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Jul 11, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00
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#41 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
Guild: Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]
Profession: Mo/
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When I come up against a player with an identical build, equally skilled, I want time invested to be the deciding factor.
/most certainly NOT signed. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02
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#42 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jan 2006
Guild: OhNo quitted too active gvg
Profession: W/E
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Yeah, maybe there is little advantage for pve characters. But the inventory locking isnt definately a way to solve this problem.
Think about my monk, she has + armor sets and superior rune at the start of battle. If i dont need + armor i swich to + energy shoes and gloves. And when i face spike team i chance to minor rune and +hp armor (maybe use + armor shirt). And against normal pressures i may get dp, then i usually chance to minor. But what wuold happen to meta game if inventpry wuold be loggen (now i mean guild with r100 or less). I.E. monks wuold have hard times whit their minor runes becouse the risk of DP and pure spike teams is way too big. Also Warriors wuold have hard times with dp and superior runes... And think about axe warrior with 1 axe and some stick to get adren  . How u will get energy without zealous axe? How will u spike warrior without elemental axe? What about heavy pressure vamp axe?
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Jul 11, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08
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#43 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Running Iway or any other build for months on end in ha = grind
Playing the same maps in ta/ra = grind Don't tell me farming sf doesnt take skill. I think pvp toons do have a huge advantage in pvp due to the fact they are disposable, to even come close with a pve toon you would need to purchase all skills and capture all elites on all toons, and have a stockpile of every weapon mod unlocked on your acount to be used at your lesure. The abailty to change your armor seems to pale in comparison to the fact that pvp toons can have any skill or mod that is unlocked on an account in a matter of minuets. If you want 4 weapon slots, more armor to change, make a pve toon and spend a few hundred hours, and buy gorrels cane/brohns staff/ +5 energy weapon. Balthazar knows thats all pve's have going for them in pvp. Last edited by MercuriusTerMaxum; Jul 11, 2006 at 02:29 PM // 14:29.. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10
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#44 |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: :P
Profession: E/Me
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If anet is going this route i want them to make a clear statement because they will be no longer consitered a rpg game! they would be declearing they are becoming a pfs!
this game is no longer a rpg everything has been made around pvp! there is little or major lack of rpg in this game already! Last edited by dreamhunk; Jul 11, 2006 at 02:21 PM // 14:21.. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25
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#45 | ||
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Guild: Team Crystalline [TC]
Profession: Mo/
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I agree with this, but only to an extent. I would like to see PVP-Only characters allowed multiple sets of armor and four weapon sets. I say leave PVE characters alone though, and just bridge the (very small) gap.
I think PVE characters should have to unlock their skills regardless though, as that's one of the inherent advantages of using a PVP character with proper unlocks. Quote:
Quote:
Yes, pve does take some skill and it does take experience, but it takes a lot more personal skill to be sucessful in pvp. Last edited by B Ephekt; Jul 11, 2006 at 02:30 PM // 14:30.. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17
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#46 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
Please read Guild Wars home site, and this web page in particular: http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/synopsis/ Read also the PvP section. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47
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#47 | ||
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Hell's Protector
Join Date: Oct 2005
Profession: R/Mo
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Quote:
