Curse

draxynnic · Sep 13, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

You know, this does have potential. For balancing purposes, the caster melee weapons should be doing less damage than warrior weapons, if a little more than regular wands - maybe something around 13-22. However, I do think it could be a useful option, if only for niche builds - after all, there are some casters with effects that work best at point blank range.

As for the people saying casters don't use melee weapons... didn't Gandalf wield Glamdring?

Sli Ander · Sep 13, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I read lots of fantasy novels. 'Casters' use swords and other weapons just as often, if not more often, than traditional casting tools. Famous examples:Gandalf uses a sword(Glamdring) as well as a staff, Rand al'thor from 'The Wheel of Time' series uses a sword more often than his 'magical' abilities. Richard Rahl(Sword of Truth series) uses his sword most often, and the list goes on and on(though I'm too tired to think of more).
I understand why Anet set up casters in a tightly guidelined box, but in the end its just a skin.Be it from a distance or up close, we'll do most of our damage from spells.

The people that would use close quarter weapons will do it for the looks, because they've created a devastating new build, or because they are trying to tank but don't have the skill. Most people will stay with traditional weapons until new uses could be found.

But thats just my humble 2 cents

/edited for spelling and to insert Gandalf's swords name. Took too long typing, and others made my point lol. I think thats the right sword name, been awhile since I read it.

Solar Light · Sep 13, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

i recall the LotR rpg on the consoles, gandalf could shoot lightning out of his blade....

Ninna · Sep 13, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Dungeons and Dragons is old as the hills (1976?)

Magic Users could use daggers,staves,wands,scrolls

Clerics (healers) could use maces,any blunt weapon + Shield

GW has its own flavor tho (for balance)
- warriors are not using 2handed axes or 2handed swords (unlike other rpgs)

regardless,
I'm happy with the GW gear

nirhan shadowmauler · Sep 13, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)

the archetypical rpg priest weapon is a mace.

Gun Pierson · Sep 13, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

May sound funny but I sometimes use a req7 -2 stance -2 ench tactics shield on my monk for running purposes when I use warrior as second class instead of ranger. Together with +10 armor (when enchanted) amor parts and a +5 energy sword (armor +5) you get a pretty tough monk that can still cast. Don't forget the +16 armor of the shield itself, if I put 7 points in tactics that is. in Total +61 extra armor and -4 dmg reduction. He still hits like a fag though.

Siren · Sep 13, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant Angel

Haven't we already seen what happens when you give a squishy daggers. :P

This is the best point made in this thread.

Advantage: Deviant Angel

/unsigned

Mouse at Large · Sep 13, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

In my limited PvP exp (mostly RA), my ele with geomancer setup runs around with a modified flamespitter, not for the damage, but simply to get into melee range to be able to use shockwave/aftershock.

cataphract · Sep 13, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)

People have pointed out that casters in d2 had a wide variety of melee weapons. As a caster in GW, I'm not really overwhelmed with joy about their weapons or skins. I mean, most wands look awful, and staves are not so good themselves. In 15 months I have seen only one staff skin which made me drool. Furthermore, it's a shame that warriors and rangers get the prettiest weapons, even if they don't obey the laws of physics. Daggers, swords, new wands and staves for casters I say!! How do you think your necro sacrifices his health? I mean the bone staff doesn't have any sharp edges whatsoever.

/signed

cataphract · Sep 13, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

GW has its own flavor tho (for balance)
- warriors are not using 2handed axes or 2handed swords (unlike other rpgs)

And that's a shame too because some of those weapons sure do look like they would be better suited for two hands. The Sephis and Tribal axes are huge, the Longsword is just begging to be taken into both hands. One handed hammers would be nice too. But, alas, BALANCING is the word of GW so I don't think we'll be having those any time soon if at all..

