Curse

Helios Skyfire · Nov 03, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

@Siren

I'm not trying to say that there wasn't a significant amount of Heroway happening before the mass exodus from HA (the second exodus, really), I'm just saying that it got a lot worse afterwards.

I was in HA on the night NF was released. I saw about 1 Heroway every run - and made it to the hall almost every run. So, in a 2-3 map run (not counting the inital PvE map) with generally 1-2 three or 4 way maps - that's 1/5 Heroway.

After a few hours, that picked up to maybe 2/5, tops.

I came back a few days later and noticed 2 things:

1.) HA was EMPTY.
2.) When you did finally scrape a team together from the people left in HA, it was roughly 4/5 or more Heroway inside.

So, did PvPers leaving cause heroway influx?
No

Did it make it worse?
Yes

Ranger Li · Nov 03, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

/signed

HA you learn, heroway decapitates skill, oh look i can put skills on my ele hero and watch him nuke st00f@@@@@ But will your learn from other players? Will you learn strategies? No. YOu'll learn how to manage hench like you do in Pve.

You guys speak as if Heroway Diversifies HA? Lol? 80% of HA is heroway under Dark Chambers, and of these teams 90% of THAT heroway runs Multiple elemental heavy teams with Searing/Old School Fire Ele.

I would LOVE No heroes, to let people actually play hard matches, and not a "Win or lose in 2 minutes flat".

llsektorll · Nov 03, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

its true heros ruined HA but lets put it at it this way... we delt with BS like this with iway now that thats dead we gotta put up with this. All i can say is what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger right? .... iway forced poeple to play better i believe this will do the same. This doesn't mean i approve of heros. I think HEROS SHOULD STAY IN PVE REALM!!!

lacasner · Nov 03, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

/SIGNED, heroes are dumb anyway, its just discouraging teamplay on Anet's part.

Siren · Nov 03, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Helios, absolutely. It has gotten a lot worse since the "second Exodus."

But really, can you blame the serious PvPers for leaving? It wasn't worth their time to continue to go up against Heroway as it became more and more prevalent, and as it became more and more obvious that ANet, as per what Gaile has said, is not going to prevent heroes from entering HA.

Serious PvPers are in it for the thrill of combat, for the challenge of facing a team of live, human opponents. They don't enjoy wasting their time slapping around NPCs when it's never going to benefit them. So when they're seeing a lack of action taken (and damn near reluctance to even consider taking action) on the parts of the dev team to correct this problem, why are they even going to have an interest in pursuing HA? It'd be a waste of their time.

So the cause of this prevalance of Heroway still is the fact that Heroway exists in the first place. If heroes were restricted from HA, we'd still have actual HA matches.

HA being dead before NF is a result of stagnant gameplay itself. The skills haven't significantly changed for a while and in turn, the builds haven't needed to change. Nightfall gave us a lot of new skills to consider. That is what ANet should be focusing on moving toward HA. Not heroes.

People talk about Song of Concentration. That's exactly what should be happening. The new skills should absolutely be implemented in HA. When the paragons start rocking out in HA with those shouts, that's when we need to see people bringing mesmers and necros with NF skills in their bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

At least now inexperienced players will get a slight taste of what they missed out on because jerks don't let them in their group. This game... It's a game. Games are meant for fun, so let the newbies have some fun, everyone should have some fun, especially those who missed out on HA for a long time, you guys had your fun. Let them have fun now and shutup.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where there are so many newcomers suddenly playing in HA. Take a look at observer mode's match selection but don't be fooled by seeing all of those HA matches. 12 HA matches mean absolutely nothing when there's likely only 24-26 players there TOTAL, as opposed to what could be possible with full teams of human players (a 6v6v6) scenario, with 18 actual human players in one match. What you're saying is incorrect, because it's not as if so many more/new players are now playing HA, due to the fact that a 6-member team usually only needs one human player. And what Gaile has said is absolutely incorrect, because heroes do not allow more players to play. All heroes do is make it so there are less human players on each team, which absolutely sucks for those who understand what competition actually is.

