Curse

Wrynn · Jul 28, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Ok, I'll start with:

---One: Materials Storage! Great idea! Poorly executed!
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I remember screaming this idea at Gaile one day when she was in LA for literally the WHOLE time she was there (about an hour)
At the time I said each slot capable of stacks of 500 or more, she scoffed at the idea "Y U NEED MOR THEN 250 OF AN ITEM LOLZ THT NOT HOW U PLY"
Or whatever.
One answer: 3-6 characters worth of armor, 15k armors alone take more than 250 of a material FOR THE FULL SUIT.
How to fix this issue
Raise the caps, honestly, I dont think having 2000 planks or hides is THAT hard to obtain, nor is it unreasonable to have that many.
Bare minimum request: Commons - cap @ 1000, rares - cap @ 500
Reasonable request: Commons - cap @ 10000, rares - cap @ 5000

---Two: EXPAND STORAGE.
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20 slots for 4 characters? Ok. 20 slots for SIX characters? Not Ok.
I buy 3 more slots for characters. 20 slots for NINE characters? ...
I buy nightfall. 20 slots for ELEVEN characters? Ugh.
Seriously, ANet, this has been a problem since DAY ONE.
Storage has NEVER been big enough, so you didnt want an item driven game, ok, fair enough, but its been a YEAR, its an item driven game, like it or not. MAKE IT BIGGER ALREADY.
Bare minimum request: 5 spaces in storage PER CHARACTER SLOT.
Reasonable request: 5 spaces in storage per char slot, and the ability to expand our storage capacity through a gold sink (Pay Xunlai agent 500g, get 1 slot, or something)

---Three: DYE STORAGE.
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You gave us material storage, wheres the dye storage? Honestly, do you really think people enjoy selling those oranges to the dye trader for 1-2g per?
Didnt think so. People save their dye. One slot per color, even a slot for remover.
Bare Min. Request: Slots for every color, cap @ 250
Reasonable request: Slots for every color INCL. Remover cap 250-500

---Four: A KEYRING.
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You gave us these neat keys to use everywhere, that way chests always give US an item (if we pay the money for the key to begin with)
This is a reasonable and (in my eyes, overall well recieved addition)
Now, gimme a place to STORE these keys
Bare Minimum request: A place on characters, AND a separate addition to storage to store keys separate from your inventories
Reasonable Request: A purchasable "key ring" (youd have to buy it for each character, just like the mat storage) that any character can access, ANYWHERE (in a zone, town, whatever), so I wouldnt have to remember every time im about to go out, oh yeah, get X keys for X place.

---Five: A scroll storage?
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Doing everything else, mightas well.

---Six: Armor and Weapon Locker.
This one i think i might have a bit harder time explaining
But basically, each character has a separate "locker" that they can access and dump weapons and armor suits in for temporary storage when you dont need them, additionally, only THAT character would be able to access it (my necro couldnt get into my rangers armor locker, etc.)
I dont need my 55 suit when im pvping, nor do I need all my blood weapons when im a death necro, whatever.
Request: 10 unlinked slots for armor (ie: not tied to a specific piece of armor, headgear or whatever) and 10 slots for weapons.

So yeah, I focused a lot on storage, now Im done, I promise.

Anyway... moving on.

You say you wanna auction house?
Solution: Xunlai (or whatever) Auctioneers.
How to keep people from flooding with items that will NEVER sell:
Pay to trade, pay 500g per item to put up, 100g for each additional day over two you want it up there, maximum 7 days (so max cost to put an item up = 1k)
Second option: Player made "stores" pay 10k or something, put up a large amount of items under your name.
Xunlai auctioneers will be in every town next to their box toting colleges.
Browse in tabs, Weapons, Runes, Materials, misc.
under weapons: swords, axes, shields, etc.
under wands/ staves / offhands: sort by attribute.
Except under stores, you will not have access to the persons name who is selling (so you cant force a friends auction up, or screw up an enemies auction)
Players posting items would have the choice of having a starting bid or just simply having a buyout price
For items over 100k there will be the ability to offer more than 100k actual gold (as the money could come directly out of storage. Also the ability for people to place items in exchange (which would have to be verified by the seller before accepting).
I could probably go into more detail, but im lazy, and im sure people could refine this a lot better than I could.

