Curse

idkzero · Aug 22, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

The only thing lux has to do is talk to the turtles and rush building and the occassional take back mines, but mostly rush gate. Thats like.. 100x easier on them then it is the kurz. We have to defend the base AND run back and forth with Amber in our hands, *cannot* defend ourselves as we are minus 2 or more on the runners? commm'on anet. atleast give us something better than juggs that sit there and look stupid. their damn turtles don't even have to get that close AND they use siege weapons?! AND they get warriors that KD and chase you to the end of the earth?!? No wonder Lux doesn't run Jade, they have a bigger margin of winning at fort aspen. Runners taking damage, dying at bigger rates. The respawn on the lux should be slightly longer than the Kurzick atleast.

Shrouded Waffle · Aug 22, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

How many of these threads will there be?!

This should be in the "Alliance" section, where all the other threads bitching about aspenwood go. Don't make new threads about this, just post in the other thousands of aspenwood topics.

/endrant

Matsumi · Aug 22, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I don't see anything wrong with a suggestion being in a suggestion section of the forum. Although it could be worded differently. How many "fix the ele" threads are floating around? lol, there's even one in the nightfall section.

Anyway, I kind of agree that the base could use some better defenses of it's own. Maybe some catapults or something to seige the turtles on the way to the base?

Terra Xin · Aug 23, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

You can easily win this mission if everyone ran amber, its just that too many people dont like having their only task to run amber while their NPC friends are doing all of the killing. Kurzicks have two effective tasks - Run amber, and kill the turtles. Everyone else can be killed by NPC's who should respawn at a quick rate if more than 1 person runs amber.

Normal mines commit to 2% of the total while the Refined mine supplies 5% of the total, people complain about Luxons winning too quickly? There's the solution, you can have all 8 people rush the mines and before you know it you're up by 40%, not too hard to do.

Parson Brown · Aug 23, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Having played both sides extensively, the Lux side is easier for an unorganized team.

However, I've been on Luxon teams that barely broke the inner Orange/purple gates because the Kurzicks took the fight out to us instead of waiting huddled inside. Use your advantages. Keep spellcasters/rangers on the wall casting down on the invaders. Do what you can to protect the gate guards. Interrupt/kill turtles. Take mines so Lux have farther to go. etc.

vaxmor · Aug 23, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

cry more.

Opeth11 · Aug 23, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaxmor

cry more.

We will. Happy now?

Meeper · Aug 23, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't, and there isnt much Areana Net can do to make people smarter.

I think one small buff they could do is make capturing command points useful. At this point it's useless, and I see so many newbies in Aspenwood adamantly refuse to harvest amber becuase they feel that holding command points gives them a real advantage, despite the fact that the turtles are still alive and well killing the few of the Kurzicks that are running amber. A good first step would be to make command points a harder to recapture. Adding like a priest and a juggernaught in addition to the necro and ranger there would leave command points susecptible to degen and AoE, but allow the points to remain in kurzick hands long enough for them to be at least somewhat useful. This would also force a strategic element on the Luxons, giving them an extra incentive to keep turtles alive, and help Kurzicks by drawing away Luxon players to recapture command points.

Curse You · Aug 23, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeper

In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't, and there isnt much Areana Net can do to make people smarter.

I think one small buff they could do is make capturing command points useful. At this point it's useless, and I see so many newbies in Aspenwood adamantly refuse to harvest amber becuase they feel that holding command points gives them a real advantage, despite the fact that the turtles are still alive and well killing the few of the Kurzicks that are running amber. A good first step would be to make command points a harder to recapture. Adding like a priest and a juggernaught in addition to the necro and ranger there would leave command points susecptible to degen and AoE, but allow the points to remain in kurzick hands long enough for them to be at least somewhat useful. This would also force a strategic element on the Luxons, giving them an extra incentive to keep turtles alive, and help Kurzicks by drawing away Luxon players to recapture command points.

How about we not do that because it would actually create an imblalance. It's anoying enough to kill a ranger and a necro.

I think the problem is that too many people whine because half the people are using PvE builds in a PvP fight. A PvE build is still better at attacking than it is at running amber and keeping NPCs alive. The real problem is that there are many ignorant/dumb players who don't get what PvP is or how the Mission is played.

GloryFox · Aug 23, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

posted by Meeper
In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't,

Thus by your statement the proof that Luxans have it easier. I run aspenwood for fun alot and play on the Kurzak side. I win about 1/5 because Kurzak players just don't get it. Even if they do get it its a 50/50% assuming all players participate and no leechers are present.

NinjaKai · Aug 23, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeper

In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't, and there isnt much Areana Net can do to make people smarter.

Unfortunately most of those idiots don't see Gunther who explains what you do.

Terra Xin · Aug 23, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

PvE builds are based on killing targets, and if PvE serves its purpose, playing a defensive role would be a first, which will leave the players dumbfounded for the first few times until they actually realise what it is they actually have to do. On the luxon side you can get away with no knowing what to do... you just follow the turtles, if they blow something up, then it must be a good thing, so you go and help. but there is absolutely no way for a Kurzick to tell that they have to run amber unless they follow another player, or unless someone tells them, or unless they bother to talk to Durheim and get the details that way.

Luxon is straightforward, Kurzick isn't, that is your imbalance.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 23, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by idkzero

The respawn on the lux should be slightly longer than the Kurzick atleast.

