Curse

Cybah · Jul 15, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Stopped reading there. I don't know what kind of hammer you use but I deal way more damage with a hammer than I do with axe/sword on the shortrun and longrun.

lol... that's kinda shit sorry. I kill all 4 puppets in balthazar (2x 60, 1x 80, 1x 100) in 36 seconds with a sword/axe build. try that with hammer. good luck.

Quote:

I've even taken out sword/axe warriors with some hammer warrior builds.

Look above. I don't talk about 1on1 situations. And without knockdown you would lose any fight.

Note to all: I'm speaking of a pve buff. I know how annoying knockdown warriors can be in pvp.

0mar · Jul 15, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

Look above. I don't talk about 1on1 situations. And without knockdown you would lose any fight.

That's the whole point of hammer warriors, for knockdown chains. You can easily pin someone for 8 or more seconds on the floor unless there's a ward of stability or he has balanced stance on.

Divinus Stella · Jul 15, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Adding an inherent armor bonus into hammer might help, i cant see any harm in having something like Armor+16 or something in the same way staves have energy+10, perhaps even armor+20 to compensate for the loss of the -dmg and +hp.

Cybah · Jul 15, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

That's the whole point of hammer warriors, for knockdown chains.

THAT opinion exists only because hammer warriors are completely harmless without knockdown.

More armor wouldnt make any sense. But the basic dmg should be maybe the double of a sword attack: 22-44.

Mesmer in Need · Jul 16, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Do yourself a favor and go look up the "ranger weapons with requirements other than Marksmanship" thread in this very forum...

dont worry i have

-Deviance- · Jul 16, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Hammer Warriors need NO buffs. Their is plenty of builds that you can make to speed up the time of attacks. You can have a W/R and use Tiger's Fury to speed it up or use W/any and just use "For Great Justice" or use the elite skill "Rage". Also even though hammer don't deal damage over 'time' you can coordinate skills to which when they are activated in sequence they take massive damage. For instance:

1. Tiger's Fury
2. Ferocious Strike [e]
3. Hammer Bash
4. Crushing Blow
5. Irresistable Blow

I use that a lot and it about knocks any 'squishie' target to very low health. If Hammer warriors were buffed I think they would pretty much kill everything. I know that with my hammer warrior I can take down pretty much everything except for degen mesmers or necros because that pretty much beats any warrior without hex removals.

If you are having a problem with energy you could always go W/N and use "For Great Justice" to make your adrenaline catch up faster and then when you are low on energy just use Offering Of Blood.

There is many ways you can go around the 'lacks' of having a hammer. And many builds are out there that can make a hammer warrior very good. There is also many builds that can kila hammer warrior in no time at all.

waiver · Jul 16, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Okay Cybah. Your really annoying me. Hammers are ment has they are made, stop whining. Hammers are ment as spikes. Period. If you dont like it, pick up an axe or sword.

"But the basic dmg should be maybe the double of a sword attack: 22-44."
Ha. That wouldn't be balencing. Like I said in my last post, you're trying to make them some godly 3-hit-kill weapon.

ShadowsRequiem · Jul 16, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

Bad analogy, it's because rangers don't have another viable choice.
Check the hammer thread in Gladiator's Arena. While on paper hammers actually look kind of bad, there's really nothing scarier than being chased by a good hammer warrior.

someone in this thread has played pvp
(only read page one kinda got sick to my stomach)

Evilsod · Jul 16, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

The armour mods are a bit crap for a hammer... the exact same as an axe. Same goes for the Zealous Mod... axes gain twice the energy a Horn Bow would.

Hammers have much more shock damage than an axe. Backbreaker is alot more terryfying to a monk than Eviscerate. Eviscerate you can move to avoid the Executioners Strike. Backbreaker your stuck fast for 4 seconds.

Tien ak · Jul 16, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Backbreaker+ crushing blow + Aftershock = 200 dmg

Yeah not bad if you ask me the thing with those dummies you tested on don't fall to the ground my fav Hammer build is Irresistable blow, Mighty blow, Backbreaker, Crushing blow, After shock, Frenzy, healing sig and res sig

but yeah test it out in RA you may be a tad happy with the results...

I think the mention of Defensive mods is a good idea +16 one is a no no for me more like +10 would be balanced.

PS Waiver no one asked if cybah was annoying you. take your bad sacastic humor some where else please no ones being an arse hole to you.

lyra_song · Jul 16, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Ok, as both a PvE and PvP hammer warrior i will give my opinions.

Personally i love hammers. They cause a lot of damage and KD is awesome disruption.

For PvE, the hammer is very unwieldy. You will often face 5-6 enemies at a time and the lack of armor REALLY doesn't pay off for the amount of damage you cause in the long run. The high costs of adrenaline doesnt pay off either. I often find myself with a bunch of dead enemies before i can finish my chain combos.

While its true the KD is powerful disruption, it has very limited use in PVE, because theres very few enemies that can even survive a hammer warrior with IAS on in a 1 on 1 situation.