Character Customization:
Most armors tend to have two "Main" areas of focus.
Think of 15k plate as an example, as it has two distinct areas on it, the dyeable area, and the non-dyeable area.
Make most armors have two dyeable areas on them (scar patterns and ascetics tattoos would not be able to have two areas as an example)
This could increase player unique-ness
And if the new hair thing ISNT a bug, there better be "stylists" on the way soon. Maybe some unique hair styles for pve characters, ones you can only get in certain towns. (to further distinguish pves from their pve counterparts)

This isnt so much of a game idea as an outsider looking in.
Personally, Id rather see one LARGER game every year, then one factions sized game every six months. Also, two new classes every six months doesnt really sound appealling to me, and im sure other people too. Granted, the meta game needs the boosts, but Id rather see 100 new skills every six months, and two new classes every year, rather than a lot of stuff thrown at us every six months.

Finally, skills:
Order of Apostasy is BROKEN.
Fix it.
Now.
At the VERY least, give it a recharge. The fact that it can be maintained CONSTANTLY with energizing winds makes it a BROKEN SKILL.
How to make it still viable yet make it not be the most overpowered skill in the game at the moment:
add: 5 second recharge
change: wont affect with other necro enchants (just like Order of the Vampire)
change: upon removal of one enchant, apostasy ends for that character. (so one warrior cant remove 3 enchants by himself)

Ritualists:
Give all their "lightning damage" spells/skills 25% armor penetration. They are by far the most underpowered class in the game, basically completely given over to only their communing line of spirits. And with basically only ONE elite being used (Ritual Lord) They have a seat in the meta game, but they are kind of the outcast because they arent really effective at doing ANYTHING ELSE.

And seriously, break IWAY in half. You may have gotten people into pvp, but you have nerfed builds for far less than what IWAY has done.
Rationale:
Skills/Builds that have completely overtaken pvp in such a way that everyone, in order to run something OTHER than said FOTM, has to have counters for it has gotten nerfed.
Spirit Spam: Nerfed (special case as no real counters for it existed)
Air Spike: Nerfed (the rise of prot monks anyone?)
Smite eles: Nerfed (everyone had to bring massive amounts of enchant strips, eles with unlimted energy saw the nerf of Ether Renewal)
Blood Spike: Nerfed (half energy from spirits, no more unlimted energy necros)
IWAY: Pretended to be nerfed. Counters that have to be included in EVERY build nowadays in tombs: Lots of anti-warrior (Wards, multiple Aegis' etc.)
Yet somehow this is OK?
IWAY rules the metagame, like it or not, any build that cant counter IWAY in some way is not a viable build.
Every other type of build that has caused this has gotten a severe swat with the nerf bat. (However the normal FOTMs that come and go have not, people make a build, win with it, people figure out the "easy" counters and the old FOTM dies, and a new one rises, thats normal. It is NOT normal for one build to be completely dominating how the FOTM changes.
Like it or not ANet, IWAY has to be somehow removed from pvp, and even then, the tombs portion of pvp may never recover to where it couldve been.

Theres my little raving, If you dont like my ideas, feel free to say so, however, saying "THT IDAE SUX, U NOOB" is not viable criticism, if you think an idea wont/cant work, im more than willing to listen to your side.

-Wrynn

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EDIT:
Forgot to add something:
The ability to reroll IN PVP TOWNS (with pvp only characters) would be nice too, talk to a NPC and can swap runes, weapons, armor, secondary, etc.
The recently added secondary changer in great temple is long overdue IMO.

SisterMercy · Jul 28, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrynn

Ok, I'll start with:

---One: Materials Storage! Great idea! Poorly executed!
...

Has it been executed? All I have is a single-tab "Item Storage."

Wrynn · Jul 28, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Go to kaineng and you can buy your materials storage (only if you have factions of course)

Goats17 · Jul 28, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

You have to buy it at Kai Center.

SisterMercy · Jul 28, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Ah, thanks.

