Curse

gabrial heart · Jun 20, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

there is a real simple solution for touch rangers, make expertise count only toward ranger based skills. Although i doubt that will happen...

there are also many counters for touch rangers and plenty of builds that deal with them, (see blood spiker counters), SB, shadow shroud (i think), obsidian flesh are just a few... use scourage sacrifice on a touch ranger, it's really funny and great for smite builds in pvp!

Drop a met shower on em, whatever, dont think they need be nerfed IMHO.

AW Lore · Jun 20, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by J3mo

imo most is bs, 1. e-denial works
2. diversion wont work they have both vamp bite and touch and you can live with only 1 of them
3. how the hell will you interrupt a vamp bite ? (3/4 sec <-- gg)
4. cripple, ok will work but they have atleast 1 sprint so.
5. if they bite you, degen wont work
6. kiting won't work they have atleast 1 sprint

1.- works
2.- do you know that diversion recharges in 10 seconds, last 6 seconds on the enemy, and that there is also other skills to boost the times you can cast it and best thing is, with a high lvl domination diversion can last a full 60 seconds or a bit more.
3.-timing, i have interrupted the touch skills a few times with my ranger, they always follow the same pattern, die to them a few times analyzing htat pattern and next time you face them youll be able to use interrupt on the two skills that need to be intterupted and have him turn tail and run.
4.- cripple works wonders, if he is crippled you can outrun him, doesnt matter if he uses a speed boost or not.
5.- cast the degen and run around, the phantasm mesmer skill ( the one with -5 degen) can last quite a bit, and its casted fairly fast, run around and he wont bite you.
6.- yes they do, but it still makes it harder for them to chain their touch skills as they have to stop, cast the skill, then catch up with you, if you have friendly casters nearby you, they will snare him and slow him down and kill him, more than once a i have kited a touch ranger near my casters and they kill him.

people that want to nerf them is becuase they want to "pwn" the touch rangers and claim the credit for themselves instead of team work.

Francis Demeules · Jun 20, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by AW Lore

4.- cripple works wonders, if he is crippled you can outrun him, doesnt matter if he uses a speed boost or not.
5.- cast the degen and run around, the phantasm mesmer skill ( the one with -5 degen) can last quite a bit, and its casted fairly fast, run around and he wont bite you.

Prob with speed boost and you're a mesmer? Crippling Anguish [E] is the solution. Mixed with Phantasm can be a pain for them.

Shifty Five Monk · Jun 21, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

diversion ftw

Phoenix Arrows · Jun 21, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

So many people have posted...I can't read them all!

Touchs should NOT be changed into attack skills. What kind of attack allows you to steal health from a foe? Also, attack skills require the use of a weapon, but what weapon would you use? If it is a touch attack it would make sense for the weapon to be a melee weapon, therefore making it harder for anyone but a Warrior or Assassin to use it because it requires a specific weapon. Most attack skills don't have a set damage either.

/NOT-SIGNED! : )

P.S. Guild tried to run 8 Touchies in GvG yesterday and it was a disaster : ).

Guardian of the Light · Jun 21, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

/notsigned

Touch rangers aren't that bad they're just a good balanced build.

They only kill stupid morons who don't know how to kite and refuse to learn how. That's the only reason they're use in RA and AB

.

Maria The Princess · Jun 21, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

MOMMY cut my finguer because i didn't know how to use a knife, can we plz NURF it?????

C'MON people, evry profession has diffrent builds good builds. why doesn't enybody want to nurf IWAY? cuz we all run it once in a while right? and if we dont we learned how to counter that right? why not nurf airspikers and domination mesmers? cuz we all like them in PVP

i mean, a little challenge and we cry like babies: "MAMY ANET NURF THAT AND THIS CUZ IT KEEPS KILLING ME"

RTSFirebat · Jun 21, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

there is a real simple solution for touch rangers, make expertise count only toward ranger based skills. Although i doubt that will happen...

It won't happen, that would kill off a huge number of Ranger builds.

kvndoom · Jun 21, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Personally I'm getting sick of them. It wasn't so bad until a week or so ago, now I'm just sick of them. Part of it is because I just made a Ritualist, and I'm sorry, but a kiting Rit is pretty much useless when your main spells take 3-5 seconds to cast. And it's a damn good build (which requires SKILL, not repetitive button-mashing), but by the logic of some, I should drop it and just roll a cripshot ranger or crippling anguish mesmer in order to win against knuckleheads who couldn't run a SKILLFUL build if their lives depended on it. Don't bother telling me that build requires any skill. Play a monk or a mesmer if you want to know what needing skill entails. And I will damn sure not lower myself to their snake-fellating level and play one for the sake of cheap wins.