 dreamhunk is kinda...special. Theres no sense trying to talk to him. He seems to constantly want to post in this thread even though it has nothing to do with him, affect him, or has issues with him, him being an "rpg only" player. Thank you for raising the vamp weapon issue. The Vamp weapon issue. Izzy mentioned it in the interview (WOC #40). Its very unfortunate that PVP battles are getting ruined because players get stuck in the terrain and they are looking to resolve the issue. My chars carry vamp weapons because I like vamp weapons, and i do get stuck myself. This issue alone shows the advantage of a PVE char over a PVP char. A PVP-only character can only have 2 weapons. Caster weapons cannot have vampiric mods. So a caster would carry 1 vampiric weapon which he cannot really get any use out of, and 1 functional staff or wand/focus combo. This severely limits the tactics the PVP-only character can use. How can you consider it a fair match when you are denying the other player a TACTIC? Not even armor, skills, etc, but a WAY of playing. It could be compared to removing you ability to kite. You just lost a tactic because you are using a PvP-Only char. Weapon swapping/Focus swapping is an integral tactic in Guild Wars PVP. Integral and BUILT into the game. We have hot-swapping buttons to switch weapons if you havent noticed. ---------- This isnt about MMORPG Socialism. It has nothing to do with the "RPG" or PVE of the game. This is all about PVP. This is about sportsmanship conduct and level competition. Just like anything competitive and involved like this, there must be rules. It cant be a competition if someone has an advantage. Everyone should have the equal chance to compete. If Anet wants to strive for a balanced PvP environment worthy of league and tournament, they need to address these issues as well. --------- Does nobody remember when the HOD Lieutenant Helm was a 50% Hex reduction? PvP players were disadvantaged because of a very very powerful PVE-only item. Anet lowered the duration of this and added the helm to PvP. This action is what is called "balancing". --------- Mercurius: Please see my "crazy idea". Im trying to lessen that immensely huge grind of PvE just to compete with a PvP-char in terms of skill. Imagine making a PvE char, reaching lvl 20, getting your collector weapons, salvaging some mods from crap golds, getting your max armor with max runes then jumping into PvP with all the skills youve already unlocked. You could be straight out of presearing with the skills you earned, but if you have UAX, you should be able to use it in PvP. -------- Quote:
A PvP-only Warrior will only have 2 axes. Maybe you want more than 2? Zealous, Elemental, Sundering and Vamp. Or maybe take out an axe and put a staff in there (if you are using a conjure build). Voila PvP-only character disadvantage. ---------- I want more PvE-only players to PvP. I hate seeing people turned off from PvP. Its so much fun, they are missing out on so much content that the game has to offer. I pvp for fun. I use both a PvP slot and PvE characters. I LOVE bringing my warrior with her 15k armor into PvP with my perfect 15^50 Spiky Warhammer and KDing some hapless monk. Guild Wars is about PvP and PvE. This duality. This dichotomy. This multifunctionality is what makes it my game of choice. I want the two halves to live in harmony instead of dissonance and fragmentation which we have now. I want to make it easier to jump between PvP and PvE. There really shouldnt even be a line dividing the two, just a fuzzy, blurry kinda distinction. Last edited by lyra_song; Jul 11, 2006 at 05:01 PM // 17:01.. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59
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#48 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Moe's Pub
Guild: Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]
Profession: R/
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I'm not going to post a long explaination for my vote. As many people said, there should be a very slight advantage for having spent so many hours on a char. I do agree however concerning the 4 weapon slots. No opinion about armors. But for the weapons, that's a big no-no. How long does it take to a PvE character to get a +30 hp upgrade for his weapon, and how long for a PvP char? I'm not for letting PvP chars equip a req8 weapon, nor one of those strange weapons they can't get. That doesn't make much difference anyway. And even then, if you cant have one build because you don't have one weapon, then modify the build slightly, or use another build, or just create a PvE char...
/notsigned |
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Jul 11, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51
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#49 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Guild: Glengarry Fencibles
Profession: R/
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PvP characters have weapon slots. Or are you talking about having 4 weapons you can select for your PvP charcater?