Quote:

Materials Storage! Great idea! Poorly executed!

Yes and no. My disappointment was that it's Factions-only. Something like this is a game enhancement, and should therefore be available in all chapters.

On the positive side, there's slots for all materials (and I assume it will expand as more materials become available), rather than simply 20 slots you can put only various materials into. I agree that it would be nice if the 250 cap could be exceeded, but I'm happy.

My guess is we'll see purchasable storage expansion. I don't know about scroll or dye storage -- I don't think these things occupied as much space as materials to qualify as a crisis. But storage expansion would solve those.

Tyggen · Jul 28, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

I can agree with most of what you're writing, much of it would be nice, but I don't really care if they expand storage or not. My characters are straining from the storage being full at all times, but I still think it works ok-ish as it is now, in the future (more slots) however I agree they need to expand it.

But...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrynn

Give all their "lightning damage" spells/skills 25% armor penetration.

They are underpowered, yes, but the ritualist bosses are insanely powerful against henchmen. Spirit Rift does upwards to 250 damage to my warrior, should I be stupid enough to be in one, and since henchmen have a tendency not to move out of aoe spell areas (as opposed to monsters) that would annihilate them completely. If they do that they should do something to lessen the damage the bosses do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterMercy

My disappointment was that it's Factions-only. Something like this is a game enhancement, and should therefore be available in all chapters.

Yes, this should be available for prophecies as well.

nightsquire · Jul 28, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

You sure do sound greatful!

nightsquire · Jul 28, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyggen

I can agree with most of what you're writing, much of it would be nice, but I don't really care if they expand storage or not. My characters are straining from the storage being full at all times, but I still think it works ok-ish as it is now, in the future (more slots) however I agree they need to expand it.

But...

They are underpowered, yes, but the ritualist bosses are insanely powerful against henchmen. Spirit Rift does upwards to 250 damage to my warrior, should I be stupid enough to be in one, and since henchmen have a tendency not to move out of aoe spell areas (as opposed to monsters) that would annihilate them completely. If they do that they should do something to lessen the damage the bosses do.

Yes, this should be available for prophecies as well.

Furthermore, communing rits are one of the most powerful pvp builds around right now (i imagine it will be nerfed), and vengful farmers are some of the most versitile and efficiant farming builds around.

You're wrong, ritual lords arent the only type of ritualist round, and ritual lord is not the only elite used. Have you ever heard of Vengeful Was Kahnei

fiery · Jul 28, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

All the things you stated has been stated before and IF a.net intends to implement ALL of this it would take some time.

TheLordOfBlah · Jul 29, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

I think you people try to hold too much garbage. "Oh we need storage for armor, dyes, materials, scrolls, blahblahbkjlab!" What the hell are you saving up 500 wood/whatever for anyways??? SELL IT WHEN YOU GET 250.

"You gave us material storage, wheres the dye storage? Honestly, do you really think people enjoy selling those oranges to the dye trader for 1-2g per?
"

The DYE TRADER, does not buy ANY dye for under 25 gold, last time I checked. If you want to be a reatard and sell to merchant for 1 gold be my guest, lack of storage isnt forcing you to do that however.

As for scrolls, why the hell do you need more than 250 of any kind of scroll? Are you planning on buying 15 character slots and power leveling them all to 20?

THese are big demands from people who hold massive ammounts of items, for no reason whatsoever.

/notsigned

Wrynn · Jul 29, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Nightsquire- communing rits in pvp arent as powerful as you may think, they are easily shut down, and without energy management (such as boon of create) they suffer badly with ritual lord (spirits are spendy when you cast them that fast)
Secondly to that, replacing your prot with a RL Ritualist you will suffer in pvp, as basically massive condition removal is needed. Period. This is not debatable. Hexes got majorly screwed with the last update(NR/Tranq builds anyone? Massive amount of new hex removal?) So conditions are even bigger in pvp atm. Without good, efficient condition removal, you will suffer.