For most of these knuckleheads, touch rangers were probably their first smell of winning in PvP since they dumped their Healing Hands paladins or "X Naruto X", "Xx Naruto Xx", "I Naruto I", "X Samurai Naruto X" assassins. Take away their stupid button-mashing build, and in no time they'll wind up right back where they were, and where they belong- on the losing end of a 57-second flawless victory from people who actually know how to play the game.

Skuld · Jun 21, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

there is a real simple solution for touch rangers, make expertise count only toward ranger based skills. Although i doubt that will happen...

there are also many counters for touch rangers and plenty of builds that deal with them, (see blood spiker counters), SB, shadow shroud (i think), obsidian flesh are just a few... use scourage sacrifice on a touch ranger, it's really funny and great for smite builds in pvp!

Drop a met shower on em, whatever, dont think they need be nerfed IMHO.

Oh, so you want thumpers nerfed? And ANet's own premade dagger ranger? and more? Look a little further.

Isileth · Jun 21, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

1 or 2 of them running around and people wouldnt be moaning as much as they are now. The fact is ive been in RA so many times where we have faced a team of 4 touch rangers or AB where we have faced over 10! People say there is many ways to stop them but infact they are pretty specialised. Diversion, snares and degen are the main ways suggested. The problem is only 1 class gets access to diversion and they also have a lot of snares and degen. Other classes are pretty much useless against them. Where most other builds can be countered by almost every class (with varying degrees of success obviousely) touch ranger seems to have mesmers as its most hated and after that its pretty much plain sailing. How they can be said to be balanced when in Aspenwood the same touch ranger soloed both gate guys and the architect with over 5 people attacking him! How does that stand up to any other class? They do more dmg than most classes, there are less ways to stop them than most builds and there are litterally thousands of them! Do they need balancing? Yes without a shadow of a doubt! Either making expertise not effect them or make them attacks so there are at least more ways to stop them!

Minus Sign · Jun 21, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

I think there lies the crux of the issue. Touch Rangers revolve around spamming 2 skills (technically 1 in 2 skillslots) to be played. "Skillful" builds require you to cram in 8 skills that you use all the time.

Like Prot Boon. A powerful and difficult to use build revolving around...spamming RoF and Guardian 80% of the time...

Wait, lemme try again. SS necros...no. Thy're mostly worried about spamming SS--1 skill in truth--for most of their lives.

Rit Lords? Yeah! They have 3 skills to spam: Shelter, Union and Displacement! That counts, doesn't it?

Face it nerf callers; R/N is no different from your own build in terms of skill. In a skillful players hands, it will cream you. If you and your team are half the players you think you are, you should be owning these people.

You say its overpowered. We've told you--time and again--how to counter it. Easily counter it. An easily countered build is not overpowered. All you need do is unbend your overproud necks, put those "useless" snares, cripples and what not into your build and accept that the meta-game has changed. Once you do, the touch rangers pwnaciousness will receed from RA.

Do you? No. You don't want the metagame to change, you liked it the way it was and you don't want to tweek your build to add skills that you don't want/like to use. Neither do your friends. So the solution is "Nerf this skill i don't use!"

Should every build be able to counter a touch ranger? Absolutely not. Then it would be UNDER POWERED and nerfed to hell! Thats what you want. I can only pray Anet doesn't give it to you. Because next come "Prot Boon is overpowered! Nerf it again!" and "SS should have a rechage time of 20 seconds!" or "10 Minions is still 8 too many!"

Where does it end? When everyone and their grandma's Whammo is running around HoH with staff weapons and no skills because thats the only DPS we have left?

Adapt or die. You aren't adapting? You deserve to die

RTSFirebat · Jun 21, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Personally I'm getting sick of them. It wasn't so bad until a week or so ago, now I'm just sick of them. Part of it is because I just made a Ritualist, and I'm sorry, but a kiting Rit is pretty much useless when your main spells take 3-5 seconds to cast. And it's a damn good build (which requires SKILL, not repetitive button-mashing), but by the logic of some, I should drop it and just roll a cripshot ranger or crippling anguish mesmer in order to win against knuckleheads who couldn't run a SKILLFUL build if their lives depended on it. Don't bother telling me that build requires any skill. Play a monk or a mesmer if you want to know what needing skill entails. And I will damn sure not lower myself to their snake-fellating level and play one for the sake of cheap wins.

For most of these knuckleheads, touch rangers were probably their first smell of winning in PvP since they dumped their Healing Hands paladins or "X Naruto X", "Xx Naruto Xx", "I Naruto I", "X Samurai Naruto X" assassins. Take away their stupid button-mashing build, and in no time they'll wind up right back where they were, and where they belong- on the losing end of a 57-second flawless victory from people who actually know how to play the game.

Please less of the pointless flaming. Any build requires a level of understand and skill, some just require less then others.

Using a certain build does make anyone a "Ex Wammo using, Naruto assasin Knucklehead", and your playing on a cheap stereotype.