Helios Skyfire · Nov 03, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Well, stepping back, regardless of quibbling over wether or not whiney PvPers exacerbated the Heroway problem, we still agree that Heroway was the start, and is still the root, of the problem.

I mean seriously WTF was ANet thinking with this whole Hero thing? I mean it's a complete destruction of every Multiplayer element of the game.

It completely negates ANY need for ANYONE to every talk to another PLAYER again.

Wanna run a PUG? Why bother? HEROS!
Wanna farm? Need a SS/Healer/etc? HEROS!
Need help running a hard mission that the henchies just can't hack? HEROS!
Wanna PvP but no one will let you join a team because you: a noob, annoying, unskilled, unknown, or they're just generally pricks and you don't feel like taking the effort to START YOUR OWN DAMN PUG!!!? HEROS!

Seriously, they should just have made NF a single-player offline version of GW and let those of us who enjoy MULTIPLAYER games keep doing our thing.

Aera · Nov 04, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

/notsigned

Let ppl have fun with heroes. If you can't beat em, you should probably stop playing because you suck.

Siren · Nov 04, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios Skyfire

Well, stepping back, regardless of quibbling over wether or not whiney PvPers exacerbated the Heroway problem, we still agree that Heroway was the start, and is still the root, of the problem.

I mean seriously WTF was ANet thinking with this whole Hero thing? I mean it's a complete destruction of every Multiplayer element of the game.

It completely negates ANY need for ANYONE to every talk to another PLAYER again.

Wanna run a PUG? Why bother? HEROS!
Wanna farm? Need a SS/Healer/etc? HEROS!
Need help running a hard mission that the henchies just can't hack? HEROS!
Wanna PvP but no one will let you join a team because you: a noob, annoying, unskilled, unknown, or they're just generally pricks and you don't feel like taking the effort to START YOUR OWN DAMN PUG!!!? HEROS!

Seriously, they should just have made NF a single-player offline version of GW and let those of us who enjoy MULTIPLAYER games keep doing our thing.

Absolutely. A reasonable restriction would have been limit one to a player at any given time. That's actually what I thought they were going to do in the first place. If one player can only bring one hero, then to fill a team for anything, we're at the very least looking at having half a team comprised of human players, which would be a hell of a lot better, and certainly more closely aligned with what the henchies are *supposed* to be for: filling out the team.

Helios Skyfire · Nov 04, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

/notsigned

Let ppl have fun with heroes. If you can't beat em, you should probably stop playing because you suck.

Troll much?

Series · Nov 04, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

If you can't beat AI, you can't be too great...

Siren · Nov 04, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

If you can't beat AI, you can't be too great...

Wow, man, you really just crystalized the entire argument with a superb one-liner. Trolling? Nah, you damn near revolutionized the sport.

supaet · Nov 04, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

While we're on the topic of being cry babies about how we can't get what we want, change UW so I can solo it again because getting in groups "isn't fun"... /sarcasm off

For the love of god, it's not fair that you elitiests are getting your way in Halls. At least now inexperienced players will get a slight taste of what they missed out on because jerks don't let them in their group. This game... It's a game. Games are meant for fun, so let the newbies have some fun, everyone should have some fun, especially those who missed out on HA for a long time, you guys had your fun. Let them have fun now and shutup.

dude, they have hero's battle.
What's the point of hero's battle now.

Running heroway in hoh is not taste they should be getting.

Using hero to get a taste of hoh is cheating yourself. Yes you get your fame, but you don't learn jack nor you would be having any fun for long.

We're not elitist, we just want the unique pvp experience that hoh offers. It's now completely ruined.

example:
all from the god damm 3 team broken tower.

Two heroway vs my human team: we got gank 12v6 because we're human players.

Two human team vs one heroway: One human team capped, then guess what the heroway team do, they go full out attack the team that does not have altar.

GG heroway. If you're using heroway in hoh, it will not do you any good. You will never have the full hoh experience. You have zero respect from hoh players regardless of your rank.

