Curse

Yakumo · Jun 06, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Could you explain what you mean by "Learn to Kite", because I'm lost to that expression.

Kiting is running/moving away to avoid damage. It's not simply fleeing from battle completely, but sidestepping attacks whilst continuing to contribute to the battle e.g hit and run.

Evil_Greven · Jun 06, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Wow, what sad players we have here. Listen, a couple things:

*Touch rangers aren't new. I made one in August 2005.
-Touch of Agony/Vampiric Touch/Plague Touch/Offering of Blood/Troll Unguent/Storm Chaser/Strip Enchantment/Rez sig was my old build. I learned a lot playing it, both counters and strengths. This old build I stopped playing with the OOB nerf. I haven't made a Touch Ranger since, however I've seen *few* factions variations in Random Arenas (why is this being said to be super common now?)

*Touch rangers die to kiting
-With Factions, there's two Vamps, but most builds DO NOT HAVE A DEGEN COUNTER. Elementalists, Mesmers, and Rangers can kill most of these touch rangers with two skills: A degen & a snare.

Please. Learn to play. I watched Last of Master playing his new touch ranger, and it was rather amusing. However, his build could not sustain itself against onslaught by multiple targets without outside healing. And with Escape, he had no energy management, so when he fought the Guild Lord WITH Bloodlight Blades, he had to rez Bloodlight Blades after he died because of lack of energy.

Even with 16, Vampiric Touch/Bite costs 5. With no energy recovery, and only 3 ticks of energy regeneration, you DO burn through it rather quickly. Believe me, I know.

Lordhelmos · Jun 06, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

I didnt see the match so I can't comment specifically. But it there is "ganking" involved then there is a problem with the game mechanics itself if a single player was allowed to slip through defenses undetected/unchallenged as you claim.

I think you're jumping to conclusions far too easily here...

It was simple. Evil waited for VoD but WaRM knew it was gonna happen. They barred EviL's guild lord in the base with spirits. The last prides toucher used escape to rush past the crowd, ran all the way across the map and killed the guild lord almost by himself before another player came in for support. To see a class charge all the way across the map with escape, (which means speed and evasion 50/75% or something like that.) and damage down the guild lord to half like within 2 minutes after the rush by himself AND barely taking any damage. Your not going to call that cheap? Last Pride is good.. the best actually, dont get me wrong. But still, I felt that the touch was exploited as seen one on one with the guild lord. Especially in under 2 minutes while being able to run and evade faster than anyone else on the map amidst the chaos. That and the touch ranger was single handedly able to scout the map by himself and kill every single enemy NPC left isolated. When VoD hit WaRM had nothing left BUT the guild lord. You want to tell me that your in the middle of a heated fight and your going to get screwed because once single player can run through your whole base with escape and maul down all your NPC's in 1-3 minutes for each one? What are you going to do? Break up your whole team to catch one guy? Send a snare out? Maybe cripshot rangers are going to get some overtime for the next FoTM. Yes im not saying touches are invincible. But they are strong to the point where their only achilles heel is a snare attack. Now this was a high level match between 2 very good guilds, yet the touch ranger is still able to solo the entire base and maul the guild lord. I don't know what else to say. I just think they are a bit overpowered. Thats my 2 cents on the subject. Just wait.. everyone that saw that match is gonna mimic that build and everyones gonna start complaining about touchers even more.

prism2525 · Jun 06, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Lordhelmos, pls read what other ppl said, there is a very possible counter to cope with touch rangers. I hate them too and in fact I made a build especially to counter it (I use diversion, a 10/3/10 spell which sends touchers flying). Of course it has skills to help me survive other types of builds too.

The point is: Touch rangers are just a new build who are living their max period of godlike-looking the same way as IWAY did. So just take a look at the skills and put 2 and 2 together.

Beat_Go_Stick · Jun 06, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Just remove Vamp Bite. There's no real reason there should be a duplicate of it when there is a Mesmer elite that is elite because it does that very thing. Why did they create duplicate skills anyway? It seems silly and created this whole issue...

Robin_Anadri · Jun 06, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everybody Pwned By Touchers

Whine, whine, whine. Cry, cry, cry.

Mommy, mommy, the bad ranger touched me in my no-no place!

