Curse

Verkinix · Aug 11, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Hey All,

I thought I'd finally post some much needed updates for the henchmen as I've been playing since Jan(06) and the henchmen have been my allies more often then not. I like having them on PVE missions when I cant find people to group with or I just want to play solo. That said, they are really cumbersome and down right stupid most of the time. To show where I am coming from, my main character is an E/R. She is not built for tanking and yet thats what she gets used for 90% of the time in groups because there is no way to send a warrior henchman into battle first. I must say, I have gotten very good at tanking with "squishies" as I havent played a warrior as of yet.

Now, I have died waaay too much in this game due to lack of being able to have even the slightest control over the "henchies". It makes it very cumbersome to get 60dp a quarter of the way through a mission because they werent attacking the right target or the healer rez'es me just before she dies and I am left with another 15dp added to my total. I cant count the number of times I have been at normal and gotten to 60dp in a single battle because the healer stops healing to res me. Further, when I die, one of the most annoying things in GW is the henchies that were all attacking the target I told them to attack, will all of a sudden stop attacking that target (which is almost dead) and they will all attack completely different targets. Can we say wipe?! I click frantically on the enemy they were attacking prior to my death, but they dont listen. These things just should not happen. I like to think of myself as a decent player and I have learned many of the ins and outs of henchie use, but I am still limited by my armor rating and having to attack first gaining all of the aggro on me when it should be on the fighters who I brought along for that soul purpose.

I've also been in a situation where I had 2 healers with me. We were attacking Chung the Attuned in the Undercity. Well his party wiped us many times over but on one of the wipes, it was simply torture. I died with all but my two healers. I was right on the border of where the enemies could hit me, but both healers were back far enough to not get any attention. This lead to them taking turns res'ing me and letting me die. For 10 minutes this went on! Finally i started inching my way forward toward the enemies as to get the healers in their range so they could kill them and we could start over. Still took about 5 minutes of resing and dying to get to that range. Now that is 15 minutes that could have been averted if I could have clicked on a healer and told them to attack the enemies. Even more so, I wouldnt have died 20 times with that single group if they would all focus attack on a single enemy like I had them doing prior to my death.

Ok, so this post wouldnt be very good if it didnt have some helpful suggestions to implement. I'm not saying make the henchies super uber, but simply useful. If a player could simply click a henchie and hold control and double click an enemy or something to send them in first, that would go a long way to fixing the henchie problem. If I could tell a healer to res or not to res me during a battle, that would be a significant improvement. Maybe just a flag marker saying, res me or dont res me. If all the enemies would STAY focused attack on one enemy after I die, oh how much better dying would be! Or have them all turn tail and run away when things get heated. The map drawing feature could even be used to state where you want a henchie to go. It would also be nice if I didnt have to push the attack button to get them to do something. I dont use my wand for attack. It is a stats only item so when I press 1 for my Flare, I am the only one attacking. The rest stand there and pick their noses until the enemies come close enough for them to finally do something. I know these border on necromancers and ritualists, but something must be done. I've done most of my missions solo with henchies because the groups I joined couldnt get the job done. I'm just tired of spending more time on the ground then actually playing the game.

I do hope this thread gets read by the devs and I hope some improvements get made to the henchies. I dont like the choice coming down to, "Well, do I take a group of humans that tend to quit if things are going well and we have to start over" or "Do I take the henchies who I can finish the mission with after spending 3 hours on the mission and 2 of those being face down in the dirt."

Thanks for reading my post.

unholy guardian · Aug 11, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

would be nice to delay the rez sometimes, ele bosses wipe henchmen like crazy >_>

Verkinix · Aug 11, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Hmm, I guess the henchmen issue isnt very important among the community lol. Oh well, I guess I will have to continue to deal with the stupidity of the henchmen. It is a relatively new concept in MMORPGs so it may take a game or two for the devs to get it right. I know the purpose of an MMO to be online based and thus grouping is what they are going for, but I prefer SP with option to group. Dungeon Siege is really the only other RP game that I can think of off hand where I can play a campaign with a friend or do it solo. Sadly, that was a play once and never play again game. GW is alot more fun, but I just want to be able to play solo without dying more then half the time due to henchies not doing what I want them to. Alas, I digress. Please do give comments on this issue. I am curious to see if people feel the same as me or if they are satified with henchies when they use them.

Thanks!

gamecube187 · Aug 12, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verkinix

Hmm, I guess the henchmen issue isnt very important among the community lol. Oh well, I guess I will have to continue to deal with the stupidity of the henchmen.

Are you kidding me? There are a lot of people that also think henchies should be improved! You might not be getting many replies just because this topic has probably been discussed a lot and many people don't want to restate their problems with henchies again.