You can just equip slot 3 and 4 from weapons from your storage. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01
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#50 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jun 2006
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/notsigned
I have nothing better to do at the Moment, so I shall expand a little to Sir Mad's post. I think they ARE indeed trying to create distinctions between PVE and PVP chars. 15k style Armors should be PVE only, because if PVP chars were be wearing 15k, it would defeat the purpose of having 15k armor, because the player would never have to earn it. Every one would buy the cheap stuff for PVE and have a l337 hax0r 15k clad PVP character. PVE chars have to gather the mats and faction grind or battle for some mats. 15k is a symbol of time being spent on the char. After all, 15k and 1.5k have the same functionality. Adding a 15k PVP armor crafter would be ok, but not give 15k look for "free." The PVP weapon selection works fine as is. Being too lazy to farm or buy PVE weapons for a pvp chars, it is not an excuse. If one wants a PVE drop, they should buy it or farm for it. Greens weapons and special skins, like chaos axe and firey/icy dragon swords, should only be a PVE weapon skin. If not, every one would be running around with chaos and dragon weapons. PVE has to buy or cap their skills, which takes time. I think this distinction SHOULD exist when it comes to PVP and PVE because it adds some roleplay value to the game. Example: if there was no distinction, then every W would be wearing a 15k Kurzik armor wielding a combination of chaos axe, firey dragon sword, icy dragon sword, victo's blade, victo's axe, totem axe, exalted aegis, any other weapon they got for just creating the character, while using free skills. Thus we have: PVP - Pros: Instant 20 all skills the accont has unlocked are available instant max weapons instant max armor free unlocked weapon upgrades free unlocked runes free color selection Can be deleted and recreated with no currency or real value loss. Cons: Limited weapon and armor skins. PVE- Pros: Access to weapons, armor, skills, runes, and dyes not available on PVP creation. Cons: Time to reach 20 Farming or buying good weapons no free runes skills cost $ or capture dye color armor mats must be purchased or farmed Missions and runners are needed to advance to areas Deletion causes major time and currency loss. There should be no more freebies given to PVP chars, I would go along with a 15k NPC crafter, on the Isle which requires mats and money to get the armor, no free 15k. Expanding the available 1.5k sets would be ok also. No "free" 15k. Last edited by curtman; Jul 11, 2006 at 06:05 PM // 18:05.. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18
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#51 | |
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Hell's Protector
Join Date: Oct 2005
Profession: R/Mo
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Quote:
This thread is about equality in PvP FUNCTIONALITY for both PvE and PvP chars. It has ZERO concepts on weapon or armor skins. ------------------------------------ SirMad: Im talking about "odd" items available in PVE: For example the Nolani Wand: +5 unconditional energy and IAS. Warriors use it to gain adrenaline in PvP. This wand does not exist in PvP creation because its unique. I do not feel it is gamebreaking as the HOD Lieut Helm was, because its only a minor upgrade, and its easy to get cause its from a low level area but it is still a very useful item that PvP players should have access to when they are created. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00
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#52 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: Mo/R
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/Half Signed.
We need to add "UW/FoW don't depend on favor for entrance" and "PvE does not get affected by skill balanced" and "HoD sword readded to crafter in Prophecy", then yes I am all for equalizing PvP and PvE chars... |
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Jul 11, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21
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#53 | |||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Aug 2005
Guild: Spectral Agony [sA]
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lyra is completely correct and if you disagree you are missing this game's concept entirely.
However, you will run into a LOT of opposition on this. People spent countless hours and money giving their pve chars a *slight* advantage in pvp. They wont give it up so easily. This discussion might have gotten a better response when the game first came out, but after people already invested their time like this (myself included), it will be hard to turn them. the FACT is: PVP chars, and PVE chars should be EXACTLY the same regardless of how much time you put into either one. This is basic Guild Wars ideology, and if you think you should have any advantage whatsoever because you put extra time in, then go play WoW please. This is not about vanity weapons/armor, stop bringing it up. No one is asking for FoW armor in the pvp creation screen. You can have your precious chaos axe, this discussion is in regards to FUNCTIONALITY only. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for lyra's specific suggestions on how to make the two sides equal, I dont particularly care which way they go. Lock 4 weapon slots, or allow PvP chars to fill their inventory with anything they want at the creation screen. Lock one set of armor, or allow PvP chars as many sets as they want. Izzy stated that he did not particularly like the armor swapping in PvP, so it will be interresting to see the direction this goes. Anyway, while the advantage is arguable very small, it clearly exists, and trying to say that you are "entitled" to that advantage based on time spent is utterly rediculous. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37
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#54 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Court of Selket/Sebelkeh
Guild: What If You Had An Outpost Named After You [slkt]
Profession: W/
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If you're locking the inventory up you'd need much more than 4 slots, considering with the 4 weapons you can take already count as 4 combinations.
