Curse

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Sep 29, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Concept Class: Juggernaut

Concept Class Lore:
Once skillful martial artists, who mastered the power of chaos energies, now the Juggernauts possess enchanced strength and reflexes. Abundance of chaos energies flowing within their bodies caused their eyes as well as their fists and feet to glow with pinkish chaos energies.

They wear little or no armor at all, since their skin is made resistant to most form of attacks due to the massive amount of chaos energies within their body, and this would allow them to move and strike swiftly in combat.

Attributes:
* Absorbtion:
All damage received is reduced by per rank.
Gain +1 health for every point of damage reduced.

Endurance:
Health gain from Absorbtion increased by 1 per rank.

Unarmed Mastery:
While fighting unarmed, deals +2 Bludgeoing damage per rank.
Unarmed attacks have 6% per rank to attack 33% faster.

Chaos Mastery:
Unarmed attacks have 6% per rank to deal +2 Chaos damage per attack.

Associated Colors:
Bosses' Glow: Brown
Skill Icons:
Image: Dark Brown
Background: Light Brown

Vital Stats at Level 20:
Health: 480
Energy: 20
Energy Regeneration: 2 pips

Armor Types::
Base AL: 80

Additional Modifiers:
Type 1: +8 Energy (Head +1, Chest +3, Pants +2, Gloves +1, Boots +1)
Type 2: <coming soon>
Type 3: <coming soon>

As for how the Juggernaut would look like:

Weapon Types:
None. Must not equip anything in both hands in order to attack using Unarmed Mastery.
Base unarmed attack speed is 1.33s per attack
Note:
All Weapon Spells, Elite Enchantment Illusionary Weapon would not work on an unarmed Juggernaut

New Game Mechanics:
Leap:
- similiar to teleport / shadow step
- not instantaneous, will take a second or 2 to sail through the air
- cannot leap through obstacles, i.e: walls, closed gates & doors
- leap attacks: attack skills that will attempt to hit target foe upon successful leap and land
- will be knocked down if interrupted during mid-flight

Knock Back:
- will interrupt target upon successful knock back
- target foe will be pushed back a certain range until hit an obstacle
- useful for breaking up formations, i.e: knock back that monk to send it flying off into the distance

Grab:
- special Unarmed attack
- can only performed if Juggernaut has more than 50% health
- upon successful hit, will "Grab" target foe
- "Grabbed" target foe will be
- 1) unable to move
- 2) can only use 0s activation skills, i.e: endure pain, etc
- 3) cannot use stances

- "Grabbed" target foe will be released if Juggernaut is
- 1) knocked down
- 2) killed
- 3) reduced to less than 50% health

- Total Grabbed duration is 2s ++

Toss:
- special Unarmed attack
- can only be executed if the Juggernaut has "Grabbed" a target
- tosses "Grabbed" target foe into another target foe
- "Grabbed" target foe will
- 1) take damage upon impact
- 2) be knocked down upon impact
- upon successful hit, "Tossed" target foe will take damage upon impact from "Grabbed" target

Skills:
==========================================
= Skills = Type | Energy | Cast Time | Recharge Time =
==========================================

Note: Figures are based on rank 0 to rank 12

---------------------------
Absorbtion (-)
---------------------------
<coming soon> | Skill | -e | -s C | -s R

---------------------------
Endurance (3)
---------------------------
Leap Attack | Unarmed Attack | 5e | 3/4s C | 10s R
Leap towards target foe within range of 100'......160' (100'+5X') and attempt a Leap Attack. If Leap Attack hits a foe suffering from Weakness and Crippled, that foe is knocked down.

Leap | Skill | 5e | 3/4s C | 10s R
Leap forward by 100'.

Endure Toxins | Skill | 5e | 0s C | 30s R
For 5......17 (5+X) seconds, you ignore the health degeneration effects of Poison and Disease.

