Curse

Undressed · Sep 19, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

The PvP-Creation definitely needs a major overhaul regarding the gear you can choose and the maximum amount of weapon slots. While a PvE-Char can use up to 4 slots, a PvP-Char can only assign 2. That's definitely not balanced.

PvP-Creation still lacks:

20/20 inspiration cane [like Garbok's - no, don't suggest buying]
Dual-Modded shields with +10 vs an element, a damage type, excluding monsters

Multiple Armour sets is definitely a hot topic. While it would be nice to have the same option in PvP (still lacking a PvE-Char's possibilites) I generally believe there should not be any possibility at all.

Scavenger Rage · Sep 19, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Ok for most of the sugestions, but what you think is missing on the armour sets?! They are all there (whith no exception).

Still...all my PVP chars are pretty competitive the way they are now, and NONE of this sugestions is REQUIRED to make the game more competitive, but, they might work if implemented, I real don't know for sure if I sign or not this idea yet...

Latter.

Taurohtar · Sep 19, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scavenger Rage

Ok for most of the sugestions, but what you think is missing on the armour sets?! They are all there (whith no exception).

He's talking about the fact that a PVE character can take multiple sets of armour into a PVP battle, where a PVP only character can only take the single set he was created in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

The PvP-Creation definitely needs a major overhaul regarding the gear you can choose and the maximum amount of weapon slots. While a PvE-Char can use up to 4 slots, a PvP-Char can only assign 2. That's definitely not balanced.

A PVP only character can assign 4 weapon slots. They can only choose PVP gear for 2 of these slots, but when you are ingame you can open the other 2 by pressing Weapon Sets in your inventory.

Both of these points are in effect purposely to force PVE if you want the extra advantages, which I think this is valid.
_

The truth itself · Sep 19, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Taurohtar:

Wrong, sorry.

This game is based off skill, not time spenting grinding a PvE character though campaigns and farming to get some nice gear.

Listen to Weapon of choice radio.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 19, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Agreed. IMO they just need to add the ability to make 2 sets of armor and 4 sets of weapons, and then add in some more weapons for use (+15/-1 health regen, CC shields, +armor vs damage type shields, more canes and stuff that they are missing, etc.).

milan · Sep 19, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I agree that everything equipment wise should be available in pvp, however and please don't take this as a pve rant, if anet goes along this route the skill unlocks purchasable should also be available for PvE characters or it just becomes unbalanced once more.

lyra_song · Sep 20, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10000385

^_^

dgb · Sep 20, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Eh good luck, Gaile has stated that PVE players deserve more of an advantage than just sparkly swords...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Don't say, "Well, they can keep their skins." That's just a little dismissive, isn't it? If you put 1,000 hours into a character, you deserve something a little better than a bonus sparkly on your sword.

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...672#post517672

And I thought this was a game that claimed that grind would get you no advantage... It will be interesting to see if the Nightfall box claims that...

Avarre · Sep 20, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Sorry, since when did playing the basic PvE game become a grind? You can outfit a character in multiple sets of 1.5k without really trying, and collector weapons aren't exactly hard to get...

The game says you don't have to GRIND (hundreds of hours of farming) to be good, it doesn't say you get it without trying.

Harlequin Of Xen · Sep 20, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Sorry, since when did playing the basic PvE game become a grind? You can outfit a character in multiple sets of 1.5k without really trying, and collector weapons aren't exactly hard to get...

The game says you don't have to GRIND (hundreds of hours of farming) to be good, it doesn't say you get it without trying.

Agree. Since Factions it is easier than ever to level up a new pve toon. It took me only a couple of sessions to get my ranger up to level 20 and kitted out in standard 1.5k max armour. Sure it'll take substantially more time to cap all the skills to make the pve toon pvp-ready but having the benefit or armour swapping is a nice reward for the effort.

On top of that there is also the consideration that image does count of GW TV.... nothing beats the look of pve chars fighting in gvg.

Conclusion? Leave the PVP creation unchanged.

dgb · Sep 20, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Sorry, since when did playing the basic PvE game become a grind?