As far as Lord of Blah - Reading only the first thing of each section of what i said, then responding to JUST THAT is NOT the way to comment on this post I made, if you GO BACK AND READ EVERYTHING AFTER THE LINE, you might realize that there IS a use for more than 250 of a common material (15k armor for MULTIPLE CHARACTERS?) last i checked, the average suit of 15k armor took 350 of a common material for a full suit, now multiply that by 5 + characters, say you have a couple casters? well, theres 1050 cloth that could potentially be used, right there.

For dyes? Ok, so i havent bothered to check that dye trader now buys for 25g, even still, I know LOTS of people who store up dye that way, when they DO want to change their characters colors, they arent forced into buying thousands of gold worth of dye when they could have easy access to it.

And, since you bothered to READ any of my post, ill say it again, since apparently I didnt word it clear enough.
Since Im asking for every other type of "stacked" item to have its own storage, might as well make slots for the six types of scrolls, just to save time.

Blah, dont comment on a post unless you have read it fully, you quite obviously didnt read half of it, then make some pointless rant about how you disagree with my ideas, because ZOMG WE HOLD SO MUCH GARBAGE.
Your garbage is stuff I want to save for future characters. You dont? Fine by you, dont buy the storage upgrades, I dont care.

To firey, I realize it would take some time (and im actually one of the first ones ever to talk about all this stuff way back in like june-july of last year), but I cannot fathom why they would give us a half-assed version of what something could be when its OBVIOUS people have been complaining about the lack of storage, basically since the second month.

I understand that GW was not intended to be as item heavy as it is. But it is. Like it or not. Its time to get with the program.

Wrynn · Jul 29, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyggen

... but the ritualist bosses are insanely powerful against henchmen. Spirit Rift does upwards to 250 damage to my warrior, ...

This part has nothing to do with how powerful / weak the players are, bosses do double damage to everything.
Ritualist player characters are still weak at everything BUT communing, and even communing isnt all that great.

As far as henchies and their ability to get completely destroyed by any boss with big dmg aoe, well thats a whole separate debate.
Go fight the discord boss, and have some fun with the 250-300 dmg deathly swarm.
(OT comment- it seems like the bosses dmg ranges on skills is NOT affected by a players/henchies armor at all, theoretically, a deathly swarm, dealing cold dmg should do LESS dmg to a ranger / warrior but it doesnt seem to be the case, in some cases, it seems to do MORE than double, but eh, again, a whole different argument / debate / whatever)

Flopjack · Jul 29, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Key Ring: Cool idea.

You don't need 8 million slots to keep all your stuff in storages. Sure it takes a lot of effort and space to get 15K armor and the special items you want, but that makes them all the more valuable.

However...

I do want them to add a REAL Guild Storage. When I first heard they were adding one I didn't expect a Xunlai Agent in my Guild Hall. (Though that is sometimes useful) I wanted something like a 30X30 storage space where the leader and the people of his or her choice could put their treasures in.

Giving all the Ritualist's Channeling spells armor penetration is not a good idea. The Elementalist's attributes are designed to flat out be the highest damage dealing character (in most cases) you can play. The entire Air Attribute is primarily about spiking and unloading a ton of damage on one target. Which is why they gave it armor pen. The mere fact that Ritualists have spells which they can use at a distance to inflict lightning damage makes them different. Ritualists aren't supposed to be a super powerful force. ANet doesn't design characters like that to make a new impression of awe of their mighty power. THE RITUALIST IS A SUPPORT CHARACTER, NOT AN ELEMENTALIST. They were never supposed to be powerful! Read their skills carefully, and note the damage they can deflect, not inflict. So if you pour your points into Channeling Magic is hopes of out damaging an Elmentalist and achived that, what would be the point of Air Magic? In fact, Channeling isn't just about damage to being with! If all you can see if just lightning damage then you are not reading the skills good enough.

Order of the Apostasy is not a broken skill. Yes, it has no recharge. And yes, mixing it up with Energizing Wind makes it very good.

Congradulations!

We just found another SKILL COMBO that works good. The very thing ANet intended for it's players to do! Why do you think there are 80 million skills in this game to begin with? Customization and strategy! It is all about team work and origionality. The skills which look hard to use or even useless, mixed with the right compliments can be amazing. It is one thing I like about Guild Wars so much!