Sli Ander · Sep 13, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

May sound funny but I sometimes use a req7 -2 stance -2 ench tactics shield on my monk for running purposes when I use warrior as second class instead of ranger. Together with +10 armor (when enchanted) amor parts and a +5 energy sword (armor +5) you get a pretty tough monk that can still cast. Don't forget the +16 armor of the shield itself, if I put 7 points in tactics that is. in Total +61 extra armor and -4 dmg reduction. He still hits like a fag though.

And , though rare, I've occasionally found monk attribute boosting shields. The one I recall was a 16 % chance of divine favor +1. Maybe not the preferred mod(Protection would make sense as its a shield, or smiting would be useful), though it could be helpful, but it does show that they already have shields that can be used by monks. Why not broaden the melee weapons too?

Redwinter · Sep 13, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I like the idea, if only to give Mesmers their fencing sword.

Mezmo · Sep 13, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

Famous examples:Gandalf uses a sword(Glamdring) as well as a staff, Rand al'thor from 'The Wheel of Time' series uses a sword more often than his 'magical' abilities. Richard Rahl(Sword of Truth series) uses his sword most often

Err, using Richard and Rand probably aren't the best examples. In Richards(from 'Sword of Truth' Series by Terry Goodkind) case he was nammed seeker before he knew he was a wizrad. With being seeker he gained the knowledge of all previous seekers in how to fight, thus making him a master swordsman/fighter. He doesn't even really know how to use his magic, only that through anger he can do some things. Rand(From 'Wheel of Time' series by Robert Jordan(who i hope is recovering from his illness)) also learned how to wield a sword before realizing he was the dragon reborn(basically he's a very powerful "wizard"...sorta...(it is and isn't magic, you'd have to read the books to understand) In the beggening of the seeries he didn't know how to use his powers but he did know how to use a sword, so that's why he uses a sword.

I'm not trying to say these series are bad(on the contrary I LOVE these series), I'm just giving people more info on the characters so they can perhaps understand why they use swords.

Now on teh issue at hand....
I'm kind of torn, I can see situations where having caster melle weapons would be good, but i also like how only certain classes can use melle weapons while others can't. Honeslty i don't think i'd care one way or another

Ian Savage · Sep 14, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

The deal here is that casters shouldn't need weapons. If you play a caster to its complete and utter fullest, you will most likely not be tanking. if you are tanking, then you arent playing a true caster. want ele's to have more armor so you can work on your conjure flame melee ele? bite me. there's no need for it. minion master just not doing the job with staff/wand? pull out that hammer and give those enemies hell. Smite monk lacking that little.....twist? throw in backbreaker!

no, I'm sorry. the reason they are CASTERS is because they dont fight in melee. maybe A-net will release a caster/melee prof, (look to the Dervish, it MAY turn out this way) but for the time being, stick to IW if you want to caster tank.

on the other hand, if you want some true originality in caster weaps, then we need to find new ideas. somones gotta have em, throw them out in your own thread. Caster love is there, dont you ever say that it isnt. please.

/notsigned for pointlessness and short-sightedness

P.S.-- Rand/Richard really were more melee type people anyways. I mean come on, if all rand did was use The Power, then it'd make for a slightly boring situation, what with every shadowspawn within 5 miles instantly exploding. thats why they had to add the whole nausea thing. meh, he's perfectly awesome as it is.

BahamutKaiser · Sep 14, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Simple advantage really, it allows players to close in on targets without switching to a melee weapon that doesn't have useful stats.

There are alot of touch and adjacent spells in the game, it would be very helpful if we had melee caster weapons which either had a small boost for melee effectiveness, or at least had all the same stats as a wand.

There are plenty of usefull skills for Casters to survive on the front line, and deal massive damage, having a convinient weapon for it would be appreciated.

And it doesn't matter if you need it or not, I don't see anyone asking for ranged Wands and Staves to be replaced, they can provide us with useful weapon options for people who do want melee caster weapons.

I however don't agree that caster attributes should increase weapon damage, the attribute doesn't increase the power of associated weapons no matter what they are (No Passive Effects), and the skills are balanced appropriately for a class that does less damage with their weapon and more with thier skills. They could give them lower attack speed and higher damage, or higher attack speed and lower damage, but they should not get higher overall output.