I agree with everything you have said and think they shouldbe fixed/added, enspecially the rez/don't rez button. You wouldn't believe how many times I have failed in missions because I tried to rez a henchie without agroing a group and then the healer henchies just run to the person to rez and agros the enemy and then causes all the other hencheis to die doing so. Then, usually the enemies just stand over where the henchies died and I have no choice but to die trying to rez, or just give up and restart.

You forgot one really anoying, but also really rare thing though (luckily). It is when you and one of the healer henchies die sorta far apart and then the other healer henchie just runs back and forth, inbetween you two, and just when it is about to get close enough to start rezing you, then it suddenly turns around to go to the henchie, and then it turns back to you, and keeps doing it untill you finally just quit. It also happens when you are playing with one friend and henchies, and both you and your friend die. The worst part is, this only seems to happen to me or people I know at the very end of hard missions/quests, when you are about 1 enemy group away from winning.

/signed to anything that will make henchies smarter in some way

Silver_Fang · Aug 12, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verkinix

Hey All,

I thought I'd finally post some much needed updates for the henchmen as I've been playing since Jan(06) and the henchmen have been my allies more often then not. I like having them on PVE missions when I cant find people to group with or I just want to play solo. That said, they are really cumbersome and down right stupid most of the time. To show where I am coming from, my main character is an E/R. She is not built for tanking and yet thats what she gets used for 90% of the time in groups because there is no way to send a warrior henchman into battle first. I must say, I have gotten very good at tanking with "squishies" as I havent played a warrior as of yet.

Actually, there is a way to send the henchie into battle before you do, its the call target function, ctrl + shift + space by default. The one that dont attack, cos you dont want to move into the battlefield yet.

Now, I have died waaay too much in this game due to lack of being able to have even the slightest control over the "henchies". It makes it very cumbersome to get 60dp a quarter of the way through a mission because they werent attacking the right target or the healer rez'es me just before she dies and I am left with another 15dp added to my total. I cant count the number of times I have been at normal and gotten to 60dp in a single battle because the healer stops healing to res me. Further, when I die, one of the most annoying things in GW is the henchies that were all attacking the target I told them to attack, will all of a sudden stop attacking that target (which is almost dead) and they will all attack completely different targets. Can we say wipe?! I click frantically on the enemy they were attacking prior to my death, but they dont listen. These things just should not happen. I like to think of myself as a decent player and I have learned many of the ins and outs of henchie use, but I am still limited by my armor rating and having to attack first gaining all of the aggro on me when it should be on the fighters who I brought along for that soul purpose.

This is right, you cannot die or the henchie simply gone insane and went into a choas state, bestr way is to go with a friend and the rest henchie.

I've also been in a situation where I had 2 healers with me. We were attacking Chung the Attuned in the Undercity. Well his party wiped us many times over but on one of the wipes, it was simply torture. I died with all but my two healers. I was right on the border of where the enemies could hit me, but both healers were back far enough to not get any attention. This lead to them taking turns res'ing me and letting me die. For 10 minutes this went on! Finally i started inching my way forward toward the enemies as to get the healers in their range so they could kill them and we could start over. Still took about 5 minutes of resing and dying to get to that range. Now that is 15 minutes that could have been averted if I could have clicked on a healer and told them to attack the enemies. Even more so, I wouldnt have died 20 times with that single group if they would all focus attack on a single enemy like I had them doing prior to my death.

What i do is stay back and let the henchie do the dirty work, once 1/4 of the group is dispatch, you are fairly safe to enter the battle.

Ok, so this post wouldnt be very good if it didnt have some helpful suggestions to implement. I'm not saying make the henchies super uber, but simply useful. If a player could simply click a henchie and hold control and double click an enemy or something to send them in first, that would go a long way to fixing the henchie problem. If I could tell a healer to res or not to res me during a battle, that would be a significant improvement. Maybe just a flag marker saying, res me or dont res me. If all the enemies would STAY focused attack on one enemy after I die, oh how much better dying would be! Or have them all turn tail and run away when things get heated. The map drawing feature could even be used to state where you want a henchie to go. It would also be nice if I didnt have to push the attack button to get them to do something. I dont use my wand for attack. It is a stats only item so when I press 1 for my Flare, I am the only one attacking. The rest stand there and pick their noses until the enemies come close enough for them to finally do something. I know these border on necromancers and ritualists, but something must be done. I've done most of my missions solo with henchies because the groups I joined couldnt get the job done. I'm just tired of spending more time on the ground then actually playing the game.

