Curse

Two April Mornings · Oct 17, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52

A well articulated non-flammable post with interesting and true points!

I like! [Borat voice]

Truly, some of these things need to be addressed, especially the z-axis and pathing.

broodijzer · Oct 17, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

/signed. I expected just another rant with this topic, but it actually has good points.

Gr3g, if Anet developers see this, they know people actually care about it. If no one talks about it, they aren't bothered to fix it.

Matsumi · Oct 17, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

/signed

Makes it very, very annoying to play a warrior and be body blocked by everything and anything in your way to make you stop attacking or unable to attack. Sitting around looking like I have my thumb up my ass, when I'm supposed to be doing something doesn't look good in groups either. Makes me almost not want to be in groups with pets, minions, or that powder keg guy in the final assault quest, lol. Body blocking me from underneath bridges is weird too, and even attacking something through a bridge.

BSSuperman · Oct 17, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

OK so opinions about the thread's usefulness aside and whether or not the thread can solve the problems, getting back on topic, I dont like the fact that in Sorrow's Furnace when I enter some of the rooms and I have bridges over me that the enemies can start bashing down on me and I cant do squiddly squat about it (I only have my Warrior at SF atm) Also in Factions just after you get Senji Cornor and you're going for the Tahnakai Temple (or Ghial farming whatever tickles your fancy) that first bridge you come across, when ever there is a battle there (usually with that Acolyte dude) if Im more than 20 metres (in game metres

) away then everyone disappears. Is that just my bug or has anyone else seen (or not seen) that?

XvArchonvX · Oct 17, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

While I would like to see the suggested problems fixed, I don't believe these are as simple as other problems to correct. Many of the times when you pathway is blocked, it is due to the nature of the AI itself. Pets and henchmen are supposed to body block and they are instructed to move around relatively random sometimes. I've never seen someone get permanently stuck from this, but only temporarily blocked, so this is a minor nuisance at best in my book. The coding that would be necessary to fix this would likely have to change some of the most basic AI rules which could entail many unintended side effects meaning that extensive testing would be needed and the end result may not merit the change.

I will argue against times when people get stuck completely in the terrain since that glitch is indeed a crippling one and could be fixed by an option to have your character teleported to a location if this happens.

Spell animations would likely take a lot of time out of the programmers time to fix since either the spell radius would have to be changed (which would not happen since it was already chosen to be a certain size for balance issues) or the animation would have to be changed. To do this it would likely take a lot of time that could instead be devoted to fixing more important/crippling problems or to working on Nightfall in order to make sure it is the best product possible when released.

If these problems could be fixed easily, I'd be all for it, but I have a feeling there's "lazy programmers" is an overly pessimistic, overly simplistic blame for problems that are more complex roots than may be understood for those who do not spend their lives programming computer games.

Myria · Oct 17, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSSuperman

Also in Factions just after you get Senji Cornor and you're going for the Tahnakai Temple (or Ghial farming whatever tickles your fancy) that first bridge you come across, when ever there is a battle there (usually with that Acolyte dude) if Im more than 20 metres (in game metres

) away then everyone disappears. Is that just my bug or has anyone else seen (or not seen) that?

It's not just you. I usually get about 3/4 of the way over that bridge, wait for the boss to start running towards me, then run back to the other side so that the two NPC guards will join the battle. Once I'm off the bridge, everyone -- enemy, henchie, guard, minion, and/or pet -- on the bridge dissapears, though they can attack me just fine. Step on the bridge and they're suddenly visible.

Conn · Oct 17, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

The one that annoys me the most is simply flawed map design. When you hug the wall and hit a deadend that simply shouldn't be there, thus making you backtrack. Sometimes it is only a small patch you have to go around, other times it's quite a large patch. At times they put in some sort of obstacle to block you. It's not so much pathing as pathing related. It wouldn't have been hard to curve around the obstacle from a pathing perspective when designing the map. Most likely they put in all the objects in a very late stage and not check if it would block people.

Fixing it now would cause quite a few problems one might simply be, the inability to complete cartography title. But I do hope they will learn to use curves instead of corners when designing maps.

kirch1jt · Oct 17, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

/signed

inscribed · Oct 17, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Why did a list of problems with the game get moved to Sardelac? I didn't make any suggestions or list any new ideas. No chance of seeing Gaile respond to this thread now.

Knight Othin Of War · Oct 17, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

thats unless somebody sends her an e-mail directing her to this thread

/Signed

theres also 1 thing, i've seen people being able to attack enemy's that are underneath some bridges and they are standing on the top of the bridge which i find very strange.

scrinner · Oct 17, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I agree with the Sharp corners. Corners need some work. Also the Height thign needs slight work.

teenchi · Oct 17, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

/signed

Pathing drives me nuts. Just try clicking on armor trader if you are standing in the middle hall of House zu Heltzer. You will get stuck in at least 2 spots along the way. The hench get stuck a lot in caves too.

lyra_song · Oct 17, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

ok

z-axis - Very annoying, but its part of the game's engine. A major engine overhaul is at hand here. VERY time consuming. Players floating is fine, attacking while someone is above you is ok with me too, but falling through the floor and getting stuck, thanks to a glitchy bridge is not. :[

I think this is what they need to work on the most.

