shove, even apply poison or sever artery are great moves against touchers if you play a war. Rangers dont have great defense against hexes and conditions like most other classes. A single life trans with a stacked conjure phantasm or imagined burden will waste one instantly.

BOTTOM LINE:
Noobs complain, better players learn how to beat this thing. Stop the touch ranger flaming and learn how they operate. This is a game of skill, just because your a warrior doesnt mean you can run up to anything and hack and slash it to death. Its that mentality thats starting all these arguements. As long as there is a leeroy who is going to rush from the other side of the arena and frenzy into my silver armor, there is always going to be people that complain about new and effective builds. Knowing what your up against and being able to use those mechanics to stategically rip apart an enemy team is what makes it in this game.

My last match in TA we faced a 4 man smite team. These guys were all Mo/R that protected themselves and sent their pets after us with zealots fire. After a long fight our team that dragged its way up the random arenas (toucher included) was ripped apart by flaming smiter dogs of death. Did we complain? No. The enemy teams build was good, solid and played well. Same can be said about touch rangers. They are not overpowered, people are just too lazy to get used to the proper stategy used to beat them. Hell, half of guildwars players don't even know what kiting is. If you just gonna be the average wammo and run up to a toucher ranger with your sword thinking your gonna win because your the "tank," well its your own fault you end up as a shriveled prune in the end.

I have never played a touch ranger, but I see them all the time in aspenwood and RA with my ele. So what, a touch ranger sneaks into the gate and kills gunther? No you didn't lose because of touch ranger cheapness, you lost because some idiot doesnt know how to shut the door. A warrior can do the same thing.

I fight touchers all the time, sometimes I win sometimes I lose. It's based on the circumstances of the match. A noob touch ranger walks into my AoE in order to deal damage. Other veteran touchers wait for me to be KD, or come in and attack me while im charging up a long cast spell. There is alot of skill involved in this game. Its all about timing, so less complaining more working on your skills. That is the final solution to this problem.

Touch Rangers don't need to be nerfed. Community noobness needs to be nerfed.

Sondor · Jun 26, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Idon't realy know whats ur problem...
Your ideas are useles because all touch ranger use plague touch to send conditions right back at you.And you can't suggest that that is changed to attack skill aswell because it is widely used amongst necromancers and not only touchers.

By simply putting one diversion hex on a touch ranger u can disable him completely, since the health gain from using only one of his vampric skills is not nearly enough to keep him alive.

My favourite tactic is to use cripshot on them with apply poisen and hunters shot for degen of 7.Because they can't get close enough to you to touch you they can't get rid of the cripple,poisen and bleeding and they won't live long because they can't steal hp.

Your lack of insight on how to deal with them is no reason to nerf the build.

The milk shake · Jun 27, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

they should nerf protective spirit so instead of 10% its 20%, it really gets ridiculous in aspenwood with a prot monk hiding behind gate making it extremely difficult to kill the last elementalist. There are already many other overpowered things, to nerf one should mean they would have to nerf them all aka 55 monk lol

Alcazanar · Jun 27, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Are we gonna talk about what needs to get nerfed?
nerf the 55hp monks then we can talk about nerfing
touch rangers.

however you know their weakness so thats
why it wont happen... learn the weakness
of touch rangers then