Adding more weapons for pvp characters would mean an addition of weapon slots, the way it is now if the inventory was locked a pvp character would be able to use just what they have and nothing more. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42
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#55 | |
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Hell's Protector
Join Date: Oct 2005
Profession: R/Mo
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Quote:
I even had the idea of tying 15k Lux/Kurz crafters to the line in Alliance Battle (crafters wont craft if the line Line is over one side or the other) but i think i'd get REALLY burned for that "PvE does not get affected by skill balanced" <-- I seriously disagree with this. I like it when the game changes. It gives me something else to do. It helps keep the game fresh. It helps crack people out of their shell about their uber build that is suddenly useless and now they have to adapt. This ever changing game (nerfs, buffs, monster changes like Rotscale) has a strange sense of being alive because it is not static (both in zones and mindset )I believe +5 energy swords still drop in Tyria. However i think the crafter is really a Factions "content" and i dont know if they would give it to Prophecies owner at no cost. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13
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#56 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Prepare for the ranting. <_<
I'm afraid I must disagree with all of Lyra’s ideas in the main post, simply because... yes, the game isn't supposed to be about grind and such, but honestly... does your pvp only character not have an inventory and access to a storage person? Are you unable to use either of these to your advantage if you REALLY want to?
There's not a ton of HUGE advantages a PvE character gets while in PvP (as far as I've noticed, there's only a couple tiny ones). PvEs take a lot more work, time, and skill to put them on par with PvP characters, so I think they SHOULD have some slight advantages, though really there's not very many for the huge difference in work put into making them. As for PvPs being made for pvp and should have the advantage if any (As this was stated by a few different people)... Why? How much more work do you have to put into a pvp character to get it how you want it, and so it's got perfect mod'd weapons? How about getting it all the elites and normal skills you need? I mean.. come on... with a PvE, yes, you get to do more than just PvP, but to make them be on par with PvP only characters... it takes a LOT more work, time, and gold. And honestly... how many times have you lost because someone switched their armour in mid-fight. If you think that alone caused you to lose, you're mistaken about it, and you shouldn't be PvPing at all... or not at the level you were PvPing at anyway (Here’s a hint, go back to RA). Being able to switch armour in mid-fight takes a lot of micro-managing, and often will cause people to miss important things going on around them... which in itself causes people to lose more often than to win. If this is truly an advantage that PvE'ers have over pvp only characters... let them have it, they put enough time and work into the characters they're playing. I see you're trying to make PvE and PvP on even footing so to say, but I really don't think it would... people will ALWAYS find something to complain about. As for some of the other ideas through-out the thread, I must agree that you should be able to either pay a certain amount of faction to a Priest of Balthazar to change secondary, or have some way of switching it for a PvP only character, because having to reroll simply because you want ONE skill from a different secondary gets a bit tiring. I also agree that PvP only characters should have the option of carrying up to 4 weapons, selected in the creation screen. That's one advantage I do not like PvEs having, because no, doesn't matter much when I'm running a mesmer, or a necro... but should I want to play a war, I do want more than just two options for weapons and same goes for playing assassin. One more slight advantage I'd like to bring up that PvE has over PvP only characters, that I would actually like to see changed... is the +1 (20%) mods for staves. A lot of times, I would like to have this on a PvP only character, and can't have unless I happen to have one on one of my existing characters, and then transfer it via storage. I think we need to be able to unlock these mods and use them for PvP only. (Or maybe I'm just to dense to find where this is done?  One of the two there...) Alright... done ranting... sorry, about that. I don't typically post.. at all, but this is one time I just had to say something.  Oh yeah... and if I don't make much sense, that's normal, because I don't think like most people.