<coming soon> | Skill | -e | -s C | -s R

---------------------------
Unarmed Mastery (6)
---------------------------
Groin Kick | Unarmed Attack | 6A | 0s C | 0s R
Lose all adrenaline. If Groin Kick hits a male foe suffering from Weakness, that foe is knocked down and is Crippled for 5......17 (5+X) seconds and you deal +10......34 (10+2X) damage. Otherwise, you deal +5......17 (5+X) damage

Grab | Unarmed Attack | 10A | 0s C | 0s R
Lose all adrenaline. If this attack hits, Grab and hold target foe for 2......4 (2+X/6) seconds.

Toss | Unarmed Attack | 5e | 0s C | 10s R
Toss grabbed target foe towards target other foe. Grabbed target foe is knocked down upon impact. If Toss hits a foe suffering from Weakness and Crippled, that foe is knocked down.

Knock Back Charge | Stance | 10A | 0s C | 0s R
Lose all adrenaline. For 5......11 (5+X/2) seconds, you run 50% faster. Your next successful hit will knock back target foe by 100'......160' (100'+5X'). This stance ends if you successfully hit or if you use a Skill.

Knock Back Punch | Unarmed Attack | 6A | 0s C | 0s R
Lose all adrenaline. If Knock Back Punch hits, your target is knocked back by 100'......160' (100'+5X').

Unseen Combat | Skill | 5e | 0s C | 30s R
For 5......17 (5+X) seconds, your unarmed attacks is unaffected by Blindness.

<coming soon> | Skill | -e | -s C | -s R

---------------------------
Chaos Mastery (0)
---------------------------
<coming soon> | Skill | -e | -s C | -s R

lyra_song · Sep 30, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

so what is the purpose of this class? o.o

englitdaudelin · Sep 30, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

it's another tank, it looks like.
I kinda like the idea.
A real brawler.
I think, however, unarmed may not be what we want... Beacuse where are the bonus energy , health, etc... weapons and offhands that other classes have?
Instead, have hand weapons like brass knuckles, weighted gloves, roll of coins, etc.... or a small offhand shield that could be a weapon? A discus-sized shield?
The possibilities are intriguing.

Guardian of the Light · Sep 30, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Add this Anet

CAUSE I'M THE JUGGERANT @#$%!

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Sep 30, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

lyra_song:
"what is the purpose of this class?"
Tuoba:
"Well, my initial concept was to base it off Marvel's Juggernaut, i.e.: 'The Unstoppable Juggernaut', a brute force so mighty, that it would be unstoppable.

In Guild Wars, we cannot have something that is 'unstoppable', for balance's sake, of course. This concept 'Juggernaut' would meant to be the ultimate unarmed warrior in Guild Wars. Surpassing even the core profession Warrior in terms of survivability as well as dishing out enourmous amount of damage, the only thing is that it fights unarmed.

Additional features is the ability to ignore the negative effects of certain conditions and hexes, to be more specific, conditions and hexes that hinders a melee fighter's performance in close combat, i.e: Blind, Crippled, Weakness and various hexes."

englitdaudelin:
"it's another tank, it looks like."
Tuoba: "Yes. That is correct."

"I think, however, unarmed may not be what we want... Beacuse where are the bonus energy , health, etc... weapons and offhands that other classes have?"
Tuoba: "The idea is to make the Juggernaut to be powerful enough to not require any other additional bonuses."

"Instead, have hand weapons like brass knuckles, weighted gloves, roll of coins, etc.... or a small offhand shield that could be a weapon? A discus-sized shield?"
Tuoba: "Perhaps you would be more interested in LaserLight's Pit Fighter instead?"

Will update the original post to include more details soon, gotta go out now.
Peace.

lyra_song · Sep 30, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

"Well, my initial concept was to base it off Marvel's Juggernaut, i.e.: 'The Unstoppable Juggernaut', a brute force so mighty, that it would be unstoppable.

In Guild Wars, we cannot have something that is 'unstoppable', for balance's sake, of course. This concept 'Juggernaut' would meant to be the ultimate unarmed warrior in Guild Wars. Surpassing even the core profession Warrior in terms of survivability as well as dishing out enourmous amount of damage, the only thing is that it fights unarmed.