The only exception I would consider is Hybrid weapons. Perhaps a Mesmer Rapier requiring Inspiration magic. Although Inspiration is its requirement it would only allow the weapon to be wielded properly, but since it is a sword, points in sword mastery would increase it's damage output and allow you to use Sword skills with an Inspiration Req sword. Basicly, this allows casters to use melee weapons which require their own attributes and grant mods for their spells, but have the option to invest in Melee Attributes and skills to use with those weapons. I would have to ponder it a wile, I'm not sure if that is balanced.

draxynnic · Sep 14, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Savage

P.S.-- Rand/Richard really were more melee type people anyways. I mean come on, if all rand did was use The Power, then it'd make for a slightly boring situation, what with every shadowspawn within 5 miles instantly exploding. thats why they had to add the whole nausea thing. meh, he's perfectly awesome as it is.

They have a point - both Rand and Richard would be E/Ws... it's just that unlike most Guild Wars characters, they somehow managed to learn their secondary class first ;-).

That still leaves Gandalf, who's a little more difficult to pin down...

The Hand Of Death · Sep 14, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Casters in a way should have more diversity of weapons, even if it isn't melee. Wands and staves for 5 proffesions. I mean the warrior has 3 weapons on one proffesion. Now I can see why he wants melee weapons, and not just for damage.

A dark aura necro: could use a dagger because dark aura necros need to be close to the enemy to do their damage, and the weapon attacks keep them close.

Fire Elementalist: the aura of displacement builds with the AoE fire that is in the area directly around the Ele. It would be nice to use a melee weapon to keep up with the enemy while using the skills such as bed of coals and flame burst.

Illusionary Weapon mesmer: Why does the illusionary weapon mesmer always have to be warrior second, I mean why can't they use necro second and benefit from healing from blood, they may need a weapon that can do sufficient damage in the off time of IW.

Ritulaist: used for the close damage spells, and as a way to get to the enemy easier to spawn and drop ashes.

Monk: Smite monk that needs to get close.

The proffesions can really benefit from this and I feel that he is right in the way that casters need a high diversity of weapons.

Sli Ander · Sep 14, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Yeah I know they learned their primaries first, and frankly I could have picked better examples. But I was tired so please forgive me that. What people seem to forget, however, is that there are two views of 'wizards'(I'll say that rather than caster). Wizards are either seen as frail old men, or buff, physically imposing magic users. The second type usually accompany the belief that magic is dependent on ones body: the weaker the body, the less energy for the magic to use.
I realize that Anet put a box around magic users by calling them 'casters', implying that they were meant for long ranger casting.But this only holds mostly true. Elementalists and monks would benefit greatly from caster friendly weapons due to touch skills. Necros would also benefit in the touch abilities, though I have less experience with them, and therefore won't attempt to go into detail.
If I have a warrior secondary, I want to use my shield and sword to benefit my primary class, using warrior stances and whatever energy management they might have. Any conditions I inflict might affect the effectiveness of my skills, and melee weapons can help inflict those necessary conditions.

I hope I'm not repeating myself, I'm merely attempting to clarify my point that 'casters' can benefit from close quarters as much as anyone else. And some of our spells are designed to be used that way. It would be nice if we could get a few more melee weapons to support our primary in the roles we choose to play them, not the confined roles which were originally designed.
/edit for spelling

bigwig · Sep 14, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

i just want a wand of magic missle

Minus Sign · Sep 15, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)

all the time actually. In many games castor type characters can find themselves equipping swords, maces, knives, shields; you name it.

@OP: but not for a game like this. trust me; your castor is much safer at ranged distance to target. If something breaks formt he tank and comes for you, don't wish you had a mellee knife to swap and pwn, run like you hair was on fire. Its not the lack of mellee weapons that kill non-kiting castors. Its the lack of armor.