I do hope this thread gets read by the devs and I hope some improvements get made to the henchies. I dont like the choice coming down to, "Well, do I take a group of humans that tend to quit if things are going well and we have to start over" or "Do I take the henchies who I can finish the mission with after spending 3 hours on the mission and 2 of those being face down in the dirt."

Thanks for reading my post.

Anyway, i do hope they improve the henchie AI, it is just unacceptable.

easyg · Aug 12, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

It's interesting that the henchie AI is bad as it is.

Classic games like _Baldur's Gate 2_ allowed you to customize NPC behavior down to what spell your NPC mage would cast when he sighted an enemy. But even the basic AI was quite good. And best of all, Baldur's Gate allowed the player to take direct control of NPCs at anytime.

Wish GW had sometime like that. But it doesn't and it never will.

Verkinix · Aug 12, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Reply to Gamecube187:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamecube187

You forgot one really anoying, but also really rare thing though (luckily). It is when you and one of the healer henchies die sorta far apart and then the other healer henchie just runs back and forth, inbetween you two, and just when it is about to get close enough to start rezing you, then it suddenly turns around to go to the henchie, and then it turns back to you, and keeps doing it untill you finally just quit. It also happens when you are playing with one friend and henchies, and both you and your friend die. The worst part is, this only seems to happen to me or people I know at the very end of hard missions/quests, when you are about 1 enemy group away from winning.

Wouldnt you know it, this JUST happened to me! End of pretty tough mission, I die, the whole group dies spread across the ground and the two remaining henchies run back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, never to res and no way to set the timer for the res station. /resign and I have lost all of my progress on two missions as well as being close to the new area that I must now start over to unlock.

I'm sorry if I sounded short earlier, that wasnt my intent. I was actually using a quick reply to bump the thread. I do realize that this topic must have been covered by many over the life of the game. I just figured a fresh thread might help. We almost need to get a formal petition going to get anyone to listen. The henchies are quite broken and at 2am, none of my 5 few friends are on so I am forced to hench. I'm not gonna get into the integrity of far too many people playing the game and leading me to play solo. Thats beyond the scope of this thread.

In response to silver fang:

Thanks for letting me know about ctrl-shift-space. I had no idea about that as I've not read it in the manual or on several sites I've visited. I may have just missed it or something. Further, I would love to play with friends over henchies any day, but at 2am, no one is ever on lol. I have been experimenting with the henchies recently to try and get better performance out of them. It's just so frustrating when they cant follow the simplest of tasks.

Alrighty, enough of my rantings. If anyone wants to group sometime, I'm more then happy to. My char info is under my Avatar, so I should be easy enough to find. I simply want to make progress in the story and enjoy playing without dying a million times every mission. I do appreciate everyones replies. We can only hope that Anet will pay some attention since they dont have a suggestion system anywhere near their own website.

Trunce · Aug 12, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I would love to have it. I was on a run last night, and it was me, my friend, and henchies. He ran it, and I stood by the portal. I went AFK for 2 minutes, and some how, the henchies pretty much stayed by me. Maybe it was a glitch, but I know it annoyed him.
I finaly want to use a meat shield as a.. meat shield.
I'm all for it

bigwig · Aug 12, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

well there have been allusions to henchmen improvements in nightfall. although i can't remember a link to post here.

BowLad21 · Aug 12, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Henchmen can't be improved yet, anet says it is for balance, but it is obviously a lack of AI experience. Even normal mobs have glitches, like an avicara following me half way across the map to cast fragility, then getting stuck on the way back. Guild Wars didn't spend enough time on the AI, and they won't admit it.

Racthoh · Aug 12, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

well there have been allusions to henchmen improvements in nightfall. although i can't remember a link to post here.

Customizable Heroes (party NPCs) that level up with the player, follow player instructions in combat, and use armor, weapons, and skills of the player’s choice.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10010335

vinegrower · Aug 12, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Customizable Heroes (party NPCs) that level up with the player, follow player instructions in combat, and use armor, weapons, and skills of the player’s choice.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10010335

In case you hadn't noticed, that line has been removed from EBGames' website. Not that it means anything, but just saying that it is not there anymore.

Racthoh · Aug 12, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Didn't check the link, just remembered there had been a post on here with that information.

Fearful Bab3 · Aug 12, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Yes nice idea there mate

Verkinix · Aug 14, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Thanks for the replies. I really hope they do improve the henchies in Nightfall. They are long overdue. I've had a few more annoying episodes with henchies in the 2 hours I've been playing since I got home. I do, however, like that I can hold shift-ctrl-space and they will rush in first, but its still very rudimentary. Anyway, feel free to keep posting your opinions. Feel free to add other suggestions as well. Things I have not covered or had happen to me (yet). Thanks again.