Curse

Kool Pajamas · Aug 09, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I had an idea to change the Ele Attunements. Right now in the game bringing any offensive ele elite skills is hard to do because you run out of energy quick. Most people bring energy elites except for the recent surge in starburst eles.

My idea is that the individual attunements (fire,air,earth,water) should be raised to 50% or maybe make the amount you get back based on your attributes. 30-50%. Then to keep Ele attune from giving you 100% free energy with dual attune we lower that to 30%. It always seemed to make more sense to me to give a skill that covers every attribute a lower percentage than the one for the specific attribute. I dont know whether ele attune would still be worth an elite spot or not at this level but thats my idea. Maybe if you keep Ele attune based on energy storage and make the percentage based on the level we could make it non elite also.

I think this would give eles a better chance of using an elite offensive skill instead of nearly always energy elites.

unholy guardian · Aug 09, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

its an alright concept, but it ruins double attuning, and makes it a kinda worthless thing. Since you could just use either prodigy instead for even better energy

Phrozen_ · Aug 09, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

huge imbalance there...

/notsigned

Mithie · Aug 09, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

okay - but halve the duration of element-specific attunements and make them cost 25 erg.

Kool Pajamas · Aug 09, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrozen_

huge imbalance there...

/notsigned

Maybe you could explain what you think is imbalanced and suggest improvements instead of worthless comments like this.

No one said other modifications couldnt be made. Durations, energy cost, casting time and other things can be changed also.

prism2525 · Aug 09, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

okay - but halve the duration of element-specific attunements and make them cost 25 erg.

I really hope you're kidding. 25 energy and half the duration? As if eles aren't weak already.

I'm not saying to upset balance but that would upset it against the eles.

Kool Pajamas · Aug 09, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by unholy guardian

its an alright concept, but it ruins double attuning, and makes it a kinda worthless thing. Since you could just use either prodigy instead for even better energy

How would it ruin double attuning when it would still give the same 80% back? It would just be switched around to which one gives the higher percentage.

If 50% is a lot and unbalanced we could shorten duration time so to make it more of an upkeep you have to watch out for.

We just really need something to be done to make ele offensive elites more viable. Non elite energy management needs to be better. I dont think making individual attunes give more energy back would be unbalanced. They are enchantments which can easily be stripped especially with dervishes on their way.

bulletsmile · Aug 09, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

well there's is rather few eles that uses more then one of the air, fire, earth and water magic atributes, so 50% for the elemental attunement is most likely the same as air.......attunements and since it's elite it has more %.
This is also for the reason of planning your build and tactics wich guildwars has a lot of opportunities to, bring elemental with 50% and your energy last longer or bring a good dmg elite skill....

Kool Pajamas · Aug 10, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

But there are only a couple good damage ones because all the others eat your energy. After the first round of use your energy is dead.

unholy guardian · Aug 10, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

How would it ruin double attuning when it would still give the same 80% back? It would just be switched around to which one gives the higher percentage.

If 50% is a lot and unbalanced we could shorten duration time so to make it more of an upkeep you have to watch out for.

We just really need something to be done to make ele offensive elites more viable. Non elite energy management needs to be better. I dont think making individual attunes give more energy back would be unbalanced. They are enchantments which can easily be stripped especially with dervishes on their way.

who would double attune then if they could get 50% energy back and use ether prodigy?

BahamutKaiser · Aug 10, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Elites are known to be more effective than 2 simular skills, and Elemental Attunment is better than normal attunments and also covers several attributes, if you reduce its effect you essentially make it worse than normal attunment for multiple attributes, that isn't elite.

I agree with improving attunments, general energy management for Elementist is a neccessity, but you can't make normal attunments better than Elite attunments, that is just broken.

I think you are gravly underestimating the value of an attunment, normals give back a good amount of energy, Elemental gives back plenty, both together make even 25 energy skills cheap, and that is a huge deal, and now that Elemental attunment lasts longer than it's recast, it makes skills which would cost 25 energy only 5 energy indefinetly.

The problem with attunments is that they have such long recast and can be removed, which is why I always suggested that they be altered to be less removable or unremovable altogether. Either reducing the recast time to 30 seconds or less, so it can be recovered if removed, or making it a skill buff which can not be removed, or making it a stance which would require a stance break to remove.

The only justifcation for boosting normal attunments to 50% return is if Attunments are made into stances, which would mean you cannot stack them, that would make them harder to remove, and singly more effective, but unstackable. Then they would have to improve Elemental Attunement to at least 70% return by itself as well it would make a more powerful single skill which could not be stacked with another attunment.

Energy management skills are neccessary part of Elementist casting to even match the output other classes have in general, so improving some energy management techniques to be replaceable or harder to remove is an important feature for Elementist to compete.

I think the Attack elites for Elementist are the skills which really need improvement, the fact that an elementist is using his elite for other than energy management is a blow by itself, an elite which cost too much and/or doesn't deal significant damage is hainously ineffective.

The easiest way to improve alot of Elementist skills is reduce the recast time, that is the biggest problem overall.

Symbol · Aug 10, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

who would double attune then if they could get 50% energy back and use ether prodigy?

Have you even used ether prodigy before? Did you notice the big ol "removes all enchantments when it ends" clause? That's why no one runs attunements with prodigy, because it doesn't work.

Arcador · Aug 10, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

One dude suggested all atunements to give 40% (not 30 and 50). It sounds cool.

SpeedyKQ · Aug 10, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I agree that there is an issue here. In my experience, nothing comes close to the effectiveness of dual attunements, at least for PVE fire nuking. I'd like to be able to consider a different elite than elemental attunement once in awhile. But if I want to be in the same ballpark for damage as other professions, dual attuned echo nuking seems like the only way to do.

The narrowness is irritating.

Whether tinkering the attunements themselves is the best solution, I dunno.

unholy guardian · Aug 10, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Have you even used ether prodigy before? Did you notice the big ol "removes all enchantments when it ends" clause? That's why no one runs attunements with prodigy, because it doesn't work.

alright i forgot, still you could just use other energy elites combined with the new powerful attunment.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 11, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

If normal attunement was 50% than people would use normal attunement and Glyph of Energy. 50% is enough in general, and with a 20 energy + exhaustion remover, it would be very effective.

My issue here is that Elementist is expected to use 2 energy management skills just to attack regularly, if you include 2 support skills as well, which is common, that leaves you with only 4 attacks, and we all know how long some of those recasts can be.

I say the simple answer is to make the recast on Attunement 30 seconds, and the max lasting time near 60 seconds, that way if it is removed it doesn't break your energy management for up to a minute. If they increase the amount of energy return these have in any fashion, they will need to reduce the duration as well, which is fine by me, 50% return on normal attunements for 30 seconds and a 30 second recast is great IMO. Elemental Attunement needs to be better though.