Now IWAY can start taking your new skill combo.

This is another reason why spirits can't go overlooked. You see IWAY coming, they lay down Energizing winds. (which by the way, really hurts 5 mana, 10 mana spells, skills and signets.) So you automatically know they will use OoA, right? That just goes to show you may want to kill that spirit, to make that Necro suffer from their own mana cost. Oops! There is that strategy popping it's head up again. It's sneaky! Because believe it or not, the cookie cutter builds are not the only way to win! Instead of whining on how everything should be nerfed, think of a way to BEAT IT.

With that being said:

Yur ideas suxxors! noob!11!go home11!!!1!

Wrynn · Jul 29, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Flopjack-
As im sure you know, guild storage has been mentioned before, however, as im sure you know, the whole idea can get messed up really really badly, all you need is one bad seed in the guild to jack everything and leave, and you have problems

Yes, Ritualists are a support class, but then, so are eles. (Earth line?)
If they are supposed to be pure support, then why bother with the channeling line? All im saying is buff channeling magic so its actually USEABLE outside pve.

Order of Apostasy IS broken, for all the reasons I mentioned, and as far as me "giving the combo to IWAY" I say it BECAUSE THEY ALREADY USE IT.
Play against IWAY more and youll see why its broken, basically OoA is like old NR. way too powerful in the fact that it removes enchants from being a part of pve. (NR/Tranq does it differently)
Yes, you can go off and lose dmg output by having a warrior go kill EW, but guess what, theres an oath ranger right there ready and waiting to put up a new one.
The idea "oh just kill the spirit" works on paper, not in practice.

kab · Jul 29, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

However...

I do want them to add a REAL Guild Storage. When I first heard they were adding one I didn't expect a Xunlai Agent in my Guild Hall. (Though that is sometimes useful) I wanted something like a 30X30 storage space where the leader and the people of his or her choice could put their treasures in.

It would be tight if they made a new PVP mode where Guilds or Players had a storage where they would put money. Then when they are duking it out the winner gets something from the others storage. Add some risk and fun to the mix. Although there would need to be regulations on the items. But you could just have gold in a storage at a set amount. Anyone like the idea?

Flopjack · Jul 29, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Well I happen to know most of my guild personally, so I guess I didn't think about people stealing. You're right, they will have to develope a safe method first.

Ritualist's attribute of Channeling Magic is the only effective offensive spells they have. Some of which benefit spirits and other which work off of spirits to inflict more damage and what not various effects. Channeling also has a lot of ways for Ritualists to gain their mana back. Signet of Spirits, an elite signet which enables you to gain back mana per spirit that is in your area, is a VERY GOOD ELITE. No one uses it hardly, which I don't know why. You don't have to have Ritual Lord to make a useful PvP Ritualist, for one. That signet gains you a similar amount of mana as Energy Drain or Mantra of Recall, two very popular elites. Not to mention the Ritualist Elite is a Signet, so you can cast that with no cost and use other various skills to recharge it faster.

Ancestors Rage is another good skill which if people could master using, is basically a Melee Boon type of spell. You see people using Air of Enchantment and Zealots Fire to boost the damage of Warriors (Technically boosts their damage), Rage is a similar spell which spikes that damage faster (Higher damage all at once). You could easily get 200-300 damage out of that one 10 mana spell if a Warrior positioned themselves amongst enemies. People are always bunched together in Tombs (Heros Ascent), there is a good place to use that. Spirit siphon can be tagged on after using a few skills as a rit to drain the unused mana form your spirits to help refill your own supply. A properly place Destruction Spirit could do 100s of damage in a Tombs match if ignored. Channeling Magic isn't the strongest attribute, yes, but I don't think it is entirely meant for damage, or to be strong either.