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Jul 11, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25
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#57 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jun 2006
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[QUOTE=lyra_song]I think you fail to grasp the concept of this thread or even SirMad's response.
This thread is about equality in PvP FUNCTIONALITY for both PvE and PvP chars. It has ZERO concepts on weapon or armor skins. ------------------------------------ I grasp the concept of the tread, and I expanded it to cover the ENTIRE PvP and PvE equalization, not just the narrow ideas you chose. The first line of your original post is: Idea: Equalize PvP and PvE chars COMPLETELY I displayed my argument against equalizing them, both functionally and otherwise. If you do not want additional input, say so in your first post, or ensure the title of this thread, which is currently "Equalize PvP and PvE chars", is exactly what you want to discuss. I supported your comment in result to dreamhunk's post about the 15k armor. If you had put "functionality" in the title, I would stayed more focused, but you left all aspects open by making the title broad, so I would not whine about people being off topic. Also the weapon problem, would eventually be posted by some fool wanting a Victo's Blade, Chaos Axe, or IDS for their newly created PvP char. It is best to head off that problem before it is posted. Off topic: I do not know why you add personalize attacks in your posts on this forum, and I honestly do not care why you do, but being narrow minded and rude is not a good reason. After reading several of your posts on this forum, you sound like a fanboy or fangirl, which has to use bold and caps against every thing you do not agree with and attack the poster, just because you disagree with them or think they are off topic. For a second, I thought I had posted something in the PS or Xbox forums. Just a suggestion, try to avoid using frequent caps and bold. You will be taken more seriously if you avoid doing so. FYI: I have a Computer Science degree, can program in many languages. Do not even say I do not grasp the concept of this thread or any game concept/idea on this forum. In my previous post, I have made my point against any form of equalization, whether it is yours or any one else's, and I shall not post my opinion in one of your threads again, or look at this thread for that matter, since you seem to unnecessarily lash out at any which disagree with yours. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36
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#58 | |
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Elite Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Manchester, England
Guild: SMS/Victrix
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Quote:
When people are talking about locking inventory screens they mean on the actual pvp field - as in meaning you only have access to the weapons/focus/shield combinations set up in your weapon slots, and you only have access to the armor you are wearing. With the inventories being open it allows PVE characters to swap armors depending on what they are facing, it's not a huge advantage or anything, but it's there. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52
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#59 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: :P
Profession: E/Me
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Quote:
http://www.vgmfusion.com/index.php?id=63 listen this from a game dev! rpg is the core of this game! Not a fps! If you want I can post link photos of facts that gw is an rpg! even anet promised rpg fromt the begining! Last edited by dreamhunk; Jul 11, 2006 at 11:09 PM // 23:09.. |
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Jul 11, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56
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#60 | |
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Hell's Protector
Join Date: Oct 2005
Profession: R/Mo
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[QUOTE=curtman]
Quote:
I apologize for seeming like im attacking you, i am sincerely not. I did not mean to come off insulting in my post, i thought it seemed pretty clear with my use of "I think" , implying my perception of your post, not as any attack on your intelligence. I'm not "lashing out", I'm arguing with you. Arguements can get spirited, but thats what makes them fun. Theres a big difference between attacking an idea vs attacking a person. If you feel that its getting personal, then i apologize again, because i only mean to attack your point of view and not you. I like using bold to get my point across. Its a tool for getting attention and i think it works well. I am very zealotic about this because it feels very important to me and i will emphasize for effect, if i feel i need to, thank you very much ;P Last edited by lyra_song; Jul 11, 2006 at 11:05 PM // 23:05.. |
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