Keilious Ahruhk · Nov 04, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

I'm loving the new ability to take heros into HA, as it allows me to finally have a shot at things in there.
Before, everything in HA was 'r6+ ranger team kthnx'. Failing to be of that rank, I was bunched with a party of whammo half-wits or similar.
When, once a week, my guild was online, we'd be doing GvG, which is great fun.

Naturally I've been playing HvH when I'm on my own, and I am indeed somewhat put off by these 1-man HA teams.
But I DO like the fact that I and another guildie or two can go in and attempt some serious PvP, test builds, just about whenever we feel like it.

Slawo · Nov 04, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

/signed

Thom · Nov 04, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

This isn't normal AI, this is sets of player unique AIs created frome the thousand skills currently available along with a pair of henchmen. This is also a human controlled AI which can pick targets correctly call retreats and plan spikes. Hero teams work as a unit without worrying about communication. In PvE heros are more reliable than many PuGs. In PvP, my teams always played carefully against henchway because if you let your guard down they'll kill you with focus fire.

One of these days a one player Tombs team is going to hold HoH and I'll be laughing it up. No one ever wanted to admit that they lost to IWAY, yet someone had have been getting owned for those groups to continue as they did. Keeping Tombs a player only affair promotes community and kills some of the monotony.

Culture shock post-- your idea does not apply since there is no existing culture and we the people that make up the culture have some choice in the matter. Several times at the players request, A-net has changed something. Your thinking we should have just accepted all the shortcomings of the game. Culture shock is going from Tombs to GvG and back, what currently is occurring is a huge demographic shift in those participating in Tombs-- hardly culture shock.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 04, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

The solution is simple. Make Heroes Acsent like Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry, and Arenas... No henchmen allowed so thus no heroes allowed. Simpily hit begin and it will randomly place you in a team. Problem solved. OH.. OH I forgot you posers like your rankests attitude towards everyone else... yea I guess there is no pleasing you then... so nvm... /sarcasm off...

LMAO, that would really show them,wouldn't it? Now, you can't prepare for anything, but to fight for your own life, or get owned.

That's funny stuff.

100k to the guy that gets that done

Owned Elitists at my feet...PRICELESS!

shardfenix · Nov 04, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

or...nerf fire eles with their 119 and 147 damage skills for <= 1 cast time.

I wouldn't say you suck if you can;t beat heroway...Anyone with a brain can control two to three heroes as well as themselves. I beat lots of good teams while using searing flames the past few days.

BTW i decided that I am elitist, apologize or my haxing tiger shall devour you!!! Then I'll join your group because no rank 9 players HA anymore.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 04, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Culture shock? Now that I think of it, seriously, it can be somewhat considered in that light.

The PvPers are a GW sub culture, in the sense that they stay amongst themselves, appear xenophobic at times,and will constantly go into tirades about being"Leet". If their culture as a whole feels threatened, then won't they all retaliate against the encrouching insurgents?

GW may not be considered a "Culture" in the global dynamic sense of the term, but within GW,PvPers can be, hence the thought of culture shock can be made relevant when applying a PvE scenario forcibly upon them.

Forced to deal with that which most look upon in that sub culture as being inferior, they take action to be against said action.

But,if they are proved to be the inferior, then what do they do?...Cry to their respective mommies about the game is garbage for doing what they did.

The Elitism is what caused this, and it won't end until the Elitism stops.

Thom · Nov 04, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

What exactly is elitist about wanting to play against more than one actual player in online PvP?

Retniwreven · Nov 04, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

First off, /notsigned

I find this thread hilarious. You feel challenged and threatened because a couple of NPC heroes and one person can beat you? Learn to play, please.

Anyways, someone will flame me for that, but seriously. If you want people to stop using heroes, give them a reason. Invite them into your group. I see no reason for someone to wait for a group of other people their rank when they can simply load up some heroes and go.

If you're going to be elitist about rank, I see no reason for us, the unranked/low ranked, to respect anything you have to say.