Curse

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

As for customizing weapons, you can. And yes, realistically! And even in the private and serene surroundings of your own guild hall, both a pvp and a pve character can do this. Please prepare your statements with fact, before filling these threads with fiction if you have not determined the truth of the matter beforehand.

Not every guild hall has the NPCs. Its not native to the PvP areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

You are also, able to twink any item you wish, from your storage onto your pvp character. A rockmolder, a particular staff that strikes your fancy. Stop trying to imply that you cannot do these things without ease. These items are not auto customized. The only way you will lose them, is if you re-roll, and forget to remove them from the pvp characters inventory, or if you had customized the item and have now rendered it useless by re-rolling.

Ok...so where did you get that rockmolder? PvE.

You either:

Got it as a drop. Meaning you farmed SF.

or

Bought it from another player. Theres almost no people who sell things in PvP areas. This option is difficult without a PvE char. Oh and dont forget you need money.

or

someone gave it to you. Ok..you're lucky if you it was this one.

So you have items in your storage. Good weapons you intend to use for your PvP char. How do you expect to battle without customizing it? We have a gh with a weaponsmith NPC. Ok cool so far.

Now you PvP char has enough weapons to rival a PvE character. You play this pvp char for a while and have moderate/decent success.

Thats great. Now Anet drops a new update. The meta game has changed, and suddenly you have to change your build needs tweaking. Now you need a different attribute helm/superior rune.

Thats no problem, just reroll.

But we were using some PVE items that we customized. Meaning they are worthless if we reroll, since they were customized. All the money on those perfect mods gone.

So whats the PvE-P char gonna do? He can just swap. Multiple helmets. Multiple armor sets. Multiple weapon sets. Switch attributes. Ok, all done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I neither disagree with the statement, or agree with it because I never said that, ever, not one time in any of these 5 pages. Show me a post I made where I said "pve'rs have an advantage'. If you are going to set 'traps', make sure the bait exists.

Although you do not explicitly say that "pve'rs have an advantage" as some posters on this thread have, you do acknowledge that they have the ability to swap armor sets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

If they want to switch their armors mid battle. let them. If they want to open their inventory to change runes, let them. They worked their ass off for it too.

This ability is present in a PvE char and not a PVP char and is one of the advantages that we have been discussing.

Selket · Jul 12, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

That hardly allows for any flexibility at all with item selection.

Let's look at a monk, for example.

- You need a dual fast recharge set, wand and focus. That's one slot right there.

- You need +energy sword and general purpose focus, second slot.

- You need a +30/-2 energy set, third slot.

- You need a negative energy set, fourth slot.

Can you do that at the moment? No.

You need more than that anyway, so locking the inventory isn't going to help.

(+10 armor staff, +60hp set, sometimes you only want the +15 energy out of the total +30 incase of edenial, ect ect)

My real point is that if you're locking the inventory up, 4 sets is not enough because that alone only gives you JUST enough for the 4 items you're already given, I'd need something along the lines of sixteen or more (for warrior especially) weapon sets for any of my characters just to be SURE I'm completely prepared for all situations, instead of just having the 4 sets I have now and ocassionally switching things out on one or the other. Unless ANet wants to clutter the UI with more and more weapon sets, they'll keep the inventory unlocked, it doesn't require Anet to do anything.

EDIT -- I'd like to add that ANet trashed Skill > Time Spent as soon as they introduced faction and unlocks and didn't introduce some sort of UAX button or something.

Big_L · Jul 12, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

As for customizing weapons, you can. And yes, realistically! And even in the private and serene surroundings of your own guild hall, both a pvp and a pve character can do this. Please prepare your statements with fact, before filling these threads with fiction if you have not determined the truth of the matter beforehand.

You are also, able to twink any item you wish, from your storage onto your pvp character. A rockmolder, a particular staff that strikes your fancy. Stop trying to imply that you cannot do these things without ease. These items are not auto customized. The only way you will lose them, is if you re-roll, and forget to remove them from the pvp characters inventory, or if you had customized the item and have now rendered it useless by re-rolling.