I can't be bothered to come up with a way to defeat a FotM build!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!

Puh-leaze, people.

Kite. Degen. E-denial. Diversion. Knockdown. Snare. Signet of Humility.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the arena. Quit asking Mommy Anet to nerf two entire character classes because you don't understand that in PvP you have to be ready for whatever the other side throws at you.

Which is why touch ranger teams eventually aren't viable, because they are very specialized and won't hold halls or go very far in GvG. And if you lose to touchers? That means your team wasn't worthy of winning.

Grow up.

Undivine · Jun 06, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I will be merging two threads together. Please please PLEASE use the search and the Index of Ideas before you post your suggestion.

yesitsrob · Jun 06, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

So like... I am not reading through all this thread... but based on the original post.

Touch Rangers don't need nerfing or anything changing, they are a scrub build that don't actually work against anyone decent, all they are good for is beating people in random arenas who refuse to kite

Evil_Greven · Jun 06, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Lordhelmos,

Hmm, I must have seen a different match. In any case, an assassin (ex: Nox The Ninja from Black Widow) was able to do the exact same thing, and I believe he's soloed a guild lord or two. I've seen warriors kill all NPCs in bases, and even the guild lord. What's different?

Because you have irrational hatred for this build.

lyra_song · Jun 06, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I think one think i should re-mention, in case it got lost is this:

R/N do not have hex removal. Their counter to hexes would be Melandru's Resilience or Nature's renewal. One fades quickly and takes up an elite, the other can be avoided.

ChildeOfMalkav · Jun 06, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

It was simple. Evil waited for VoD but WaRM knew it was gonna happen. They barred EviL's guild lord in the base with spirits. The last prides toucher used escape to rush past the crowd, ran all the way across the map and killed the guild lord almost by himself before another player came in for support. To see a class charge all the way across the map with escape, (which means speed and evasion 50/75% or something like that.) and damage down the guild lord to half like within 2 minutes after the rush by himself AND barely taking any damage.

Sorry, I cut down your quote because it was a bit long...but I read all of it. Basically what you've said is that Touch Rangers should be nerfed because one guy ran all the way across to the Guild Lord untouched and "almost" kill him by himself?

Uhh first, how is the running straight to the Guild Lord related to Touch skills themselves? A warrior could also run straight to the GL too. Heck anyone with run skills can do that. So I dont know why you brought up the point that the guy was able to speed through to the GL.

Second, NPCs are VERY easy to kill. Again, any character built to kill NPCs can do it. Hell, I've "almost" killed the GL by myself a few times too. Most people built for it can also scout the map and kill NPCs solo too. I dont know why you think that it's such an accomplishment to do so. Go do some scrimmage to mess around killing NPCs and you'll see how easy it is.

Basically this is my long winded way of saying, PLENTY of classes/combos can do what you described the Touch Ranger was doing in that match. That in no way means that they're overpowered.

Janus_Zeal · Jun 06, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

/signed

They require little to no skill on the gamers part, I have no tolerance for builds like that. Becuase of this fact, the game is flooded with them. At least make them somehow more difficult to play, so there will be less of them.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 06, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

/notsigned this is almost as bad as the 'sin nerf stuff, just cuz you dunno how to counter doesn't mean it should go away, besides touch rangers are easy to counter X.X trust me I know I played as one, all they had to do is have a decent monk and someone else to degen/ focus fire.. easy to counter.

Robin_Anadri · Jun 07, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janus_Zeal

/signed

They require little to no skill on the gamers part, I have no tolerance for builds like that. Becuase of this fact, the game is flooded with them. At least make them somehow more difficult to play, so there will be less of them.

*chuckle*

I love all the people saying that playing a touch ranger requires no skill. Because you hit two skills multiple times?

I guess boon/prot monks don't require skill either, after all you just hit divine boon then spam RoF and Guardian. Guess we should nerf boon prots, cause they require no skill.

Oh, and warriors. They just pick a target and run up and hit their attack skills over and over when their energy and adrenaline is rercharged, guess we've got another candidate for nerfage because there's no skill involved there.

Oh, and elementalists. They just use Glyph of Renewal/Meteor Storm over and over. Guess we ought to nerf those unskilled bastards as well.