Quite frankly, playing Guild Wars PVE is about as appealing to me as hacking my right leg off with a cleaver and then bludgeoning myself with said dismembered leg. You may like it and I'm happy that you do, but it is something I would prefer never to go near again. Uninspired plot, bad AI, worse players, all up I find it pretty horrible. I'm not anti PVE, I just don't like the PVE of Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You can outfit a character in multiple sets of 1.5k without really trying, and collector weapons aren't exactly hard to get...

I've gone through the grind to get my monk to PVP standard, so lets see what I have in my inventory.

Two 1.5k armour sets (it's actually three but one isn't needed anymore). That's 12k, I'll add 2k on for materials, 3 minor runes per set + a superior vigor, let's say 1k for the six minors, 68k for the two superior vigors. 83K for armour.

Twelve scalp designs, (one of each attribute with min, maj + sup), 1.5k x 12 = 18k, again 1k for materials = 19k, 12k for the runes (it's actually slightly more but anyway) and we're up to 31k for the headpieces.

114k so far, just for the basic armour equipment.

Weapons. I'm going to give an allowance of 5k here for collector items, some are cheap, some are expensive but it's probably a fair number if on the lowish side. All numbers will be taken from the GWG price check at the lowest value.

20/20 Healing Staff with twin +30 health mods. 16k.
20/20 Healing Staff, +5 armour/+30 health. 11k
-1 Regen Wand, Healing Linked 5.5k (500g for materials)

20/20 Prot Staff, with twin +30 health mods. 16k
20/20 Prot Staff, with +30 health/+20% enchanting. 16k
-1 Regen Wand, Prot Linked 5.5k (500g for materials)
Fiery Flame Spitter with 20% enchant mod. 10k

20/20 Smiting Staff, with twin +30 helath mods. 16k
20/20 Smiting STaff, with +30 health/+20% enchanting. 16k
-1 Regen Wand, Smite Linked 5.5k (500g for materials)
Fiery Flame Spitter with 20% enchant mod. Allready have.

Many of my usual GVG weapons aside from a -1 regen prot wand (which I allready have) can go under collectors, but the exceptions are listed here.

20/20 Inspiration Staff with twin +30 health mods. 16k
20/20 Healing wand, 5.5k (500g for materials)
Healing Straw Effigy 15k
Inspiration Straw Effigy 15k
Garbok's Cane 1k

Other things
"...." Fan 5k
-5 Energy Weapon of Defense 2k
-2 Health Regen item 10k (arbitrary number, that's what I payed for one of mine)
Geoffer's Bulwark 5k
- health armours (to go with the -regen item) 13k (4 superior runes + the cheapest armour you can get).

That to me sums to about 324k. I'd guess I need about 53 skills on monk, which comes to about 39.5k. A grand total of 363.5k to equip my monk going the cheapest option everytime.

It's actually far far more than that because I have a number of perfect golds for specific situations, the above is a minimum which I would want if I was strating from scratch.

Do you seriously acquire that much money playing through the game normally? It is marginally better in Cantha but that doesn't mean you don't have to grind to equip it. Do I need everyone of those items? Hell no, but I'm creating a PVE character for an advantage, it's insane to do most of the grind and then stop for a measily 5k more.

Luckily I play a monk as my main character only, I feel sorry for those who play midline characters which require you to be able to play multiple primaries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The game says you don't have to GRIND (hundreds of hours of farming) to be good, it doesn't say you get it without trying.

The game advertised as being a level playing field where the only determining factor of how good you were was your skill. This is not a level playing field. I've won games in HA and GVG due to having a PVE character which can adjust to suit circumstances, which a PVP character can't.

I want to be able to go in and know that skill will determine it, I don't want to go in and beat a team because I adjusted my defense to suit their offense. Either stop me doing that, or allow everyone to do it.

But that isn't the Anet line, as demonstrated by the above quote. Gaile is quite happy to accept and state that PVP characters are and are going to stay second class citizens in their own area. If you've ground out 1000 hours, you deserve more than just looking good!

Skill over time? ARF!

MAdnRisKy · Sep 20, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

you made your character weapons the hard way for a start. one +30 sword and you could get the double health bonus using just the straw thingie bobs. (and 5 energy, or 5 armour bonus depending on the sword - pre sear char sword incase you're wondering).