I knew IWAY teams use OoA. I know what IWAY uses. You cannot keep OoA up indefinately even under energizing winds, the same way you cannot keep up Order of Pain up forever. Casting 10 mana that often eventually depleats a Necromacer's energy. However, even if you send that 1 warrior out to destroy that spirit and an IWAY necromancer casts OoA, they just used half, or more then likely over half of their mana on one spell. And I doubt that spirit would be up as fast as you say it is, because most of the IWAY groups I see, the Warriors bring the spirits, then they have the 2 Necros and 1 Ritualist or Trapper. Even if they did have an Oath Shot Ranger. Someone could bring Unnatural Signet and keep focused on those spirits which hurt the party the most. The casting times of the sprits would slow down the Ranger and the person who brought the signet would catch up and eliminate the spirits. Another thing you could do is bring out some old school nuking if they clump their spirits too close. Or if you want to get really tacky, after you kill the spirits, inturrupt the Ranger, so he can't lay down more.

actionjack · Jul 29, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

In rational thinking... especially with how things are now, it seem the only way to get extra storage space is to pay for it (with real money).

I am sure the Dev could expand the storage space with relative ease, and is very much aware of the cry for them. However, why is it not be? Why, even at best, we only get storage for materials, and only for Faction?

Storage space act more like a transition station, to transfer item between each character. The real storage space is the Character and thier pack, and of course, look who is selling them. If we do get more space, won't the boys at marketing question if that would reduce the possible sell of new character slot, or even extra games?

You cann't blam them for wanting to make buck, afterall, they got family to feed and Porsche to drive. But unless future evident show otherwise, that is just the rationality I see behind the lack of storage space.

Wrynn · Jul 29, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

IWAY warriors DONT bring the energizing, and if you are that out of it that you dont know that IWAY has oath rangers now, you shouldnt be commenting on how the skill is broken.

Secondary to that, a warrior CANNOT overextend to kill certain spirits / players, again, good on paper, horrible in practice.

Go play against smarter IWAYs and youll see why OoA is a broken skill.
Additionally, as far as the necros energy, if they are running 10 soul, then they are getting 5 energy per spirit, with two full time spirit spammers, thats more than enough to power OoA pretty much indefinently.

You simply miss the fact that the old NR was nerfed because it basically made enchants worthless, well, OoA is doing the same thing against iway.

IWAY used to be easy to kill, seed their focus, prot spirit their focus, whatever. now you are making prot monks basically useless because of that

As far as channeling magic, you will never see the elites you mentioned used on a ritualist in pvp. why? because then you would sacrifice ritual lord. the way the "good" spirits affect things (you only take 10% but spirit loses hp) theres a chart up that shows how many "hits" a spirit can take for the team before they die. Its not much. You need the faster recycle on spirits because their recharge is too long, and they lose effectiveness if shelter and union are only up for 10 out of every 60 seconds. (if that)

Stop looking at the paper, and start seeing the stuff in practice Ian Boyd.

Flopjack · Jul 29, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I don't know how the old NR worked, can you tell me? As far as I know it makes enchantments and Hexes takes 2 times the cast time.

I know IWAY doesn't bring energizing winds, it was a suggestion to make OoA better for them. Also, I have been in IWAY groups that do not use an Oath shot ranger. IWAY groups can vary slightly mixing and matching different strategies. Every IWAY group is not exactally like you describe.

Yes, Necromancer get about 5 mana per spirit that dies, but since they DONT use Energizing Winds (EW), that means the cost is 25, that is half their mana in one shot. You still say they can cast that about every 5 seconds and have enough mana? Maybe during the thick of battle, when people die and they recieve 10 mana possibly, but I'm not so sure about only getting 5 mana trying to keep up a 25 mana enchantment during the slower parts of a battle.

Monks and their protection enchantments aren't the only way to defend against IWAY. If you would have someone bring Ward Against Melee, you would cut IWAY's damage output in half. If they have 2 necromancer, and 2 spirit spammers, that leaves room for 4 warriors. Then if you use Well of the Profane, that renders the orders next to useless. If you can't beat 4 warriors with a Ward against Melee (which makes them technically 2 warriors if they are fighting in the Ward) with 5 or 6 people, something is up. And Ward Against Melee works in practice, right? I mean how many balanced groups ask for Warders? If you want to get really cheap, you can even use Ward against Foes too, and just run around in it if you are a Monk. IWAY has to come to you because all of its attacking is from Warriors. Stay in the Ward if you are a caster, and you will live twice as long.