Additional features is the ability to ignore the negative effects of certain conditions and hexes, to be more specific, conditions and hexes that hinders a melee fighter's performance in close combat, i.e: Blind, Crippled, Weakness and various hexes."

So whats it weakness? -90% walkspeed?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Sep 30, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

lyra_song:
"So whats it weakness? -90% walkspeed?"
Tuoba:
"Nah.
With a 90% reduced movement speed, the Juggernaut would not be able to hit any thing that is not deeply rooted onto the ground.

I would say, being unable to reap the extra benefits of using weapons, shields, foci, if the Juggernaut is to be an unarmed melee fighter is one of the Juggernaut's 'weakness'.

Besides that, it would be the low rate of natural energy regeneration, with only 2 pips of health regeneration, same as the core profession Warrior and Nightfall profession Paragon.

Matteus · Sep 30, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

"* Absorbtion:
All damage received is reduced by per rank in Absorbtion.
Gain +1 energy for every point of non-physical damage received.
Maximum +1 energy per every 3 ranks."

This would make the energy regeneration pretty useless, 15 in Absorbtion would = 5 energy per each hit, so it could constantly chain attacks that require like 5 or 10 energy to use, IMO there are a few points with this that would make it very over powered, it'd be hard to beat by a caster, as it'd have a constant energy source. To make it balanced it'd have to have something like lower movment speed. As the Kurzick Juggernaughts have. Otherwise, it'd be the ultimate character, a team of 8 of them would be able to sustain them selfs in battle, maintain their own energy and health and still kill as you said "in terms of survivability as well as dishing out enourmous amount of damage, the only thing is that it fights unarmed." .

It's a nice idea, but has alot of flaws considering balance with the other professions in the game.

Aegeroth · Sep 30, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Surpassing even the core profession Warrior in terms of survivability as well as dishing out enourmous amount of damage, the only thing is that it fights unarmed.

I dunno about that seems rather unfair, it makes the warrior rather redundant.

Some possible imporvements:
far less armour than the warrior, gives a more 'brawler' effect. "i dont need armour to survive" kinda attitude.

cant deal any conditions except cripple (heavy weights).

like the warrior, little energy more adrenaline.

Chaos Damage? doesnt sound very brawler to me, then again its up to you Tuoba. I think in replacement mabye something like "Drunkard" or something along the lines of a "relentless assault" kind of spell, for example for the assassin combo skill:
Attack 1 - knockdown spell
Attack 2 - fast attacking
Attack 3 - high damage, long activation

might consider some reversing?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Sep 30, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Again, I must thank you all for the precious feedback. Much appreciated.

In reply to Matteus:
Tuoba:
"Hmm. You are correct regarding the energy gained per damage reduced part, it would make the Juggernaut indeed unstoppable.

What if the energy gain aspect is removed, instead replaced with health gaining? For example:

* Absorbtion:
All damage received is reduced by per rank in Absorbtion.
Gain +1 health for every point of damage reduced.

Let's say the Juggernaut Okram Niac has 10 ranks in Absorbtion, he is hit by a direct damage spell which does 40 fire damage after armor level reduction. Okram receives 30 fire damage instead of 40, due to 10 ranks in Absorbtion, and gains +10 health, in the end, Okram only receives 20 damage. But if Okram dies from the 30 fire damage, then he would not be able to reap the benefits of the +10 health. How would this sound? No to energy gaining, but focus on damage reduction and minor health gaining."

In reply to Aegeroth:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht
Surpassing even the core profession Warrior in terms of survivability as well as dishing out enourmous amount of damage, the only thing is that it fights unarmed.

I dunno about that seems rather unfair, it makes the warrior rather redundant.

Tuoba: "I think I went overboard with that statement. If I revise that into something like this:
On a par with the core profession Warrior in terms of survivability as well as dishing out enourmous amount of damage, the only thing is that it fights unarmed.