Minion masters are no-skill classes too I guess, all they ever do is use animate spells and then spam BotM. Guess we have to nerf them too.

I could go on, but I won't. You either get the point, or you're too caught up in your inflated ego and hurt pride at your precious UberTank getting pwned by a mere.... ranger! Oh noes!!!

Janus_Zeal · Jun 07, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin

I could go on, but I won't. You either get the point, or you're too caught up in your inflated ego and hurt pride at your precious UberTank getting pwned by a mere.... ranger! Oh noes!!!

I don't have a tank, FYI. As far as the other classes you mentioned, I never really see them played the way you describe. I feel that you were exaggerating to push your point across.

When I get owned by full teams of warriors or full teams of boon protect monks, then I'll stop and say "okay, maybe I was wrong". Until then, I'll still feel the same way I do about touch rangers.

By the way, did I somehow insult you by saying that touch rangers require no skill?

Gargle Blaster · Jun 07, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

/notsigned this is almost as bad as the 'sin nerf stuff, just cuz you dunno how to counter doesn't mean it should go away, besides touch rangers are easy to counter X.X trust me I know I played as one, all they had to do is have a decent monk and someone else to degen/ focus fire.. easy to counter.

wha? it takes 3 people to takeout one touch ranger -that is balanced how?

please read the first post - i know how to counter touch rangers - the problem is that they are not balanced.

Lordhelmos · Jun 07, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Sorry, I cut down your quote because it was a bit long...but I read all of it. Basically what you've said is that Touch Rangers should be nerfed because one guy ran all the way across to the Guild Lord untouched and "almost" kill him by himself?

Uhh first, how is the running straight to the Guild Lord related to Touch skills themselves? A warrior could also run straight to the GL too. Heck anyone with run skills can do that. So I dont know why you brought up the point that the guy was able to speed through to the GL.

Second, NPCs are VERY easy to kill. Again, any character built to kill NPCs can do it. Hell, I've "almost" killed the GL by myself a few times too. Most people built for it can also scout the map and kill NPCs solo too. I dont know why you think that it's such an accomplishment to do so. Go do some scrimmage to mess around killing NPCs and you'll see how easy it is.

Basically this is my long winded way of saying, PLENTY of classes/combos can do what you described the Touch Ranger was doing in that match. That in no way means that they're overpowered.

Hmm.. my mentality at that point was just getting out of random arenas after fighting 1000000000 touch rangers. Then I watch the match and see a touch build running in tournament play. I'm going to recall my arguement on this due to the fact that I'm really just upset with seeing so many people use the same build rather than having the build be unfair. As you know theres no nerf for stupid people with no imagination or creativity to come up with something different. I know surefire counter builds exit to that own these rangers. (KD elementalist, watersnare ele, etc..) Ehhh.. PvP, I dunno I'm losing interest in it because of flakey trends. IWAY and Touch Rangers are good builds, great ideas. However because of these builds being overly abused just players that want to score an easy wins the entire overall level of fun in PvP just isnt there anymore IMO. This is just an opinion, maybe an explanation to my recent posts. Arguement Closed, im not going to comment any more on this subject.

Zui · Jun 07, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

However because of these builds being overly abused just players that want to score an easy wins the entire overall level of fun in PvP just isnt there anymore IMO. This is just an opinion, maybe an explanation to my recent posts. Arguement Closed, im not going to comment any more on this subject.

Try TA or GvG. You'll find good players that use decent builds and play to win.

generik · Jun 07, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Blah blah blah...

Yadda yadda yadda...

There is no such thing as imbalance in this game.

Even if there is an ele skill that spikes for 1000 dmg with no cast time, no recharge, and no energy cost, it is STILL not an imbalance.

Because guess what?

The same option is available to YOU too. Don't want to "exploit" it?

Well I am sure that's what all losers say.

RTSFirebat · Jun 07, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Blah blah blah...

Yadda yadda yadda...

There is no such thing as imbalance in this game.

Even if there is an ele skill that spikes for 1000 dmg with no cast time, no recharge, and no energy cost, it is STILL not an imbalance.

Because guess what?

The same option is available to YOU too. Don't want to "exploit" it?

Well I am sure that's what all losers say.

Being a Touch Ranger is not a "exploit".