Yes it can be expensive but a monk is like the WORST example, because monks have a billion items. I've been making an ele recently, they too need a lot of stuff, but 1 totem axe and several 5k craftables later and I have weapons for every situation for about 40k. 4 armour sets for a further 40k with runes (and change i seem to remember, i usually allocate 10k per set, seems to cost less these days though). Like I said using the monk as your example is not a fair comparison. And yes you can make that money very quickly, hell if you're good at pvp just win halls a few times, you make about 10k with each drop there. personally I can by a new set of armour after 1hrs work (gotta love elona running)

dgb · Sep 20, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

you made your character weapons the hard way for a start. one +30 sword and you could get the double health bonus using just the straw thingie bobs. (and 5 energy, or 5 armour bonus depending on the sword - pre sear char sword incase you're wondering).

Without the bloody mods I want! I'm going to the effort of going through PVE, I'm not then going to make a character that I like less than a PVP one. Sure I could use Pre-Searing armour and it would be a hell of a lot cheaper but that's missing the point. I'm doing this to gain an advantage, I'm not then going to handicap myself to be cheap.

Uh, monks may individually be more expensive than most characters (although I would argue warriors are worse) but monks rarely play anything else. The midline players in my guild, tend to have to play everything that's not a monk or warrior and so the situation is worse for them.

Aside from that, why exactly aren't monks a fair example? Do monks get an automatic bonus 300k on entry into the game? Funny, where exactly do I claim mine? All those hours I farmed to get this stuff, I should have known that monks don't count. If monks don't count you owe me 300k.

Not to mention I should obviously know that I can make money running Elona! Because I'm creating a monk, I obviously have the warrior to run elona with!

Avarre · Sep 20, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

All those hours I farmed to get this stuff, I should have known that monks don't count. If monks don't count you owe me 300k.

300k is... 4-5 days farming, max, if you play slow. On a monk. I'm sorry you see this as a grind, and your point stands, but I (from a mixed PvE perspective) don't consider that an obstacle.

Of course, since I don't really care either way (I've got PvP-ready PvE characters, I use PvP characters for other primaries) I wouldn't mind this addition, assuming it doesn't over-clutter the creation screen.

lyra_song · Sep 20, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10000385

.-.

we discussed this quite loudly already.....

Senator Tom · Sep 20, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

...The whole point of having a PvE character for PvP is for the advantages.

Goonter · Sep 20, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

This game could go a looong way for cosmetic and personality differences between players avatars. And that should all be accomplished, understandably, through "roleplaying" aspect of the game - pve.

Having a bland pvp character is fine, as long as they have same combat options as the crossover pve characters during pvp.

Some of the stats on equipment could use readjusting, inventory lock, and the selection of 3 weapons with 3 weapon slots (reduced weapon slots by one for all.... I call it a compromise) for pvp.

Hair cuts, custom emotes, more rare armor for pve.

Clawdius_Talonious · Sep 20, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

Multiple Armour sets is definitely a hot topic. While it would be nice to have the same option in PvP (still lacking a PvE-Char's possibilites) I generally believe there should not be any possibility at all.

I do think that any green item (20/20 inspiration cane) available in the PVE game should be available in a PVP flavor to PVP players.

Now, I went and looked and apparently they changed this, but for awhile you couldn't change armors in PVP (I had multiple runed headpieces and gauntlets that I could not change in battle), but now apparently you can. To me this is a bit silly, IRL you would not be in the middle of combat and say "Hold on a minute, let me put on my heavy trousers, it's cold out here"

Still I suppose thats the advantage you get for putting all those hours of work into a PVE character. So, there you go, your sparkley sword isn't your only advantage, you can also swap armor on the fly.

I do not think that it's a big deal to desire multiple armors and weapons for a PVP character, although I guess with multiple armor layouts and four weapon slots (like they originally had, your f1/f2/f3/f4 would change your armor as well as your weapons) would allow you to make a PVP only warrior/assassin (for example) and have axe, daggers, sword, and hammer, (and different headpieces/shields for different builds) and then swap your skill loadout to match with the templates that will be implemented with Nightfall.