In my original statement, it sounded like the Juggernaut would replace the Warrior for good, the revised statement I believe would meant that the Juggernaut would be similiar to the Warrior, in terms of survability and damage, except that it fights unarmed.

far less armour than the warrior, gives a more 'brawler' effect. "i dont need armour to survive" kinda attitude.
Personally, I would like to retain the high armor low energy regeneration aspect of the Juggernaut. At the moment, only the Warrior and the Paragon has 2 pips of energy regeneration. The Ranger still being the most unique, with 3 pips of energy regeneration and an ubar primary attribute.

cant deal any conditions except cripple (heavy weights).
I think Dazed would be more suitable. Extremely powerful punches empowered with chaos energies to the head would have nasty effect on the victim. I am thinking of adding in a new mechanic, a "Knock Back" effect.

like the warrior, little energy more adrenaline.
Agreed. Can only gain +8 more from armor to be become 28 total, similiar to the Warrior.

Chaos Damage? doesnt sound very brawler to me, then again its up to you Tuoba.
Aye, its not meant to be our normal "brawler".

The 'lore' regarding the Juggernaut is that they acquired their superhuman powers from mastering chaos energy, their fists and feet glows with bright pinkish / purplish chaos energy, hence their unarmed attacks are able to deal normal physical bludgeoing damage as well as chaos damage.

Their eyes glow as well, due to enourmous amount of chaos energies contained within their body.

Their armor resembles a few pieces of leather armor, this enables them to move swiftly and strike as fast. The massive amount of chaos energies within their body altered their skin in a way that, the Juggernaut is very resistant to damage, hence the high armor level.

Perhaps I can do some revising regarding the base armor level and the attributes. Please comment again on them when I have made the changes.

I think in replacement mabye something like "Drunkard" or something along the lines of a "relentless assault" kind of spell, for example for the assassin combo skill:
Attack 1 - knockdown spell
Attack 2 - fast attacking
Attack 3 - high damage, long activation

might consider some reversing?
Thanks for the feedback, but I think I will work on the 'chaos brawler' first and see how it develops. I will revise as necessary based on the feedback received from the community.

lyra_song · Oct 01, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

"Nah.
With a 90% reduced movement speed, the Juggernaut would not be able to hit any thing that is not deeply rooted onto the ground.

I would say, being unable to reap the extra benefits of using weapons, shields, foci, if the Juggernaut is to be an unarmed melee fighter is one of the Juggernaut's 'weakness'.

Besides that, it would be the low rate of natural energy regeneration, with only 2 pips of health regeneration, same as the core profession Warrior and Nightfall profession Paragon.

Ya...but....being unstoppable, survivable and immune to hexes/conditions means you wouldnt really NEED to have weapons.

The reason the Warrior and Paragon have low pips of energy regen is because a good part of their skills use adrenaline and their energy based skills cost very little. The low regen prevents them from using spells from other classes so that "spellcasting tanks" dont exist to imbalance the game.

Really i dont see the purpose of this class.

The game has a tank already.

What will this class do that no other class can do?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Oct 01, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Dear lyra_song,

"being unstoppable,"
Tuoba: "Its merely a figure of speech."

"survivable and immune to hexes/conditions means you wouldnt really NEED to have weapons."
Tuoba: "I stated certain conditions and hexes, perhaps you would be willing to comment further once I have the proposed skills listed down in order?"

"Really i dont see the purpose of this class.

The game has a tank already.

What will this class do that no other class can do?"
Tuoba: "Guild Wars already have 8 'ranged' classes, but only 2 real 'melee' class. This class would attempt to introduce a new melee class into Guild Wars.

Perhaps you would like to comment again when I have gone into more details regarding this concept class.

lyra_song · Oct 01, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Perhaps you would like to comment again when I have gone into more details regarding this concept class.

Hurry up then ;P

<.<

>.>

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Oct 01, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

>_<
Sorry to keep ya waiting, lyra_song
I will try to expedite the daily updates.

Updates:
- added Concept Class Lore (shameless copy and paste from my post)
- added additional information to Weapon Type
- revised base AL
- revised attributes

I'm sorry but there are the updates I have for now, gotta go out again now.
>_<

I will continue to revise and update when I get back tommorow.
Peace.