I find that a hammer warrior as a SECOND warrior is a great help to an axe or a sword warrior.

Concerning PvP:
Hammer warriors were the bane of existence before rise of the boon-prot. I used to use the old KD/AS combos and would usually kill any monk in TA by myself.

However nowadays, i find that hammer warriors are still powerful but have been replaced by more attractive warrior styles like the Shock Warrior who have more utility than a dedicated KDer.

in short, i think there should be some buff to hammer skills, but not the hammer mods themselves.

Osi Ri S · Jul 16, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

THAT opinion exists only because hammer warriors are completely harmless without knockdown.

More armor wouldnt make any sense. But the basic dmg should be maybe the double of a sword attack: 22-44.

sword is 15-22 last time i checked...

anonymous · Jul 16, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by X of Thulcandra

Almost all the hammers used back in the medieval/dark ages were one-handed anyways.

Seriously, warriors can survive getting hit in the head with a meteor but cant pick up a hammer with one hand?

Curse You · Jul 16, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

Seriously, warriors can survive getting hit in the head with a meteor but cant pick up a hammer with one hand?

My necro can survive a meteor to the head too.

I haven't seen hammer warriors in PvE much. The only one I seee often is Devona, and I occasionally see her knock down enemies.

I think the way hammer warriors are supposed to make up for no sheild is with Knockdown, and Weakness.

Ensign · Jul 16, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Hammers aren't used for different reasons by different people.

Good players tend to not use hammers because the big benefit of the line - knockdowns - doesn't work on a significant number of monsters. Against monsters that are vulnerable to knockdowns, hammers are reasonably popular for their combination of damage and mes effects.

Bad players don't use hammers because bad players are suits of armor that happen to carry a weapon, not killing machines that happen to have good armor because they're up there mixing it up.

Peace,
-CxE

TadaceAce · Jul 16, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Why would you buff the hammer, hammer is arguable the most used warrior weapon between the wars and the 1001 thumpers using it.

As far as pve hammer war, enraged smash ftw.

Kool Pajamas · Jul 16, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

If you buff hammers, everyone will be a bunny thumper >.<

actionjack · Jul 16, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Ok, as both a PvE and PvP hammer warrior i will give my opinions.

Personally i love hammers. They cause a lot of damage and KD is awesome disruption.

For PvE, the hammer is very unwieldy. You will often face 5-6 enemies at a time and the lack of armor REALLY doesn't pay off for the amount of damage you cause in the long run. The high costs of adrenaline doesnt pay off either. I often find myself with a bunch of dead enemies before i can finish my chain combos.

While its true the KD is powerful disruption, it has very limited use in PVE, because theres very few enemies that can even survive a hammer warrior with IAS on in a 1 on 1 situation.

I find that a hammer warrior as a SECOND warrior is a great help to an axe or a sword warrior.

Concerning PvP:
Hammer warriors were the bane of existence before rise of the boon-prot. I used to use the old KD/AS combos and would usually kill any monk in TA by myself.

However nowadays, i find that hammer warriors are still powerful but have been replaced by more attractive warrior styles like the Shock Warrior who have more utility than a dedicated KDer.

in short, i think there should be some buff to hammer skills, but not the hammer mods themselves.

Well say.. agree on your observations.

I think hammer skills are fine, and fun to play with. However, hammer are penalized for their KD skills, which have too limited of use in many situations.

So I would disagreew with lyra on the in short part, and say hammers skill is fine, but boost hammer stats and mod up a bit to compensate for their slow attack speed and use of 2 hand. Also need to make them bigger.. to compensate for my own needs....

markus_thom · Jul 16, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

Hammers actually don't deal more dmg over time than axe/sword attacks, but they should.

While playing with hammer you lose 16 armor, 30 health and a second defense mod (cause of missing shield).

Because of their slow attack rate, you can't gain adrenaline fast, you don't get much energy through zealous mod and 20/20 sundering is just a joke.

I know some hammer skills got knockdown. But that's imho the one and only reason why people are playing with hammer. And that's why we never see hammer warriors in pve.

Imho there should be a chance of "attribute points in hammer mastery" percent for knockdown while attacking and/or using an attack skill... and the attack rate should be slightley increased.

Share your thoughts. I'm sad of collecting hammers and not using them.

Ive been saying it for ages, the hammer seems to be a wepon that just has 800 ways to knock over your opponent. Its funny how when using a hammer you go without a sheild yet you do less dps. In most games 2 handed wepons ussualy mean more offence less defence.

Navaros · Jul 16, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I'm not really an expert at Hammer Warriors but I am an an expert at the Monk class. When I play a Prot Monk in RA, usually Hammer Warriors' knockdowns are just about the only thing that results in my death, other than Dazed.

Whenever I see a Hammer Warrior, I think: "Uh oh, hope we don't lose this one!"

On the other hand, if I see an Axe or Sword Warrior coming at me, I think: "ROFL - here comes a Flawless".

Based on this analysis, I think buffing Hammers would make them way the heck overpowered.