I didn't mention Channeling EliteS, I mentioned one Channeling Elite. (Which tells me you DON'T know channeling enough. So if I know so little about OoA and I can't argue about why I think it is not a broken skill, why can you say why you think Channeling is underpowered, if you don't know enough about it?) The other spells were basic spells. The Signet of Spirits was the only elite I mentioned. And I guarentee I can make a Spirit last longer without using ritual lord. How? By using a 0 mana skill under spawning power. Signet of Creation. This non-elite signet gives your spirits 6-7 health regeneration. How dare I double or possibly triple their output with a skill that isn't Ritual Lord. There are other ways to get your spirits to recharge faster! For one, there are 2 ranger skills under wilderness survival that would help with the recharge: Serpents quickness, a stance which makes all your skills rcharge 33% faster. If you devise a stragtegy good enough, and I have seen people do this: They bring QZ and thenyou can slice off 50% of the recharge times of your spirits. With QZ, you will lay some heavy mana costs for the Order Necros, especially with OoA. You just gotta be creative. Think outside the box and past the mainstream.

I don't understand how you can say that sending someone out to mess with the spirit spammer(s) of IWAY can be a horrible move. Half of IWAY teams do not even attack hardly at all, and you say sacrificing 1 person from your team will screw you up?

And who the heck is Ian Boyd? Can you tell me that, Sharon Beckly?

Wrynn · Jul 29, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

I don't know how the old NR worked, can you tell me? As far as I know it makes enchantments and Hexes takes 2 times the cast time.

The old NR made all enchants and hexes drop upon cast completion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

I know IWAY doesn't bring energizing winds, it was a suggestion to make OoA better for them. Also, I have been in IWAY groups that do not use an Oath shot ranger. IWAY groups can vary slightly mixing and matching different strategies. Every IWAY group is not exactally like you describe.

Um, actually, pretty much every IWAY group follows Hopeless' lead, so when he starts using something / changes something, every IWAY tends to follow suit pretty quickly. EVERY IWAY that I have fought since math started using EW for their OoA necro has been using EW.
And minor variations dont count.
At this point in time, the staple IWAY:
N/Mo - OoP + heals (varying elites, HH seems to be the most prevalent
N/Mo - OoA + heals
R/Rt - Oath Spirits + ashes AoE rez
R/x - Trapper OR Rt Spirit spammer (WITH RITUAL LORD)
4 warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Yes, Necromancer get about 5 mana per spirit that dies, but since they DONT use Energizing Winds (EW), that means the cost is 25, that is half their mana in one shot. You still say they can cast that about every 5 seconds and have enough mana? Maybe during the thick of battle, when people die and they recieve 10 mana possibly, but I'm not so sure about only getting 5 mana trying to keep up a 25 mana enchantment during the slower parts of a battle.

They DO use energizing winds. This is not arguable, every IWAY that uses OoA has EW, period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Monks and their protection enchantments aren't the only way to defend against IWAY. If you would have someone bring Ward Against Melee, you would cut IWAY's damage output in half. If they have 2 necromancer, and 2 spirit spammers, that leaves room for 4 warriors. Then if you use Well of the Profane, that renders the orders next to useless. If you can't beat 4 warriors with a Ward against Melee (which makes them technically 2 warriors if they are fighting in the Ward) with 5 or 6 people, something is up. And Ward Against Melee works in practice, right?

-Yes, Ward Melee is GREAT on paper, but it DOESNT WORK AS WELL AS YOU SEEM TO THINK IN PRACTICE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

I mean how many balanced groups ask for Warders? If you want to get really cheap, you can even use Ward against Foes too, and just run around in it if you are a Monk. IWAY has to come to you because all of its attacking is from Warriors. Stay in the Ward if you are a caster, and you will live twice as long.

Yes kiting is common practice, so what? You are STILL talking about the "perfect" battle under "perfect" circumstances, which is NEVER how it works out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

I didn't mention Channeling EliteS, I mentioned one Channeling Elite. (Which tells me you DON'T know channeling enough.