Pathing - Also very annoying, but fixable. HOWEVER...this isn't a game breaking issue, and i wouldnt consider it a priority.

Pet AI - Izzy has mentioned this many times, its an issue of balance. Until they decide which way to handle it, the beasmastery line will remain crippled. But its not gamebreaking, and isnt really a priority either.

Spell radius - I think this isnt a major issue, since players who are used to it know their distance after a lot of experience. However it is still an issue.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 17, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I will argue against times when people get stuck completely in the terrain since that glitch is indeed a crippling one and could be fixed by an option to have your character teleported to a location if this happens.

Yeah it's really fun when it's an NPC, say Devonna from the Tyrian Hench team in Vizunah gets stuck in a staircase, thus keeping the entire Tyrian team back resulting in your having to /resign or die.

Kool Pajamas · Oct 17, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious

Yeah it's really fun when it's an NPC, say Devonna from the Tyrian Hench team in Vizunah gets stuck in a staircase, thus keeping the entire Tyrian team back resulting in your having to /resign or die.

That happened to me last night but it was Mhenlo.

Franco · Oct 17, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I had to start a whole quest once from the beginning because damn Nika got stuck -_-

BahamutKaiser · Oct 17, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

I think we pay enough for each chapter to produce a working Z-axis. If it were 30 dollars an expansion than they could defect to the the poor excuss that it isn't in the budget to fix, but even than, it would be something worth fixing.

50 Dollars a chapter, that is how much it cost to market the original game, starting from conception, creation, and refinement. 50 Dollars per chapter is more than enough to completely redevelope the entire game from scratch and make proper height recognition, exsisting flaws and laziness isn't an excuss. And for the several chapters that cost 50 dollars, there isn't even an excuss, they just need to do it. And no it wouldn't take an entire overhaul of the game engine. Setting a height Value to each piece of ground and any objects on it isn't an outragious addition, but incase anyone doesn't know, there already are hieght values which allow rangers to gain added damage and range with bow attacks based on hieght. All they need to do is make triggers which allow players at significantly different hieghts to pass through eachother, and alter traps so they don't trigger or effect enemies at significantly different hieght values. It is an excessively easy alteration to add to the game, the actual mapping would change a bit.

Failure to process technicallities from the start isn't an excuss to ignore a flaw, it needs to be addressed. And in case anyone doesn't think it can be done, note that it already is. Go to Iron Mines of Molodune and try the bonus, and notice that the Inquisitor floats over the ground and can move over other characters. All it takes is a recalibration of exsisting mechanics, not new ones.

lyra_song · Oct 17, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

50 Dollars a chapter, that is how much it cost to market the original game, starting from conception, creation, and refinement. 50 Dollars per chapter is more than enough to completely redevelope the entire game from scratch and make proper height recognition, exsisting flaws and laziness isn't an excuss. And for the several chapters that cost 50 dollars, there isn't even an excuss, they just need to do it. And no it wouldn't take an entire overhaul of the game engine. Setting a height Value to each piece of ground and any objects on it isn't an outragious addition, but incase anyone doesn't know, there already are hieght values which allow rangers to gain added damage and range with bow attacks based on hieght. All they need to do is make triggers which allow players at significantly different hieghts to pass through eachother, and alter traps so they don't trigger or effect enemies at significantly different hieght values. It is an excessively easy alteration to add to the game, the actual mapping would change a bit.

While i totally agree that this technical problem has to be prioritized, i dont see how you can call it "excessively easy". If it were that easy, they should have done it already. If it were that easy, they wouldnt let their glitches ruin PVP championship matches.

There are height values on each piece of a map, we have the ranger's height damage change to show this as a fact. This i would agree with.

But this is where the problem lies as i see it:

The maps can only have 1 height value per point on the map. This means that terrains with overlaps like bridges, and non terrain parts of the map (ramps, stairs, etc) are THE MAJOR problem.

This is why bridges are bugged. This is why you can hit someone above you or below you. If you are on a bridge, and someone is below you, its the SAME HEIGHT VALUE. This is why you can walk at a bridge and sometimes you fall through it and disappear...but keep walking and pop out the other side. This is why if you are on a bridge, you can hit someone below you. This is why if you are on a bridge, youll trigger a trap below you.

Your suggestions to fix it would fail to work because there are no 2 height values to apply. Only 1 height value.

To the game, a person below a bridge and a person above a bridge are exactly at the same height level.

The iron mines bonus boss could have merely had their body blocking turned off.

BahamutKaiser · Oct 17, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Sheer laziness is preventing them from fixing it, not ability. There are hundreds of 3D games out there, and making a new one is really just about renginering exsisting mechanics to fit your needs. The programming isn't that hard. Do not mistake procrastination for difficulty.

And because most of the spell radiuses where altered from what they originally were when the game was made, the spell animations do need to be changed, because they don't properly signify the location they are affecting.

Vermilion Okeanos · Oct 17, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Don't forget about how Canthan Pet don't grow any bigger yet the phoenix next to the emperor were HUGE, and the fact Tyrian Pets do grow bigger. I believe that need some fixing too.