Talk about realism, there it all is, laid out rather nicely for you.

had I been able to log onto guild wars, I would've checked the ability to customize weapons for pvp chars myself, but as my point stands regardless, I posted.

anyway, the problems with assuming PvP chars currently have the same items available to them as PvE characters:

1) not all players have guilds
2) not all guild halls have weapon smiths
3) only viable with offhands and shields
4) not possible for most weapons due to losing it when rerolling
5) no weapon smith in most pvp areas, just plain inconvenient
6) MANY items will get deleted
7) not possible to get multiple armor sets
8) requires the items are obtained through pve
9) still requires high pve activity to be equal in pvp, not fixing the problem at all.
-off the top of my head

It is obviously absurd to say that PvP created characters and PvE created characters are on the same footing regarding items. After going through certain rather inconvenient processes, it is possible that they can *slightly* improve. This is assuming that the PvPers have money and the means to get these items through PvE to begin with.

My question then becomes...why? Why not impliment these items in the PvP screen, or limit the PvE characters to that of a PvP char in combat areas? It promotes fair and equal play in the best interests of the game. What is it about making pvp and pve chars equal that you are so opposed to?

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Thats great. Now Anet drops a new update. The meta game has changed, and suddenly you have to change your build needs tweaking. Now you need a different attribute helm/superior rune.

Thats no problem, just reroll.

But we were using some PVE items that we customized. Meaning they are worthless if we reroll, since they were customized. All the money on those perfect mods gone.

So whats the PvE-P char gonna do? He can just swap. Multiple helmets. Multiple armor sets. Multiple weapon sets. Switch attributes. Ok, all done.

As the saying goes, and forgive me for being so crass... "shit happens" Ever since the mm nerfs I have ceased playing the build at all. Gone are hundreds of thousands of gold I had spent on that build. Like everyone else, I chose to suck it up and move on. It is not that hard to do.

Customization is a choice. If you are not secure with customizing a weapon, then do not do so. PvP have free item unlocks (in the form of faction), and you can make a pvp axe and stick 20/20 or cruel, or barbed, or vamp, or zealous, of furious and fortitude on it for -free-. Kick some ass in halls, win some sigils, and buy another one on the pve side if you want to replace what you lost that much.

I see you completely dodged the fact you placed words in my mouth in your previous post as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_L

It is obviously absurd to say that PvP created characters and PvE created characters are on the same footing regarding items. After going through certain rather inconvenient processes, it is possible that they can *slightly* improve. This is assuming that the PvPers have money and the means to get these items through PvE to begin with.

My question then becomes...why? Why not impliment these items in the PvP screen, or limit the PvE characters to that of a PvP char in combat areas? It promotes fair and equal play in the best interests of the game. What is it about making pvp and pve chars equal that you are so opposed to?

I already said that pvp creation should have 4 choices of weapons (four complete slot sets), and they should have armor crafters only for them at the staging areas. You must have breezed right by that without stopping.

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

As the saying goes, and forgive me for being so crass... "shit happens" Ever since the mm nerfs I have ceased playing the build at all. Gone are hundreds of thousands of gold I had spent on that build. Like everyone else, I chose to suck it up and move on. It is not that hard to do.

Customization is a choice. If you are not secure with customizing a weapon, then do not do so. pvp have free item unlocks and you can make a pvp axe and stick 20/20 or cruel, or barbed, or vamp, or zealous, of furious and fortitude on it for -free-. Kick some ass in halls, win some sigils, and buy another one on the pve side if you want to replace what you lost that much.

Yes, shit happens, but as you can see, the PvP char is disadvantaged with dealing with the situation vs the more adaptable PvE char. Your MM example is a prime example of adaptability of players in this game.

And imo, customization is NOT a choice in PvP. You have to customize your weapons if you are a weapon damage class if you want to be successful.

So why not lock the inventory? You yourself consider it not a major issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

4 of the 8 members of the last pride were pvp characters only.. It really didn't seem that this was a major issue in their win against WM. This folks, is the top shelf of pvp and I don't think the monks armor is what won the matches for them. It was strategy and preperation.

Obviously they wont miss the inventory. If its a not a major issue, why are you against it?

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

So why not lock the inventory? You yourself consider it not a major issue.

Edit: nm.. I'm done with this thread.. I stated my case and it makes sense. If people want to read common sense, they can scroll back the 5 pages.