Kattox1 · Oct 01, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Tuoba: "Guild Wars already have 8 'ranged' classes, but only 2 real 'melee' class. This class would attempt to introduce a new melee class into Guild Wars.

Make that 3 melee classes (assassin warrior and dervish) and 7 ranged classes and your spot on.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Oct 02, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Thanks for the correction, Kattox1, I forgot about the Dervish, aye.

Here are the today's updates:
- added Armor Type 2
- added new game mechanics: Leap, Knock Back
- added new skills: Endure Toxins, Knock Back Punch, Knock Back Charge, Unseen Combat

More skills will come when I have the time to add them.

Knock Back might be too powerful?
Perhaps the interupt aspect could be removed?

Discuss.

Lavindathar · Oct 02, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I like the idea, I really do.

And having more classes, if balanced is NOT a bad thing. Gives much more choice.

I don't like the fact it's un-armed, but love the suggestion of brass knuckles, weighted gloves. Hand weapons. It has to be there so that they can gain energy bonus' etc...they wouldnt be used if they didnt have weapons, as they would lack too many bonuses.

And maybe a different aspect is that they cannot equip offhands. Instead, there offhand weapon is a "right glove". So you can have "left brass knuckle" and "right brass knuckle". Just a thought? It keeps in check with the brawler attitude.

If implemented into your design, you'd have to change "unarmed fighting" to "hand to hand combat" or some such thing.

And I don't like the Chaos thing. Not sure why, but it just doesnt seem to fit. Maybe something else, some sort of Brawling attribute with brawling skills, like a dirty hand to hand street fighting kind of thing.

Anyway, I hope you take my suggestions on board, but I really do like the idea. Just needs some changing before Anet would ever consider anything like this to make it balanced.

shrouded^god · Oct 03, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

I love the idea, as everyone else has said...some kind of 'weapon' or something to equip...and im leaning towards a glove, just think it would work better while fitting the character perfectly

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Oct 03, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

In reply to Lavindathar and shrouded^god regarding weapons:

"they wouldnt be used if they didnt have weapons, as they would lack too many bonuses."
Tuoba:
I assume 'they' as mentioned above is refering to Juggernauts.
What if the Juggernaut is already powerful enough to not rely on the additional bonuses offered from weapons and weapon upgrades, and by adding in the additional bonuses from weapons and weapon upgrades, the Juggernaut would become imbalanced? Hence, the 'lack too many bonuses' is one of the methods to balance things up.

Discuss.

P/S : Perhaps folks will realise how powerful and imbalanced the Juggernaut would be when I'm done listing out all the newly proposed game mechanics and skills. Of course, if things are way too overpowered, balancing is required.

==========================================

Lavindathar
"And I don't like the Chaos thing. Not sure why, but it just doesnt seem to fit."
Tuoba:
Aye, this would be a matter of varying opinions.
This concept class Juggernaut is inspired by the Marvel Super Villain - Cain Marko aka The Juggernaut.
External Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut_(comics)
http://www.marveldirectory.com/indiv...juggernaut.htm
http://www.thejuggernaut.means.it/
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotli...=10&fldAuto=96
http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/x-men/juggernaut.html

Quote:

infused with the power of the Ruby Gem of Cyttorak that gives him immeasurable strength and endurance, a massive indestructible body reinforced by an inertia-canceling force field, and an enchantment that renders him virtually unstoppable once in motion

As for how I would translate it into the world of Guild Wars, read the 'Lore' part of the original post in this topic of discussion.

==========================================

shrouded^god:
"im leaning towards a glove"
Tuoba:
But the glove is already part of the 5-piece body armor.

==========================================

Updates:
- added new game mechanics : Grab, Toss
- added new skills: Leap Attack, Leap

LiamR · Oct 03, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Apart from the fact this is way too powerful, pointless, unbalanced rip off from somehwere else ive ever seen.. good job. -.-