Your post makes you sound foolish.

Isileth · Jun 21, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Every build requires skill. Some obviousely require more or at least a better understanding. Touch Ranger in itself is a very simple build, run up to target press 1 then 2, rinse and repeat. Its not a lack of skill that i find wrong with this build. Its purely that it is more powerful than any other build im aware of! Sure it can be countered but not anywhere near the ammount of counters to other builds, this would be a fair trade off if it didnt perform as well as it did. Unfortunately it is extremely powerful! Sure a mesmer with diversion or a cripshot ranger can stop them but what about everyone else? Every other build has common counters. Gaurdian, Aegis, wards, blind and hexes stop melee, backfire, interrupts and other hexes stop casters. These are all common skills that can be found on multiple classes. Touch rangers require very specific counters that only a few classes get access to. Its not the shear power of the build but that fact its so hard to prevent. Changing them to attacks or spells so that they can be stopped by more than just 1-2 classes is deffinately the way to go.

Evilsod · Jun 21, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Take away their stupid button-mashing build, and in no time they'll wind up right back where they were, and where they belong- on the losing end of a 57-second flawless victory from people who actually know how to play the game.

That part made me laugh. Surely people who know how to play the game would have no trouble beating such a 'noob' build?
Why does pressing 1 and 2 over and over make it any different from pressing a few more buttons over and over? Barrage involved majorly pressing 1 over and over and the occasional Throw Dirt or interrupt until things die. It just so happens to be the quickest method of clearing the Tombs and FoW (dunno how it'd manage with UW) to date.

They would never change Vampiric Touch/Bite to Spells. The moment they do that hoardes of 55monk would just go farm Scarabs in the desert with SB giving them protection from instagib.

Cold · Jun 21, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Dont nerf them pls, touch rangers are my favourite prey

My assassin kill them really quickly

kvndoom · Jun 21, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

I don't use Ritual Lord, Shelter, or Union, thank you very much. I read the skill listings and make my own builds, not copy the FOTM. Every gladiator point I earn comes with the pride of knowing I designed what works best for me.

My Rit build happens to be a TEAM build, based on supporting members of my TEAM, which ideally consists of 4 people working together, not 4 people running off in 4 different directions doing their own thing. Sorry if I mistakenly thought teamwork and cohesion went hand in hand. I didn't build an "anti- touch ranger" build, nor an anti- anything, it's a team-support build. If I want anti-touch ranger, I'll make one. I could beat the 'noob' build all freaking day long if I wanted to, because once you snare and degen them they just stand around looking stupid until they die, but that's not what I made my Rit for.

The standard paladin build is actually good, it's just used wrong. If the guys playing it actually put mending on the monks and used healing hands on their allies when they were in trouble, it would make a hell of a difference. I just prefer to see teamwork rewarded in arenas, not reckless narcissism.

Minus Sign · Jun 21, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Excuse me, but I want to talk to a few specific people now.

@ Isileth: do the "everyone else" you speak for include that assassin who just spoke up? or knockdown warriors? These are the two classes with reason to complain--supposedly--because they revolve around getting into mellee range to deal damage.

The point anti-nerfers have been making is that EVERY class has a ready counter to this build. All you have to do is start bringing it into the game.

Which brings me to kvndoom: you and your team are NOT. Obviously not! You say this is all about teamwork? Where is your Trap Ranger? If you're a spirit spammer or any type of semi-stationary castor with low kiting ability then a trapper should be neck deep up your @*% as we speak with flame and spike. If one touch ranger runs off "on his own" he should be dead 10 seconds after he comes into casting range of your organised team.

If you do meet a cohesive team that charges together? Those traps still kill or at least slow them. All you need do is hide inside while they dart around; the first R/N that comes near you gets pwnt!

If you and your team are half the players you think you are then you should be mopping the floor with a 4 man touch group. You should be ready for them.

You aren't. You're set up to fight something else that is not being played as often as you'd like. Your balanced team is built around a fight that does not exist in the curent metagame.

To be blunt: your well thought out--"original"--balanced team build sucks.

frickett · Jun 21, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Hey, lets not nerf it until I get a chance to try it. That happened with MM's, I waited to get factions so I would have a character slot for a necro. I will never know the joy of controlling 30 plus minions. So I want to play a touch ranger before it gets crippled.

inscribed · Jun 21, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

My Rit build happens to be a TEAM build, based on supporting members of my TEAM, which ideally consists of 4 people working together, not 4 people running off in 4 different directions doing their own thing.

Wow, you really aren't too bright. If you are playing Random Arena, this is what you get, and what you should expect.

If you were actually interested in team play, go play Team Arena, that way you can build a team before you even enter. If I am mistaken and you are complaining about losing to touch rangers in Team Arena, then you really just need to learn to play better.