For the last time, leave inventories alone... now, I'm off to GvG.

As another saying goes;

"those who can, do, and those who can't, talk about it"

Age · Jul 12, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I don't know if I am for this as PvP char can use 4 set of weapons and if they included a secound set of armor for them to change into then then they could without locking the inventories.This can all be done be the pvp creation screen.I would say that pve char have 2 or 3 sets of armorbut thiere weapons are still not on par with pvp char.They are starting to but at a high cost and this is suppose to be competive game.

JR · Jul 12, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Edit: nm.. I'm done with this thread.. I stated my case and it makes sense. If people want to read common sense, they can scroll back the 5 pages.

For the last time, leave inventories alone... now, I'm off to GvG.

As another saying goes;

"those who can, do, and those who can't, talk about it"

I have yet to hear a reason why inventory locking is a bad solution. If you actually want to provide one before your dramatic departure, please do.

Dougal Kronik · Jul 13, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I have yet to hear a reason why inventory locking is a bad solution. If you actually want to provide one before your dramatic departure, please do.

It only benefits the PvP characters.

This is a poor direction to take in it's implementation. Instead of crippling the PvE characters - permit an expanded set of options for PvP characters. Allow them a second set of armor, up to 4 weapons and offhands, and encourage the players to learn to play as dynamically as the players who PvP with PvE characters.

Don't limit your options - ask for the versatility that is available to PvE characters.

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Jul 13, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Untrue, Buy it.

I don't see many people selling FFS's or nolani wands. I'm pretty sure many PvErs dont know what an FFS is and why you want it. Same goes for nolani wands.

dawnrain · Jul 13, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

ANet never promised equality. But they did try to design the game so that the inequalities were minimized to a point that all characters would be competetive. Would the outcome of a match between an all Roleplaying character team versus an all PvP character team be a foregone conclusion? Are the inequalities such that PvP characters are never used in the highest levels of PvP play?

That being said, I do think inventories should be locked. Not so much for the advantage that it provides, but because I don't think the designers intended armor swapping outside of towns. The interface doesn't provide for "armor sets," comparable to weapon sets so that players can swap armor at a push of a key. The designers modified the game to remove refund points and lock attribute point switching, but with armor switching limited attribute point switching is possible. I suspect that when armor benefits and drawbacks were designed they did not take into account the ability to switch armor. This allowed the possibility that in some instances players could receive the benefit with no drawbacks. I also think that not allowing armor switching, will allow for a greater variety of future armor attributes with the unavoidable drawbacks.

Chooby · Jul 13, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

so why should it affect you too much if it stays the way it is?

It would affect me if it stay the way it is, because simply ANet is running out of weapon mods, so they will add some awsome weapon mod in Chap 3 and it will most likely be PvE only, thus making the PvPers jelous. If it stays the way it is, my using a PvP char is limiting my options, and gives a PvE char the edge.

Rieselle · Jul 13, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

ANet never promised equality. But they did try to design the game so that the inequalities were minimized to a point that all characters would be competetive. Would the outcome of a match between an all Roleplaying character team versus an all PvP character team be a foregone conclusion? Are the inequalities such that PvP characters are never used in the highest levels of PvP play?

That being said, I do think inventories should be locked. Not so much for the advantage that it provides, but because I don't think the designers intended armor swapping outside of towns.

I agree. The common-sense attitude would be that the power difference between PvE and PvP characters is reasonable tradeoff for convenience and flexibility, and is so slight anyway that it isnt a factor except in the closest matches at the highest levels. The problem is mostly psychological, there's some sort of wierd entitlement / lack of confidence / OCD vibe coming from people who complain that they are forced to "grind for 100s of hours to be competitive".

Having said that, I dont like armour swapping purely for the aesthetics of it. It's silly to be able to change your armour during battle. If they wanted it to be a proper part of the game, they should make a fairer and more well-thought out mechanic for it. If not, get rid of it.

JR · Jul 13, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

It only benefits the PvP characters.

This is a poor direction to take in it's implementation. Instead of crippling the PvE characters - permit an expanded set of options for PvP characters. Allow them a second set of armor, up to 4 weapons and offhands, and encourage the players to learn to play as dynamically as the players who PvP with PvE characters.