It is, the luxons spawn either all the way back or at the mines. The Kurzick get to spawn right on the the objective they have to defend and have the gates to quickly travel to different parts of thier defense.

The Kurzicks can generally get to where they need to be quicker than the Luxs can.

Silver_Fang · Aug 23, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

It is, the luxons spawn either all the way back or at the mines. The Kurzick get to spawn right on the the objective they have to defend and have the gates to quickly travel to different parts of thier defense.

The Kurzicks can generally get to where they need to be quicker than the Luxs can.

Obviously we can spawn right next to the battle field, when you ARE at the GREEN GATE.

If you took Amber Mine, you spawn right next to our purple or orange gate. You can just rush the gate.

Quote:

Unfortunately most of those idiots don't see Gunther who explains what you do.

And unfortunately, they tell us to capture the command point which is useless.

Luxon is easier because they are straight foward, and if 2 good team fighting each other, the attacker still have advantage. Kurzick are force to be spread, whereas Luxon is concentrated. The base NPC are too spread and easily picked, the Kurzick Player are force to be spread for running Amber.

Hex Nexus · Aug 23, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

bonding ftw? speed buffs ftw? attacking seige turtle ftw?

Numa Pompilius · Aug 23, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

I just realized... you're talking about Fort Aspenwood the co-op mission?

The one I won six times out of seven yesterday as a Kurzick? And 8 out of 10 the day before?

Unbalanced in favor of Luxons?!

Now, maybe I'm just so uber that simply having my poisoning interrupt ranger show up in a battle changes the battle in Kurzicks favor, but as much as I'd like to believe that... a simple reality check suggests the reality is that Kurzicks win most battles.

Play defensively, kill/interrupt the turtles, gg hf.

EDIT: But whoever designed that fortress should be tried for treason. A fortress where you can't get up on the ramparts to attack he enemy outside? A fortress with two gates but no quick way to run between them? Feh! Obviously the architect was a mole for the Luxons!

Silver_Fang · Aug 23, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I just realized... you're talking about Fort Aspenwood the co-op mission?

The one I won six times out of seven yesterday as a Kurzick? And 8 out of 10 the day before?

Unbalanced in favor of Luxons?!

Now, maybe I'm just so uber that simply having my poisoning interrupt ranger show up in a battle changes the battle in Kurzicks favor, but as much as I'd like to believe that... a simple reality check suggests the reality is that Kurzicks win most battles.

Play defensively, kill/interrupt the turtles, gg hf.

EDIT: But whoever designed that fortress should be tried for treason. A fortress where you can't get up on the ramparts to attack he enemy outside? A fortress with two gates but no quick way to run between them? Feh! Obviously the architect was a mole for the Luxons!

you can atack the enemy outside. Maybe you need to play more Aspenwood.

And interupting turtle and kil it is easy most of the time when your opposing team are clueless, maybe im just unlucky or you are lucky, everytime i play as an interupter, the opposing team will have a necro or MM or Assasin with AoD that Degen, even Elementalist with burning and KD.

Caged Fury · Aug 23, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Fang

If you took Amber Mine, you spawn right next to our purple or orange gate. You can just rush the gate.

That's why the Kurzicks should always take back control of the mines. The mines provide amber to repair gates, and stops Luxons from spawning there. Both of which slows down their advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Fang

And unfortunately, they tell us to capture the command point which is useless.

Taking their command points does have its uses. If the turtle and friends are killed then a Luxon player have to return to the command point to send off a new gang. Not easily done if there are Kurzick NPCs guarding it. Again, the aim is to slow down their advance. The mistake that most Kurzick team makes is sending the entire team of players to take them and at the most inappropriate times. It only needs one or two people to take a command point.

Even though I do find the turtles and warriors do too much damage, I wouldn't say that the map is unbalance enough that changes are required.

Alot of my time at FA, I play on the Kurzick side and win 90% of the matches. When I'm not bonding with my monk, whether I'm a Mesmer, Ranger or Warrior, I'm out capturing mines, running amber and repairing gates. Once in a while I may go kill a Luxon or two, or nab a command point, but I don't let them distract me from running amber. Oh and I never give Gunther amber if there are gates down, it's less beneficial than repairing a gate.

Shadwu · Aug 23, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hex Nexus

bonding ftw? speed buffs ftw? attacking seige turtle ftw?

Rend Ench ftl, crip ranger ftl, healing "seige turtle" ftl

Numa Pompilius · Aug 23, 2006, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Fang

you can atack the enemy outside. Maybe you need to play more Aspenwood.

Not effectively. There's a few spots you can reach with longbow, but normally the enemy wont be kind enough to linger there.

What you can, and should, do, is stand on the sides of the corridor between the gates, and poison/interrupt the enemies below. There's no reason a turtle should manage to fire even once if there's an interrupt ranger on the walls of the corridor.

Quote:

And interupting turtle and kil it is easy most of the time when your opposing team are clueless, maybe im just unlucky or you are lucky, everytime i play as an interupter, the opposing team will have a necro or MM or Assasin with AoD that Degen, even Elementalist with burning and KD.

If you're a RANGED fighter with the longest range weapon in the game AND height advantage, what the heck are you doing standing where an assassin or minion can get at you?
Anyway, I'm not saying that Kurzicks have an unassailable advatage in Aspenwood, I'm saying that neither do the Luxons.

"Kite, Gunther, Kite!"