I know enough to say its a weak and unused attribute because of its inherant flaws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

So if I know so little about OoA and I can't argue about why I think it is not a broken skill, why can you say why you think Channeling is underpowered, if you don't know enough about it?) The other spells were basic spells. The Signet of Spirits was the only elite I mentioned.

And its a worthless elite. Simply put, under pvp conditions, you wont have the ability to maintain spirits the way you apparently think you can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

And I guarentee I can make a Spirit last longer without using ritual lord. How? By using a 0 mana skill under spawning power. Signet of Creation. This non-elite signet gives your spirits 6-7 health regeneration. How dare I double or possibly triple their output with a skill that isn't Ritual Lord.

And thats why everyone brings breeze to tombs, right? Because 6-7 regen is GREATER THAN ALL SOURCES OF DAMAGE EVERZ!!1111!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

There are other ways to get your spirits to recharge faster! For one, there are 2 ranger skills under wilderness survival that would help with the recharge: Serpents quickness, a stance which makes all your skills rcharge 33% faster. If you devise a stragtegy good enough, and I have seen people do this: They bring QZ and thenyou can slice off 50% of the recharge times of your spirits. With QZ, you will lay some heavy mana costs for the Order Necros, especially with OoA. You just gotta be creative. Think outside the box and past the mainstream.

I dont know if you just IGNORE update notes or what, but recharge caps at 40% faster, which means you now have a 36 sec recharge under QZ/Serpents, again, both of which have HUGE penalties, so you get spirits back ALMOST as quick, so what? The REST OF YOUR BUILD HAS TO BE MODIFIED TO BE UNDER QZ. And you need a ranger to maintain it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

I don't understand how you can say that sending someone out to mess with the spirit spammer(s) of IWAY can be a horrible move. Half of IWAY teams do not even attack hardly at all, and you say sacrificing 1 person from your team will screw you up?

Sending someone out to solo a necro and trappers? Ok, trap bomb much? One warrior falls back and slaugters your warrior.
Again, you are looking at the PAPER, and NOT THE PRACTICE. If you fight R3 ish IWAYs, yeah, guess what, you can slaugter them senseless, easily, why? Because they dont have a clue about higher level tactics, but go face off against MATH and see how far that gets you. Send your warrior with no self heals out against IWAY necros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

And who the heck is Ian Boyd? Can you tell me that, Sharon Beckly?

Ian Boyd is a great forum devotee of strategy in the guild wars universe.
Despite the fact that he doesnt own the game, and can only make builds and call strategy on paper.

---------
I have a challenge for you.
Go watch observer mode.
Find me ONE top 100 guild with a communing ritualist using Signet of spirits with shelter union and displacement.
Why dont they use the bar you mentioned? Simply put- IT DOESNT WORK WELL. I guarantee if they had a better way to maintain spirits, they would be using it. These are people better than I, who have far more time to devote to figuring out how skills can interact with each other.

Secondary to that fact. You are wanting a rit to spec into 4 attributes?
Communing (for spirits) - Channeling (for your elite signet) - Spawning (which you need with spirits) - AND Wild Survive? (for serpents)
Doesnt work that way, sorry.

I can call it right now
Watch gvgs:
Warriors will have one of the following
Sword and charge / bulls charge (possibly some others due to the fact that sword warriors CAN have variable elites.)
Axe will have eviscerate
Hammer will have Dev or BB, POSSIBLY earthshaker, but doubtful.
Eles will be water and/or Air With Ether Prodigy. (and maybe an ele with a ward or two thrown in for fun.
Monks will most likely have either EDrain, Mantra of Recall, or Blessed Light.
Rangers will have apply poison, crip shot, interrupts, or possibly a bunny thumper.

Watch tombs:
Warriors will be either hammer or axe, with Dev/BB or Evi respectively
Eles will be Earth or Fire. dual attune or GoE.
Rangers will be Oath + spirits / traps || CGas + PStance + seeking || or thumping
Monks will have RC, SB, Word, Possibly healing light.

Seriously, seeing the stuff on paper, yeah, id agree with you, but it JUST DOESNT WORK IN PRACTICE.