Don't limit your options - ask for the versatility that is available to PvE characters.

Er, it doesn't benefit PvP or PvE characters, it benefits the PvP side of the game as a whole. Does it always have to come down to OMG PVP BENEFITS WTF?

I am happy with the suggestion of adding in NPCs that let you add armor sets and so on, but I simply think that is far far FAR more hassle for anet than simply locking inventory.

No offense but half of the people objecting to this have no use for a PvP ready PVE character anyway...

Divineshadows · Jul 14, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

It only benefits the PvP characters.

This is a poor direction to take in it's implementation. Instead of crippling the PvE characters - permit an expanded set of options for PvP characters. Allow them a second set of armor, up to 4 weapons and offhands, and encourage the players to learn to play as dynamically as the players who PvP with PvE characters.

Don't limit your options - ask for the versatility that is available to PvE characters.

While the latest update did not affect armor swapping (or instead give multiple armor sets to PvP characters) and still does not allow 4 customizable weapon sets to a PvP character, it is obvious from some of the other changes made in the update that they are trying to remove advantages PvE characters have over PvP characters in the PvP realm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

ANet never promised equality. But they did try to design the game so that the inequalities were minimized to a point that all characters would be competetive.

ANet's updates continue to push toward this equality that you state they never promised. They modify existing PvE items -- HoD helm, Nolani wand, original Rockmolder, etc. In other cases, they just add more options to the PvP character creation screen. The inequalities are continuing to become less and less.

dawnrain · Jul 15, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

ANet's updates continue to push toward this equality that you state they never promised. They modify existing PvE items -- HoD helm, Nolani wand, original Rockmolder, etc. In other cases, they just add more options to the PvP character creation screen. The inequalities are continuing to become less and less.

If you know of a statement by ANet promising equality, please share it with us. I suspect, if the Opening Poster knew of such a statement they would've referenced it in the Opening Post.

While the addition of more options to the PvP character creation screen does reduce the inequality, this is not necessarily an indication that ANet's ultimate goal is equality. The motivation for additional options for PvP character creation, might just have been that ANet wanted them to have more options.

lyra_song · Jul 15, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

If you know of a statement by ANet promising equality, please share it with us. I suspect, if the Opening Poster knew of such a statement they would've referenced it in the Opening Post.

While the addition of more options to the PvP character creation screen does reduce the inequality, this is not necessarily an indication that ANet's ultimate goal is equality. The motivation for additional options for PvP character creation, might just have been that ANet wanted them to have more options.

edit button. Please re-read the OP

dawnrain · Jul 15, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

edit button. Please re-read the OP

Thanks for the quote.

I wonder to what extent equality will ultimately take? Would the time it takes to obtain/unlock the various mods be considered as something that needs to be equalized? Does this bode well for an eventual npc weapon mod dealer?

Maria The Princess · Jul 15, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

well i have read about 2 pages (first and last)

i agree with the OP. GW PVP is about strategy skill and not about time spend in game farming. as advertised actually. so when i take my ranger in HA, i look at what is the ele doin and changing my armor to vs lightning/fire etc... yes not fair but i have all those sets... now with my pvp ranger, i realse i cant swap armor before beging, so im stuck with the original build.

YES, i think PVP should remain "planing ahead" strategy party build, and PVE characters should not have a advantage of having 10 weapons instead of 4, and only 1 armor set.

i wouldnt mind being able to unlock cool looking armors and stuff, but Cmon, what does it change? if you get PWNED your armor doesnt make it half PWNED... you are stll as PWNED as with normal armor

tracydunklee · Jul 15, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

People think that it is unfair that PvE characters has all what seems to be the advantages in this game. Yet it seems very unfair if the PvP had the same choices when making there 2 minute character. PvE players has to buy, find or whatever for there upgrades for there armor or weapons. Not to say anything about upgrading their armor. Which PvP gets it for free and any upgrades. Just has longs as they are unlocked. Is that really fair to the PvE player? Anything I have even read, even from GW's said that a PvP character is a weaker character compaired to it PvE counter part. Personnally, a PvP charcter is for the lazy player. Someone who does not want to invest anytime in their character nor their Guild.